Sensuki's Suggestions #030: General UI Suggestions Nov 2014

[Sensuki]

Following on from my v333 Version Review, here is my General UI Suggestions video for this month and this patch. It includes a few new things but also many things that I've mentioned from my previous version reviews.

I did the legend in youtube for all of the different points as well, so you can click on them on the video details to jump to each bit. Hopefully some of these will make it onto Obsidian's feature list that gets unlocked soon.

Let me know what you think and chip in if you agree with any of the requests

 

Legend

00:00 Intro

00:53 Skippable Intros / Remove Intros

1:41 Change Movement Indicator to Targeting Reticle

3:05 Portrait Area

4:38 Decorative Health Bars

5:07 Status Effect Boxes - Revert to v257 style

6:55 Move party combat huds to portrait area

8:47 Split functions from the TAB key

9:27 Make holding TAB on the UI have no effect on the game world

10:37 Right mouse cancel move

12:03 Remove tooltip delay doesn't work on the Loot UI

12:48 Right click move doesn't behave properly

13:53 Can't control unselect all of your units

15:11 Make Shader Highlighting an option

16:17 Make Backer Icons an option

18:08 Selection Circle Granularity Slider

19:23 Combat Log

21:19 Change NPC selection circle color for Colorblind Mode Off

23:18 Active speaking characters should pulse white

24:20 Mousing over a targeted character breaks the targeting reticle

25:18 Range Finder for AoE spells

26:15 More Audio Sliders for different types of Audio sounds

27:32 Interrupt dialogue in busy state

27:48 Fix AoE Targeting Reticle Speed

28:34 Range Finder for AoE and Cone Spells

30:00 Critical Hit Screen Shake should be an option

30:22 Remove tooltip delay should work in the Inventory

31:08 Separate sliders for In-game Tooltips and HUD Tooltips

31:58 Make Color Picker more obvious

32:59 Fix Delay on 3D avatar in inventory - Unity issue?

33:51 Make Off-screen pointers like the IE games or make a slider to have that option

35:30 Inspect in Grimoire / Spellbooks

36:05 Remove Floating Quicksave etc text or allow us to disable it

36:44 Fix floating number position on the screen

38:08 Make combat log easier to read

39:34 Combat Log filter

40:53 Change Combat HUD pips to Health Bar

41:26 Area Map

43:06 Can't name save games

43:20 Bug with quitting the game in slow and double speed

[Cubiq]

You can use the console command to forcefully rest anywhere anytime (even during combat) without any mods.

It makes testing a lot easier.

Just open the console command with ` key, press enter and type

Rest

[Sensuki]

Haha of all the commands I have used I didn't know that one

[ctn2003]

I kinda miss the old UI granted it waset fully develeped and it needed some work (having a big gap in the middel of the screen) but i kinda miss it - it looked more like icewind dale. The new POE UI seems more like Temple of elementel evil?  witch i DONT this game to end up like.

[Yonjuro]

Plenty of good suggestions here Sensuki (and good call on the Dave Brubeck backing track too   ).

 

I just wanted to highlight this one:

5:07 Status Effect Boxes - Revert to v257 style

In general, if you are mousing over an icon and getting text, you should be able to see the mouse pointer as you are reading the text. A UI where you have to take your eyes off the mouse pointer to read the associated text is a broken UI. You could easily move your mouse to a different icon as you move your eyes to the text, not notice and read the wrong text. (The spell and ability selector on the level up screen is similarly broken with icons in the left window, text in the right window and a character model in the middle.) 

[Sedrefilos]

Sedrefilos' suggestions #001: Change the title of the series from "Sensuki's Suggestions" to "IE games VS PoE"

 

Ok, seriously now. Although I watch all your videos and I agree with many of your points (others I find them nipticky), hearing the phrase "in the infinity engine games" all the time, especially when you are referring to things that are common in many games and they're not IE exclusive (like the sound adjastment bar, as an example) starts to become annoying and makes me feel like all you want to say is "look, IE games was the best thing ever, this game won't be even close, just make Baldur's Gate with better graphics and we're all done here".

