Mishandled development

[Monte Carlo]

 

EDIT: I summon thy back to the RPGcodex cave!

 There's two reasons why people may not like the place - the list of preferred titles, and the undermoderation. I prefer undermoderation myself.

 

 

The rampant Hitler-worship and Jew-baiting might have something to do with it too. I understand why you might not want to mention that.

[Sensuki]

One of the admins is a jew and uses the jewgold emoticon himself, and one of the moderators is gay openly fabulous. Everyone is fair game on the codex

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Tibs]

 

If there was a downvote in this forums, my bet would be your post would receive most of those...

I'm more interested in actual arguments than toxic populism.

 

The perceptions of the many are not invalidated by our numbers. For starters, Amazon became big because there is a huge market for good tales well told. Similarly the rest of your assertions are easily dismissed, but spending more time on detailing them will only give you an unneeded ego boost.

 

One question: how redundant is " illusion of false dichotomy"?

Edited October 3, 2014 by Tibs

[Gromnir]

"One of the admins is a jew and uses the jewgold emoticon himself, and one of the moderators is gay openly fabulous. Everyone is fair game on the codex :)"

...

 

am not certain why you think that your observations is meaningful... is probably something you has heard over and over again at codex. codexian group-think is strong. have a couple feeble dissenters actual reinforces the group-think, but the codexians don't get that either. even so, am not caring how many latino and lesbian or jewish quadriplegic moderators there is at codex. in point o' fact, is actual kinda sad that you got a jewish "moderator" at the codex given the "rampant Hitler-worship and Jew-baiting" mc identified.

 

everyone is fair game? *chuckle* fine, but there ain't nothing fair or right about attacking a person for no other reason than the color o' their skin or their religion. the codexians don't realize that bigotry chills open debate rather than promotes, and to genuine believe that a jewish moderator makes their cesspit less fetid is asinine.  

 

but to stay on topic, am not certain that the genesis poster knows what a false dichotomy is, but am thinking that the illusion o' choice is a fundamental requirement in a role-play crpg based on the ie games. sure, you only have what choices the developers allow, and those choices all is limited and defined by the developers/writers, but choice, even if it is ultimate illusory, is prerequisite in a game such as PoE.

 

oh, and am not certain why the genesis poster sees a major difference 'tween six and eleven classes. Gromnir lobbied for zero classes and suggested two as an alternative. even so, as long as the classes is relative balanced (not balance o' power, but balance o' usefulness) and offer unique gameplay, we don't see a difference 'tween six or eleven. obsidian did a far better job o' making the gameplay o' the classes unique than we woulda' expected, and they still gots a few months to balance. we didn't see any need for classes, but am actual moderately impressed that the obsidian folks were able to offer eleven genuine unique classes for PoE. kudos to the developers. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[Sensuki]

Nothing I say is going to make people change their shallow opinion about the place

 

I also think you have to have a certain sense of humor.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sensuki

[Gromnir]

Nothing I say is going to make people change their shallow opinion about the place

 

I also think you have to have a certain sense of humor.

yeah, is nothing more funny than rampant antisemitism and racism. but you are correct that nothing you say will change our opinion based on considerable observation and some participation going back far longer than you has been posting at codex. sensuki joined codex in 2012?  am thinking your opinion is the more shallow one. regardless, it not change the fact that you and other codexians fail to see that a free-for-all that allows and encourages bigotry discourages open debate. while obsidian has business reasons for discouraging bigotry, their model is the more enlightened and constructive one. 

 

 

oh, and do try and stay on-topic. you will get thread locked if you continue to fail at contributing to the thread.

 

"Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people"

 

you do realize that those is the folks who paid the 4 million dollars, yes? 

 

unclear

 

on

 

the

 

concept

 

...

 

both of you.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sensuki]

I don't care if the thread gets locked. I post there because the RPG discussion is the best there is on the internet IMO. Off-topic arguments generally get retardo-landed anyway. 

 

Not really much I can say about the General Discussion sections, they're pretty much like every other GD place on the net except with less moderation. I prefer the less moderation approach to forums in general as the users themselves will generally sort it out. I can't say I read the GD that much except for the heavy metal discussion and the TV shows. 

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by TrueNeutral
Removed inappropriate image

[The Loyal Nub]

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

 

- You focused on the quantity of the content, not quality.

