Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Orogun01]

Follow up on Mattie Brice joke, IGF has asked to be removed and then this happens.

 

 

On an semi related note; what the **** is going on in San Francisco?

[Longknife]

On an semi related note; what the **** is going on in San Francisco?

 

Don't ask me. When I left it, it was all gays and lesbians and asians and disabled people and a lot of humorous attention to that crazy asian guy who protests UFOs and ****. Someone should call those guys and tell them a bunch of overly privileged white dudes making them look bad.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

#notyourshield creator on responses from SJWs.

 

Sargon's video also touched this very same issue and I do find it odd. I mean to their eyes me, as a white male gamer, am able to have an opinion. No matter how wrong it might be to them. But if a person of minority has a wrong opinion then he/she becomes a baby, someone who isn't even capable of forming his/her own opinions.

 

This is just my opinion so keep that in mind.

 

I don't think SJWs like racial minorities. Sure they're all for equal rights in theory, but they rarely associate with racial minorities. I think their general response to minorities that disagree with them is quite telling. I think SJWs see minorities as the useful idiots who must be shown the "correct" way because they're too incompetent to do things for themselves.

 

In anecdotal evidence, I've personally encountered several situations in online forums and twice IRL where a SJW(IRL it was white dudes both times, Internet I'm 95% sure they were white) told a racial minority that their view on something was wrong. I personally found it both hilarious and disgusting that some upper-middle class white dude would preach to a fiend of mine(who is Mexican) that racism between blacks and Hispanics doesn't really exist and that it could only be racism if a white person hated someone. Thomas handled it a lot better than I did, and laughed in the stupid pricks face and called him a clueless idiot. The other experience ended with a string of expletives being shouted at the SJW which would show up as a string of asterisks if I typed them here. I wish I would've recorded it, because it was funny as ****.

Edited November 10, 2014 by KaineParker

[Volourn]

"that racism between blacks and Hispanics doesn't really exist and that it could only be racism if a white person hated someone."

 

Yeah, the idea that racism is a white only disease or sexism is a male only disease is ludicrous no matter how you spin it.

[Namutree]

"that racism between blacks and Hispanics doesn't really exist and that it could only be racism if a white person hated someone."

 

Yeah, the idea that racism is a white only disease or sexism is a male only disease is ludicrous no matter how you spin it.

Agreed.

[Fighter]

So they are all hurt in their butts because Mattie Brice has been told fairly politely to not include IGF in her sarcastic jokes about being biased. Apparently that's equivalent to an attack of some kind.

 

Also what is it with these people and their hair?

 

[Orogun01]

"that racism between blacks and Hispanics doesn't really exist and that it could only be racism if a white person hated someone."

 

Yeah, the idea that racism is a white only disease or sexism is a male only disease is ludicrous no matter how you spin it.

As a Hispanic man I disagree, ya racists cracker.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So they are all hurt in their butts because Mattie Brice has been told fairly politely to not include IGF in her sarcastic jokes about being biased. Apparently that's equivalent to an attack of some kind.

 

Also what is it with these people and their hair?

 

Well she does give money to her on Paetreon....

 

Besides, Brice is a trans and minority misandrist who fantasizes about killing all men. That is pretty much the holy grail of SJWs.

 

It's also worth noting that all IGF did was tell Brice to stop trolling. She left on her own accord.

Edited November 10, 2014 by KaineParker

[Barothmuk]

Been a while since I watched her stuff, but lemme see what I recall.

Yup, now I’m responding with a near two week old memory of it.

 

She later talks about how these same backround decorations are meant to allow the player to commit violence against them as part of some male power fantasy where you can kill a woman off.

Seeing as she’s keeping her critique very basic and broad I honestly thought whole section was an odd trail to go down. I understand her sentiment that if you can do something in a game it to at least some extent encourages you to do it (games are an interactive medium) however these examples were pretty poor representations of violence against women.

 

And while it's not quite in line with the video...though sort of is...the fact of the matter is New Vegas is filled with women who are anything but backround decoration.... It's blatantly dishonest to portray such a game as misogynist.

She wasn’t calling Fallout: New Vegas a misogynist game she was highlighting what she believed to be a misogynist trend using content from FO:NV as an as an example.

 

A) Check the series, it is ABYSMALLY far behind schedule according to what the Kickstarter promised.

True yet unimportant.

 

B) She is so bias she is absolutely incapable of viewing things with a fair and critical eye.

Everyone is “biased”. She has been upfront with her feminism and is presenting a critique from a feminist perspective.

 

That’s the best you can ask for.

 

C) The time she spent actually playing these games is an absolute bare minimum

Are we aware of the time she spent playing the games?

 

For the most part it came across as if she had played the games.

 

2) She has a video on the Bechdel test.

Yeah I only watched her videogame stuff. Don’t care nearly enough to bother watching everything else.

 

You could argue her logic is sound and there's nothing misleading there, and I suppose that's got some truth to it, but I argue that this video of hers highlights one of the reasons feminism and I don't see eye-to-eye: she's essentially asking some movies and TV shows to force female characters into settings where they feel unrealistic.

Such as?

 

So far she’s just highlighted poor representation of females in games wherein they’re little more than background eye candy or a ****ty plot device to drive the plot forward.

 

It feels like feminism acknowledges "art imitates life imitates art," and thus they wish to change art in order to change reality.

