Dev sends death threat to Valve CEO, has game removed from STEAM

[Valsuelm]

My opinion is that no individual should be punished(because that's what 'held accountable' is a euphemism of) for anything he writes or says as a private person on social media and the internet in general. In my mind it's no different from someone listening in on a private conversation held in a public place like a restaurant. It is something that is inherently private, but available publicly. But if your company has something like an official facebook page and you write dumb **** there in their name, they do have the right to punish you for it.

 

I dont want to live in a society where I have to live in constant fear that anything I casually write on the internet might be used against me at a later date. It might be some really stupid crap, but we ALL say stupid crap from time to time.

 

To me it's a question of freedom of speech and the right to privacy even in situations where what we say and write is technicly available for everyone to read. I know it might feel like a very un-intuitive argument to make, but please give it some thought.

 

 

How long before companies outright ban their employees from using twitter?

It's already happening, which in my opinion is a violation of both privacy and the right to free speech. What a person writes on social media in his spare time is no bussiness of his employer or that employers bussiness partners.

 

 

and then sending a death threat to the owner....

He never sent anything to Gabe Newell. All of his comments were made in his own twitter feed. Valve only found out about it when someone who subscribed to that feed took screencaps and emailed it to them.

 

 

While I generally agree with most of what you say, and wouldn't mind myself if Gabe choked on a hotdog, I'll argue as vehemently for freedom of association as I will for freedom of speech. In a free society Valve is perfectly within it's rights to terminate their relationship with the guy for whatever reason they wish. If they violate a contract then the guy can lawyer up to seek damages.

 

The guy did post a tweet, which is not the same thing as writing something in a private email or speaking in a private conversation. It is more akin to standing on a podium and shouting.

 

 

Note: I don't actually wish the death of Gabe

 

 

This shouldn't be news.

 

Twitter sucks and represents the worst of what the internet has brought us.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Bartimaeus]

snip

I think the major problem is that Spooder, (the guy who got his game removed), is in a position of power to do harm to Steam's reputation...a platform under which he is essentially subservient to. It's roughly the equivalent of going on a verbal rampage about your boss and your company to your co-workers, your family, your friends, their friends, the rest of the world...and your boss himself. Your boss, (and the company you work at, through him), having heard all of this, is understandably going to be unhappy, and might not want to work with you anymore - especially if you made death threats against him. I think this is completely justified, but hey, you're free to think what you think, too.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Fighter]

An actual contract that perfectly lays out what boths dies' rights and responsibiltiies are including what is worthy of ternmination of said contract by both aprties.

 

I meant what's the alternative to Steam. I think they are in a position to dictate the rules.

[Gorth]

Everybody should be responsible for what they say.

Pretty much this. The right to privacy is not the same as the right to not being held accountable for your actions.

[TrashMan]

 

For it to be a death threat, you have to communicate it to the person you're trying to threaten.

If the target isn't aware it doesn't count? Im going to have to disagree.

 

 

It doesn't count if it's not meant.

 

Things like that said in an impulse, for venting are not serious and shouldn't be treated like such.

 

It's bloody redicolous overreaction.

[Elerond]

 

 

For it to be a death threat, you have to communicate it to the person you're trying to threaten.

If the target isn't aware it doesn't count? Im going to have to disagree.

 

 

It doesn't count if it's not meant.

 

Things like that said in an impulse, for venting are not serious and shouldn't be treated like such.

 

It's bloody redicolous overreaction.

 

Death threat is any form of communication where another person directly, indirectly or by implication say that they will kill another person. For legal consequences threat usually has to be such that its target has reason to fear for their safety or there is reason to fear safety of public.

 

But I would say that venting or acting on impulse is not shield and should not be shield from social ramification when you say something stupid, especially when you do so in public, as most people are fully capable to control what they say and do even when they are angry/sad/etc..

 

In my opinion Valve's reaction to stop doing business with person that issues threats against their employees is my opinion reasonable, predictable and even commendable reaction. As it shows that Valve puts well being of their employees over the money and sent message that they look down bad/idiotic behavior.