 

- By focusing on the quantity instead of quality, you tricked people into this illusion of false dichotomy, that they will enjoy more content even if it is poorly realized, and in the process rendering yourselves as hardcore old-school developers who care about deep gameplay mechanics and story.

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?

 

 

- You completely failed at game development, this is not an interactive novel! 

It's a video game, put some production values in it like you did with Dungeon Siege 3. It's frankly embarrassing how you let your standards fall to the ground by entertaining this ludicrous notion you got from people when they tell you that they don't care about animations and graphics.

Don't trust them when they tell you this! 

 

 

I like that there are a lot of classes and more in fact than the standard RPG of the day. I don't think 11 classes is the problem or the size of the game world.

 

I agree that animations need some improvement and I think they agree too and I suspect it's one of the things the delay is meant to address. Animations particularly don't work well in the combat side of things and combat needs to be looked at too.

 

I also do not need voice-acting. I can read well enough. It might turn off the more ADD gamers but let's face it they weren't playing this anyway nor were AAA title buffs. The audience for this is probably the one playing D:OS right now and that game sold well enough despite not having AAA graphics (although they are better than what I've seen so far here).

 

You seem to be rather dour about this already. I think they are doing the right things. They released a beta or what they called one (I think it was an alpha) and got a strong reaction to it. They re-assessed their state of things or their perception of them and were tough enough to admit that it wasn't where they wanted it to be. I think they're doing the right things...so far. No need to panic yet!

[Labadal]

I wonder whose alt this is. I find it to be funny. Could it be Bester? I am unsure, he was a bit more amusing. With this one, the trolling is even more blatant. At least, it is getting some people riled up. The person will not be banned as that almost never happens over here. 

[Tale]

The noise quickly overcame the signal for this thread. If you want to discuss the codex, create a thread elsewhere.

[rjshae]

There's not much else of substance to discuss at this point, so the troll threads are getting more traffic than is their due.

[Sensuki]

Could it be Bester?

 

It's not Bester. He's actually been very helpful to me regarding modding.

[Monte Carlo]

Ho ho ho... emo swastika dude. How very generation Y.

[Ieo]

I'm not really bothered by your fascistic tendencies, but obviously some do like me.

What? Please, if you're going to try going that route, my opinion obviously matters infinitely more than yours.

 

 

(Hint: No, don't even try. Your vapid opinions aren't even relevant to the vast bulk of this project-that-you-didn't-back. I doubt you even played the IE games, especially PS:T.)

[Gromnir]

Ho ho ho... emo swastika dude. How very generation Y.

obviously you don't understand humor, or the codex, or... something. am not sure what the nazi iconography is s'posed to convey to us. regardless, that kinda thing is, no doubt, exactly what obsidian is trying to promote with their message board community. *insert eye-roll emoticon*

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[Xienzi]

- Too much content, do people really care about so many classes and so many plotline replays, which frankly, only the tiniest portion of people would ever consume?

 

- You focused on the quantity of the content, not quality.

 

- By focusing on the quantity instead of quality, you tricked people into this illusion of false dichotomy, that they will enjoy more content even if it is poorly realized, and in the process rendering yourselves as hardcore old-school developers who care about deep gameplay mechanics and story.

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Do you really think that gameplay archetypes can be achieved if you shove as many character labels and "unique" spells as possible, instead of just dispersing various pertinent talents and abilities, properly implemented, across 6 classes?

 

- Ask yourselves; what is more enjoyable for the vast majority of people: creating highly polished reactive classes which visually emphasize how you lead and develop them in the gameworld, or shoving as much stuff as possible so you can say that the game has a lot of stuff ?

You actually are trying to put so much stuff in it that if you remove half of it, people would still think it's an epic RPG(of course, if it actually had production values)

 

- You completely failed at game development, this is not an interactive novel! 

It's a video game, put some production values in it like you did with Dungeon Siege 3. It's frankly embarrassing how you let your standards fall to the ground by entertaining this ludicrous notion you got from people when they tell you that they don't care about animations and graphics.

Don't trust them when they tell you this! 

They're confused because they're conflating categories and misinterpreting the nature of the product.

But when they actually start playing the game and everything feels like total crap because of those two foundational components(which most people can't pinpoint anyway) severely lacking, they will cluelessly let everyone know how much they have encouraged you to make it exactly like that!