 

All I'm saying is that the game should better judged as a game in general and not how good it copy-pastes the IE games. I believe we all agree it has the IE feel and it is clearly a spiritual successor of the IE games with or without green circles and cross cursors.

 

Just a friendly comment on your comments.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Sedrefilos

[Sensuki]

I often use the term to punctuate the fact that if a game made in 1998 has better UI features than a game being made in 2014 then there's a problem.

 

I cross-compare the IE games and Pillars of Eternity because I believe that when people make sequels or spiritual successors, or adaptions to things they often do things a lot worse than the source material. Almost always, in fact. If you do not care about certain things, that's your perogative.

 

There were many things that the IE games didn't do well, but there were many things that they did really well especially for their time. Many of the suggestions I made in that video - such as a range finder for spells, combat log filter were not features of the IE games and stuff that were such as mousing over characters not breaking the targeting reticle all have practical reasons for being mentioned. I gave those in the video.

 

In the recent twitch stream, Jesse Cox was unsure if his action had worked when he'd selected to attack an enemy, and the selection circle didn't change into a targeting reticle because he was still moused over the enemy (it only changes when you take your mouse away).

 

You might hear that phrase a lot and you might find it annoying, but please pay attention to the words I say after using it. I usually phrase things like "this is how it was done in the Infinity Engine games, this is why I think they did it / why I think it is better than how it is implemented in Pillars of Eternity.

 

The Infinity Engine games have relevance. Many people here seem to only sort of like them but never really payed attention to many of the features in the games, perhaps only used the default options / took things for granted and many people probably haven't played them in a long time. I have and I am here to remind people (including the developers) of the these things.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Sensuki

[lordkim]

Just a OT : why the hell cant you make a kickstarter Sensuki ?? Seems you have so many ideas,   that it couldnt possible go wrong,  if you make a game you actually could deside ..


On Topic :

Like the must of your vids, and love the dedication you have.. Keep it on

 Edit :

Wha t if the game rules where  ADD 5.  edition or 2nd ediion.. Would it make the game better in any way ?

Edited November 17, 2014 by lordkim

[Sensuki]

Whether the game is good or not has nothing to do with what ruleset they are using.

[Clean&Clear]

OT (not really game related):

 

While I really appreciate your dedication and effort to make PoE a better game Sensuki, there is one thing I think you should consider about your rhetoric, and it's your usage of modding argument.

 

All the time you are presenting ideas and suggestions to make the game better (and that's great, I agree with lot of them), but in lot of cases you add something like "and if it's not done this way, i'll mod it anyway". I mean, if you add something like this, it's not even a suggestion anymore, in my eyes it's a bit offensive and disparaging the work of developers, even if the original suggestion is great. It just discourages discussion, so why not just keep it to yourself? We know you're cappable of modding it and you have a strong oppinion of the game, but in my oppinion this expression doesn't fit in suggestions adressed among others to the developers.

 

Imagine you being on the other side. You are working on something you want to appeal to your customers, and someone comes and says: "Hey there, I think it would be better to do that this way, don't you want to consider it?" and you think to yourself: "Hey, this guy has some idea, I should think about it and see if it's an improvement". However, when the guy comes and says: "Hey there, i think it would be better to do this this way, and if you don't, i'll do it myself anyway" and you think: "Why even bother doing this when he can do it himself, he is just some angry stubborn who would never be satisfied anyway". I exaggerate this a lot, but can you see the difference? It is enough to express that you don't like something and offer a solution for it, the statement that you will modd it anyway is just redundant and undesirable.

 

Once more, I don't want to criticize you, just wanted to point this out and give you some suggestion , because it disturbs me a bit when watching your videos and reading your otherwise well written and reasoned comments.