I honestly doubt Anita believes changing the representation of women in games is going to have any significant impact on women’s station elsewhere.

 

In my opinion, seeing that such poor representation is present in basically every other facet of life it seems sensible to deduce that poor representation is part of a larger societal problem.

 

But in doing so, they're censoring art, and I'm not ok with that.

Critiquing representation of females in games and advocating a higher quantity and quality is not censorship.

[kirottu]

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/11/gamergate-igf-criticized-over-game-journo-pros-connection-judges-tweets/

 

What a royal mess. 

 

Also, trolling is all about getting a reaction. You don't leave once you get it. That's the best part.

[TrashMan]

Oh Mojo...you so funny. I think #FullWu might phase out #FullMcIntosh

 

[TrashMan]

Holy....balls.

 

[Chilloutman]

 But in doing so, they're censoring art, and I'm not ok with that.

Critiquing representation of females in games and advocating a higher quantity and quality is not censorship.

 

Well if you are feminist critic on feminist website go for it, if you are game developer makes games by your moral radar. If you are apolitical game reviewer and give game lower score because it doesnt follow your moral/political kodex than you are biased - thus not ethical journalist.

 

Journalists should be similar to doctors. Can you imagine that for example democratic doctor would not treat republican patient same way?

Edited November 10, 2014 by Chilloutman

[Barothmuk]

If you are feminist critic on feminist website go for it,

As was the topic at hand.

 

If you are apolitical game reviewer and give game lower score because it doesnt follow your moral/political kodex

If they lower a game score because it doesn't follow their moral or political outlook they were evidently not 'apolitical'.

 

than you are biased - thus not ethical journalist.

Literally no other journalists are held to this standard. As I suspect this is just a backlash to the raising prevalence of SJW content in game journalism.

[pseudonymous]

Literally no other journalists are held to this standard. As I suspect this is just a backlash to the raising prevalence of SJW content in game journalism.

 

 

Helen Thomas would disagree if she were still alive.  She'd also question why people are willing to continue associating with Ezra Klein, given this is not the first time a project of his has caused ethical problems.

[Fighter]

When you center on a specific product (like Bayonetta) and you appeal directly to reviewers to what can only be interpreted as a call to mark the game down. Like Anita and her writing partner have done. This is an attempt to exert control over content by controlling the review scores and publicity. This is an attempt at censorship.

[Fighter]

Besides, Brice is a trans and minority misandrist who fantasizes about killing all men. That is pretty much the holy grail of SJWs.

 

So I did a brief search:

 

 

The cyborg feminist collective have decided it was time to take over the world, and finally get rid of the male scum that crawled on it. DESTROY ALL MEN enlists players to help their cause by dating unsuspecting men and crushing their hearts and souls when they are at their most vulnerable. Feminists have to be careful though, because it is common knowledge that men are trying to force women to submit to the patriarchy and leave them in the dust when they are tired of them.

 

DESTROY ALL MEN is completed card and board game made during Global Game Jam 2013. I was joined by Jen Aprahamian (art and design) and Robin Yang (QA and design) while acting as the lead designer. I set out to make a rules-light, performative dating sim game that acted as social commentary. Players get to acct out the many common assumptions about feminism and gender equality through this satirical game. An expansion pack of cards are soon to come!

 

http://www.mattiebrice.com/destroy-all-men/

 

This real?

 

Oh, yeah, it's satire. But of course it's the same crowd who says things like "ironic sexism is still sexism", etc, etc.

[pseudonymous]

GamerGhazi seems a little too upset about it.

[TrashMan]

Oy...the kind of people you ave to deal with...

 

https://8chan.co/gg/res/477245.html

[Malcador]

Hah, this keeps on giving. So why exactly should we care if Brice left the industry ? Doesn't seem like a huge loss.

[JadedWolf]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

 

I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?

[Longknife]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

 

I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?

 

 

I can speak for myself and say the truly outrageous comments are fascinating to me, for example the article calling gamers fascist and advertisers stupid is amazing to me because it shows the level of corruption when people are allowed to say that kind of stuff to their customers without losing their jobs. And in a case like Mattie, just for the sake of explanation let's assume she's serious about her "kill all men" narrative for a second: that's fascinating cause holy balls people like this actually exist? Makes you wonder how she turned out that way. (whether she's truly like that is debateable, just suggesting a reason people might be interested)

 

  But yeah, I think that kind of stuff has gone too far lately. It's becoming problematic in the sense it's crowding out truly productive news. Doesn't matter so much here, but on KiA or the like, when I see the front page crowded with "so and so said a thing" it's like calm down guys and just keep focusing on emails.

[Gorth]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

 

I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?

I'm a bit in the same boat. Sadly I can't just ignore threads, especially those where People seem to be occasionally emotionally invested...

 

People I don't know, games I've never heard of, organisations that doesn't interest me, yet for those who can be bothered, it seems to matter enough to produce several 500+ post threads.

[pseudonymous]

Am I missing something?

 

What the Mattie Brice nonsense shows is an incredible lack of professionalism from a judge of the IGF awards.  Whether you care about these awards or not is immaterial, as those awards can mean the difference between a commercially successful game and just another piece of shovel-ware that no one has heard of.

[Malcador]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

 

I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?

Entertaining in a way to read the stuff the say. Also they are fantastic troll victims as they're easy to provoke.