 

Media's (or more specifically Kotaku's) reaction was okay in sense that they reported game getting kicked out from Steam because of behavior of one of it's developers and rights holders, but one could argue that gloating tone that they use to report it is not very proper for media outlet.

 

I would also point that developer in question did use his twitter account in official business matters for the his company and it was one of the two official twitter accounts for their company. So when he decided to use that account for his venting he was also representing his company and game even if he didn't meant to do so.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

For it to be a death threat, you have to communicate it to the person you're trying to threaten.

If the target isn't aware it doesn't count? Im going to have to disagree.

 

 

It doesn't count if it's not meant.

 

Things like that said in an impulse, for venting are not serious and shouldn't be treated like such.

 

It's bloody redicolous overreaction.

 

 

It's ridiculous to to think you can post joke death threats and not be held accountable.  You don't get a free pass to do whatever you want because it is an impulse and you are just venting.  

[Nonek]

Before I began hiring and firing I would have suggested an IQ test for accessing social networks, however having interacted with many extremely learned individuals I have come to believe that intellect is entirely removed from common sense. And it's the latter which I believe would tell you not to abuse the people who control your income, just in case. If in doubt stay silent, it lends one a dignified air of wisdom.

[Keyrock]

It doesn't count if it's not meant.

 

Things like that said in an impulse, for venting are not serious and shouldn't be treated like such.

 

It's bloody redicolous overreaction.

 

How do you know when it's meant and when it's not meant?  Who's going to be the one to make the judgement call "this death threat is for real but this other death threat was just a joke"?  I sure wouldn't want to be the person to make that judgement call, given that if my judgement turns out to be off I'd be accountable, at the very least on a moral level to my own conscience, if not on a legal level.

[IndiraLightfoot]

At a workplace, you can potentially get into heated arguments, and very harsh words can get exchanged due to all sorts of reasons. However, this is different.

The person used a number of harsh words and proclaimed them from the housetops, including a death threat in affect.

And that game dev was under Valve's umbrella. You don't bite the hand that feeds you - you just don't.

 

That's beyond stupid - it's totally irresponsible to everyone involved, including himself, of course. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Keyrock]

Let's put it this way.  If I got heated enough at my boss that I said I was going to kill them, whether it was to their face, to another coworker, or even just to myself and was overheard, and this information got to my boss, I would expect I would be fired on the spot, there would also be at least some possibility that the police would be called and I would be escorted off the premises by them.  If I then went back a day later and said "hey man, I was just messing around" the chances of me getting my job back would be fairly slim.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Im in tired&stupid mode right now so I cant contribute anything coherent right now except this thing I thought up on the train home:
 

Everybody should be responsible for what they say.

You should only be held responsible, if you were being responsible when you said it.  <---deep  thought. needs pondering.

[Hurlshort]

That's not really a deep thought.

[Volourn]

Like most of your posts.

 

 

"Let's put it this way.  If I got heated enough at my boss that I said I was going to kill them, whether it was to their face, to another coworker, or even just to myself and was overheard, and this information got to my boss, I would expect I would be fired on the spot, there would also be at least some possibility that the police would be called and I would be escorted off the premises by them.  If I then went back a day later and said "hey man, I was just messing around" the chances of me getting my job back would be fairly slim."

 

Exactly. Jokingly saying youa re 'gonna kill someone' only works if you are close with them. ie. Either friends or family.

[Valsuelm]

Jokingly saying youa re 'gonna kill someone' only works if you are close with them. ie. Either friends or family.

 

There is no universal standard. It's cultural and contextual.

 

[Volourn]

No.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Volourn: In this case, you're wrong. Anthropologists and sociologists have studied in detail cultures and societies all over the world, where death threats are part and parcel of linguistic intensifers and even outright accepted behaviour venting frustration and anger. A pretty classic example is Naples in Italy. Live there a few months - I dare you.