 

Anyway, keep up the good work you do for us all.

[Sensuki]

Everyone seems to have a different thing that puts them off

 

I see your point, but my videos are aimed both at backers and potential players as well as the developers, so when I make those comments it's more aimed at the players who are interested in those features. I did think about the inclusion of those comments after I recorded it, and I was thinking maybe they will listen to that and think exactly those words in your post "Why even bother doing this when he can do it himself". If I am announcing that I intend to try and mod those features if they are not present in the final game, the developers may not bother to develop them if they do not think that many people will use them.

 

Those specific comments were not aimed at the developers, but the players and sometimes it's hard to balance the 'tone' of the videos for both audiences. The devs have thick skin though, so they should be able to see past potential grey areas like that.

[Sedrefilos]

I guess we'll have two versions of the game when it comes out:

 

a) Obsidian's Pillars Of Eternity

 

b) Sensuki's Mod Pillars of Eternity

 

So... everyone can pick their favorite and enjoy

Edited November 17, 2014 by Sedrefilos

[Quantics]

Everyone seems to have a different thing that puts them off

 

...  just take the hint already !

Edited November 17, 2014 by Quantics

[archangel979]

I guess we'll have two versions of the game when it comes out:

 

a) Obsidian's Pillars Of Eternity

 

b) Sensuki's Mod Pillars of Eternity

 

So... everyone can pick their favorite and enjoy

I really hope there will be more than that. Like "Real IE like Pillars of Eternity"

[Rumsteak]

"Pillars of Eternity FPS Edition"

Edited November 17, 2014 by Rumsteak

[crackwise]

I cannot find a single point where I can disagree with you Sensuki, perfect suggestions! The funny thing is I realized how some stuff were done really great in the IE games (in terms of UI and feedback).We take all these things as granted and do not pay attention while playing the IE games themselves. You notice the IE jewel when you actually play PoE and notice the awful UI and feedback.

 

Apart from those, I also really don't like how you see a lot of info/numbers when you hover on the enemy with your mouse. Knowing what the enemy's DT is, attack, fortitude as well as how much damage you can do etc. all in numbers destroys the immersion a lot. I mean, we are not solving a math problem here. Everything should be more concrete and also easier to grasp.

 

Ideally I would prefer "light armor", "med. armor", "heavy armor" etc. as this info instead of DT values. And as for fortitude, instead of numbers: "meager", "average", "tough", "übermensch".. :D

 

I am not a beta backer so perhaps it is already implemented like that, but getting such info should also depend on a skill check (anatomy, lore, blacksmithy etc.). 

Edited November 17, 2014 by crackwise

[Magnificate]

I agree with the suggestion to remove backer NPC icons.

 

I'd also remove the green/red lines from AoE indicators. The fact that the cone or circle is larger/smaller than it would otherwise be is not an useful information.

[ctn2003]

lol the thumbnail made my day lol for a second i though the guy in the thumbnail was sensukis face lol

[Silent Winter]

I guess we'll have two versions of the game when it comes out:

 

a) Obsidian's Pillars Of Eternity

 

b) Sensuki's Mod Pillars of Eternity

 

So... everyone can pick their favorite and enjoy

 

 

I really hope there will be more than that. Like "Real IE like Pillars of Eternity"

 

 

"Pillars of Eternity FPS Edition"

"Pillars of not quite so long" (Dungeon Be Gone edition)

[Sensuki]

Blast it. One big thing I forgot to mention is they still really need to change the Attack Speed and Cast Speeds from Speed: Average into actual seconds and milliseconds.

[Heinrich Bhaal]

I want an IE clone, which mend the mistakes of the engine at that time.
No interpretation, no wannabe game, only because there is no 6 group members, not to the current adjusted garbage (Dragon Age Inquisition)
I just want a successor for the IE games, just under a different name.
Because they do not have the rights to do so.