 

Over 4 million dollars was more than adequate to make an enjoyable, epic, isometric, pseudo 3D RPG with high production values. Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people; focus, polish, and streamline!

 

I agree that blindly listening to a single set of demographic can be a deterent, but the initial pitch for the project was to appeal to those gamers you call "incoherent nostalgia people", as we have so often said in your many posts. This has been stated many times, I imagine.

 

I also agree that by trying to adhere to the standards set by the old Infinity Engine games while concurrently trying to establish a core ruleset they could call their own resulted in a product full of hiccups. But that's why the community is here, no? Even you with your endless, shameless logical fallacies and ****flinging, is just one side of the criticism the game needs. Rather than aggressively latching onto other people's comments, you should probably keep your trolling focused on the game.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Xienzi

[Malignacious]

I also do not need voice-acting. I can read well enough. It might turn off the more ADD gamers but let's face it they weren't playing this anyway nor were AAA title buffs. 

 

I've never talked about this except in the sense that it needs token introductory lines when visiting shops and other NPCs, to set the tone.

So, something like in Hellgate London.

[Sensuki]

obviously you don't understand humor, or the codex, or... something. am not sure what the nazi iconography is s'posed to convey to us. regardless, that kinda thing is, no doubt, exactly what obsidian is trying to promote with their message board community. *insert eye-roll emoticon*

You're sounding a bit sensitive there gromnir.

[Lephys]

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Why not 1/3 of a class instead of 6? Clearly, more is worse, and fewer is better. That or you, alone, get to decide what's an appropriate number and what isn't. Because.

 

*thumbs up*

 

This thread needed starting so badly. Thanks for enriching my forum experience! 8D

[Malignacious]

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Why not 1/3 of a class instead of 6? Clearly, more is worse, and fewer is better. That or you, alone, get to decide what's an appropriate number and what isn't. Because.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 had 4 for a reason, disregarding the stupid decison of gender locking.

[Malignacious]

Anyway, there is nothing more to talk about on these forums so this will be my last post.

 

See you all in about 6 months.

[Malekith]

 

 

- Why not 6 classes instead of 11 ??

Why not 1/3 of a class instead of 6? Clearly, more is worse, and fewer is better. That or you, alone, get to decide what's an appropriate number and what isn't. Because.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 had 4 for a reason, disregarding the stupid decison of gender locking.

 

If the kickstarter pitch was for Dungeon Siege 4, your complains would have merit. As it stands, they have not.

And if the kickstarter was for Dungeon Siege 4, i doubt they would have gather a single million.

[Gromnir]

 

obviously you don't understand humor, or the codex, or... something. am not sure what the nazi iconography is s'posed to convey to us. regardless, that kinda thing is, no doubt, exactly what obsidian is trying to promote with their message board community. *insert eye-roll emoticon*

You're sounding a bit sensitive there gromnir.

 

lord help us. is that your response? we know pre-teens that do better than this. 

 

...

 

no doubt, option 2 was, "i know you are, but what am i?" 

 

yes, you got us. the First Amendment attorney who has been an advocate for gang members, nazis and religious nut-jobs is "sensitive" regarding your... posts. go easy on the narcissism.

 

*snort*

 

and to stay on-topic. am confused by the dungeon siege reference. "Dungeon Siege 3 had 4 for a reason." well, am s'posing that is true. there is always a reason. your axiomatic statement is hardly illuminating. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps edit: we never actual defended gang members, nazis and/or religious nut-jobs. we hasn't done criminal for a long time, and we were prosecution side back then. we "defended" constitutional rights, but not criminal defense. apologies for possible confusion.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[Skie Nightfall]

I have to say I did get alarmed with all of those stretch goals back in the Kickstarter. More classes are more complexity. I just hope OE know what they are doing, and made the budgeting correct. I do want quality.

 

A game that's suppose to be a spiritual successor to amazing games, and got 400% funding, should be on par with those games if not better. Period.

[Namutree]

Anyway, there is nothing more to talk about on these forums so this will be my last post.

 

See you all in about 6 months.

Good-bye! 

 

We get it Malignacious; you want poe to be like that living embodiment of mediocrity, Dungeon Siege 3. That game almost no one liked, and had no market appeal at all. Your idea that Obsidian should avoid the IE formula that guarantees success in favor of an approach that failed miserably already is beyond foolish.