Edited October 24, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[BruceVC]

Volourn: In this case, you're wrong. Anthropologists and sociologists have studied in detail cultures and societies all over the world, where death threats are part and parcel of linguistic intensifers and even outright accepted behaviour venting frustration and anger. A pretty classic example is Naples in Italy. Live there a few months - I dare you.

 

Yes so we have to look at the context and the culture when it comes to death threats

 

Another issue around death threats is the view from gamers, and this applies to the Dev who had his game removed , about what is acceptable comments  in relation to the gaming industry

 

For example its become normal and acceptable for some people who support GG to make rape statements and death threats against feminists. So why wouldn't  a person who thinks  this is normal also think its not  normal to say they will kill someone at a publisher like Valve?

 

Of course its unacceptable but that doesn't  change the reality of how some people think

Edited October 24, 2014 by BruceVC

[IndiraLightfoot]

That's very true. death-threat intensifiers are more or less the norm in many online gaming communities, and even worse, if somebody reveals themselves as being female, gay or noob, some of these gamers of the new death-threatening breed keep such end-your-petty-life hate-speech up almost instinctively. Personally, I regard that kind of behaviour as a blight on the internetz. and I could only hope that online gaming communities had moderating systems that didn't allow for that kind of verbal abuse. We don't do it in the real world, so why do it in the real world online?

[Bartimaeus]

Well, actually, we do allow it in the real world, (to some degree, anyways - depends on how it's said)...just not in the PROFESSIONAL real world, and you're generally ostracized and/or banned from offended places as a result...which, hey, players and admins still have the freedom to do, respectively.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

Well, actually, we do allow it in the real world, (to some degree, anyways - depends on how it's said)...just not in the PROFESSIONAL real world, and you're generally ostracized and/or banned from offended places as a result...which, hey, players and admins still have the freedom to do, respectively.

 

You right Barti, so for me when I say "death threats and rape threats " are never acceptable I am referring to how people need to  conduct themselves in real life, not just the Internet and forum discussions

 

And the problem is people think that  " acceptable"  Internet etiquette like I want to "rape you" is really not acceptable for anyone who operates in the real world. And when people get judged, like this Dev, for what he thinks is normal comments there is this surprise from some people that he "was judged, how unfair. He wasn't really going to kill anyone, its just the Internet"

 

That whole argument that there is no need for accountability for what you say  on Internet becomes less and less relevant as time goes on especially when it crosses into real life

Edited October 24, 2014 by BruceVC

[TrashMan]

People are people.

 

They should be allowed to vent. It is harmless.

 

I never liked the term "moralfags", but it's startign to grow on me recently.

Frak you thought police!

[Kaftan Barlast]

 

Everybody should be responsible for what they say.

You should only be held responsible, if you were being responsible when you said it.  <---deep  thought. needs pondering.

 

 

That's not really a deep thought.

 

It is too! I was going for the whole "How can you be expected to accept the negative consequences of an action, that you at the time werent aware would have consequences?" that apparently dates back to the ole' moral philosophers. It's all about the idea that the only crime were punishment is moral, is one that is completely rational where the purp knew something was wrong, but decided to do it anyway. If you punish an offender that wasnt rationally aware of the consequences of his actions, you're just giving in to your base and primitive desire for vengeance... which is not what civilized people should do.

[Valsuelm]

To some a kiddie pool is deep. To others a standard in-ground pool is deep. To others, both are shallow, and some would even say very much so.

[Volourn]

"For example its become normal and acceptable for some people who support GG to make rape statements and death threats against feminists."

 

No, it hasn't. Don't lie.

 

 

"Anthropologists and sociologists have studied in detail cultures and societies all over the world, where death threats are part and parcel of linguistic intensifers and even outright accepted behaviour venting frustration and anger."
 

You just repeated what I said. In some situations it is acceptable and others it is not. Duh. It's udnerstood that in some palces and situations (like a family member or friend) that you can utter 'dramatic death threats' without it being meant and in others it is not.  Duh.