Is it so difficult to adhere the standards of the time and only improve from here? I do not need haphazard experiments, in a game where the budget is far too low. And the developers are from the team of Icewind Dale 2, what is the weakest part. They should be out of the box. And I also criticize that the developers do not have to look in the forum Backer. Or am I blind? I've never read a comment on ideas here. Is it then our offical Troll meadow?

[Zeckul]

I admire your dedication to making PoE a better game.

[Lillycake]

It's funny to me the types of criticisms that Sensuki gets.

 

"You always compare it to IE games."  -Yeah no kidding, that's what this game is literally based off of.  (One of the few times the word "literally" is used properly on the internet.  Kind of like that mythological semicolon.)

 

"It's rude to say you'll mod it in, kind of offensive to the developers." -If he's talking about changing minor UI elements because of them not being symmetrical or controls that go against the decade of muscle memory that the games this one is based off of have given us, then no it's not offensive.  It's incredibly valuable feedback that would make some people happy, and be a change the rest of the people wouldn't notice or at the least disagreed with.  Minor UI fixes.

 

"Sensuki wants to make it his game."  -Most of the suggestions he makes are either aesthetic fixes, minor corrections to alter controls to remain consistent with IE games, or personal preferences that he agrees with should be at least optional.  In other words, he's fair about his bias and isn't acting like a spoiled child like some here seem to think, but more like a "professional beta tester".

 

The important thing about that last part is the videos are very respectful and humble, something a lot of people aren't when they disagree with someone.  Get off his back and if you disagree then let the developers do the decision making.  For each one of you that picks on him there's a lot more of us that appreciate his hard work and dedication.

[archangel979]

I want an IE clone, which mend the mistakes of the engine at that time.

No interpretation, no wannabe game, only because there is no 6 group members, not to the current adjusted garbage (Dragon Age Inquisition)

I just want a successor for the IE games, just under a different name.

Because they do not have the rights to do so.

 

Is it so difficult to adhere the standards of the time and only improve from here? I do not need haphazard experiments, in a game where the budget is far too low. And the developers are from the team of Icewind Dale 2, what is the weakest part. They should be out of the box. And I also criticize that the developers do not have to look in the forum Backer. Or am I blind? I've never read a comment on ideas here. Is it then our offical Troll meadow?

I does feel like it often but I was told someone for dev team or QA team goes through here and writes down all proper feedback and suggestions. I just don't know if that is true and how much of it do they really write down. Most importantly, we don't know how much they value beta player feedback.

Is it more used to evaluate their own ideas or do they actually think about how to incorporate our ideas and wants before rejecting them.

[Heinrich Bhaal]

 

blabla

I does feel like it often but I was told someone for dev team or QA team goes through here and writes down all proper feedback and suggestions. I just don't know if that is true and how much of it do they really write down. Most importantly, we don't know how much they value beta player feedback.

Is it more used to evaluate their own ideas or do they actually think about how to incorporate our ideas and wants before rejecting them.

 

 

 

 

I would not have believed it, you're right.

Desired so, Thought not.

I've seen Sawyer commented here in Backer forum.

 

I wish such a thing to me often.

They comment on ideas, whether it is a good idea, whether it is planned for the game, whether it is adopted into the game, maybe it is assumed for the next game.

 

I would also like that they would share their visions with us here, so I mean as a comment to an existing thread.

I mean, they why the HUD looks just tell us, or why the mechanics of how it works.

Perhaps we will then understand better where the journeys should go.

Maybe people can contribute their own ideas then on the basis of knowledge,

which then make the vision even better.

Maybe people can identify errors in thinking.

I mean, if you do something long can you get tunnel vision.

I think there are different perspectives gathered on the game.

 

To open a thread and make the effort, without anyone comment it, from the official site, it is a waste of time in my eyes.

 

 

I just want more discussions with the developers, why, why something is done. And it had also allowed to comment and contribute their own ideas. Brainstorming, mutual interaction.