Statism - the fundamental dysfunction of our world

[Rostere]

This is essentially why we must have governments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

 

Unless every single human being suddenly starts altruistically acting for the common good in Prisoner's dilemmas such as shared defense, shared infrastructure, et.c.. In any case, what many people with libertarian views fail to understand is that the governments as we currently know them would immediately come into existence, given they had the power to change their country as they wished. You would get areas owned by a central authority, where you would pay for infrastructure or GTFO, pay for defense or GTFO, obey the local laws or GTFO, and so on. People would avoid the ****ty and the unsafe areas and keep to the safe and civilized ones. Eventually various areas would go to war with each other, and the ones without centralized leadership would be conquered by the others.

 

You get the society you deserve. If all people were able to make altruistic decisions in prisoner's dilemma-type situations, we could have libertarianism. But to be honest, that's about as realistic as if we could program a "Big Brother" AI (or find perfect leadership in any shape) which would be able to consistently make better decisions for everyone than they could make themselves, in case we could have the perfect totalitarian society.

 

Until any of these extreme situations appear, the state would do well to try to find the balance between them: force people into making altruistic decisions when it would be rational (from an egoistic perspective) to be a parasite, and try to interfere as little as possible in mutual benefit deals between people or entities.

[Zoraptor]

Dunno if this dude's a troll, I've seen plenty of people quite seriously espouse hardline Randian/ libertarian ideals without any trolling intent. Completely agree with Monte though, one thing that unifies any and all extreme ideologies is their tendency to implode under their own contradictions when put into 'practice'.

 

But, if all this forum's 'trolls' were the same person I'd seriously suspect that it was Ken Levine trying to get inspiration for the antagonist in his next game. Libertarian, Commie, SJW (OK, technically Jordan Thomas for that one), Nationalist, we just need the Constantine/ Anarchist archetype to complete the set.

[Wrath of Dagon]

When a state refuses to even protect its citizens from Ebola, it is well and truly useless.

[Namutree]

When a state refuses to even protect its citizens from Ebola, it is well and truly useless.

Hardly.

[BruceVC]

 

When a state refuses to even protect its citizens from Ebola, it is well and truly useless.

Hardly.

 

 

Well its definitely an indictment to a countries government , and a serious one. But its not a questions of refusing but rather being ineffectual

 

The Ebola virus that is spreading through Western Africa wouldn't haven't happened in most  other countries because institutions exist that would have quite quickly put steps in place to prevent the spread. But in these African countries there is a breakdown of what most  of you would consider normal and working state departments whose job it is to address these types of events

[ManifestedISO]

You're right, but Dags was parroting his handlers' indictment of the U.S. government. Seems weird, I know. 

 

Edit: Wait, I'm sorry, so did anything come of the Nerf babe. Is that inappropriate, nevermind. 

Edited October 3, 2014 by ManifestedISO

[Hurlshort]

To be fair, WoD lives in Texas, and it's a pretty small state, so he probably already has Ebola from that Liberian guy.

 

 

Let's shut down all the airports and close the borders just in case though.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

To be fair, WoD lives in Texas, and it's a pretty small state, so he probably already has Ebola from that Liberian guy.

 

 

Let's shut down all the airports and close the borders just in case though.

I was about to point out that Texas is far from a small state, but from what WoE says I think we live in very different Texases.

[BruceVC]

You're right, but Dags was parroting his handlers' indictment of the U.S. government. Seems weird, I know. 

 

Edit: Wait, I'm sorry, so did anything come of the Nerf babe. Is that inappropriate, nevermind. 

 

Questions like that can  never inappropriate

 

I still want to pursue the relationship but I have to be a little cautious because of the whole work dynamic. So right now we are good friends and that is working fine for me.

 

She also has a 5 year old daughter who is awesome and very cute but I need to be certain this is what I want because I don't want to mess her around emotionally, I hope this makes sense and doesn't make me sound shallow?

[BruceVC]

You're right, but Dags was parroting his handlers' indictment of the U.S. government. Seems weird, I know. 

 

Edit: Wait, I'm sorry, so did anything come of the Nerf babe. Is that inappropriate, nevermind. 

 

Oh he was talking about the one confirmed case in Texas, I see what you mean

[ManifestedISO]

Far from shallow. I'm sure she would be lucky to have you. Work dynamics can be dangerously exciting, I say go for it.  

 

 

[Longknife]

 

This might open your eyes

 

 

Stopped reading there, did not click link.

 

Inb4 hipster comments about how we're all sheeple who "just don't get it."

 

If you want a serious and productive discussion, it might be in your best interest to not come off as an untolerable and pretentious little bastard.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Longknife

[Malignacious]

The practical consequences of statism. Can you imagine this happening without the theft through taxation?

When you have such a centralized entity founded on theft and violence, of course it will continue to break its constraints no matter the initial intentions and management system; be it democracy, communism or fascism.

 

Of course, these consequences will increase in severity.

[TrashMan]

 

Hey, Magnathingy, where are you on the whole Nick Land / Dark Enlightenment thing?

 

It's irrelevant and intellectually infantile. I've read enough about economics, neurology, structural anthropology, social psychology, and history to realize which things are key to a long term, peaceful, and prosperous human society(global or local).

 

1. peaceful parenting (no hitting, spanking, yelling, namecalling, everything must be based on negotiation and evidence based reasoning instead of parental authority), this is the foundation of everything. All research in the last 4 decades from many disciplines points to this. You should especially read/listen to this book - The Origins of War in Child Abuse.

You can notice this today, it is no coincidence that blacks on average are far more violent with their primitive culture of parental aggression against children and their hyper-religiosity.

 

2. decentralization, we are finally here: internet, crypto currency, 3D printing, renewable energy parity grids. Never before were such ingredients present to effortlessly achieve decentralized, stateless societies. Grave implications of the Milgram experiment (since repeated dozens of times in different cultures with always the same results) must be taken seriously.

 

3. power of the free market, with its self-rectifying mechanisms, the single force that skyrocketed our life expectancy, comfort and technology. It goes without saying that with orderly dissolution of governments it would finally achieve its full potential. 

 

 

HAHAHHAHA

 

Oh Wise One, ye who mastered so much knowledge from different fields, ye who's wisdom surpasses all! Grant us the boon of your word!

Tell us ignorant peasants how you know whats best for everyone because you're so smart and learned!

 

 

I call BS on all of your points. Especially the first one and last one.

[Monte Carlo]

He's a bot. There can be no other rational explanation. Some underground xtreme libertarians programmed a propaganda bot to spread the word, imbuing it with the warm and engaging personality of an adolescent politics junkie.

[BruceVC]

He's a bot. There can be no other rational explanation. Some underground xtreme libertarians programmed a propaganda bot to spread the word, imbuing it with the warm and engaging personality of an adolescent politics junkie.

 

" a bot "...you funny Monte

[Malignacious]

I call BS on all of your points. Especially the first one

 

Well then, you are completely anti-science, anti-evidence, anti-empiricism.

There is really no doubt about this in pertinent academic fields. The only resistance here comes from societal elements; from abusive people who themselves were abused so they internalized it and turned it into their worldview of how reality is suppose to work.

[Meshugger]

Look, most people agree that the government should only keep the lights on; as in building infrastructure, uphold law & order, national defence and a basic safety net. To what degree is of course up to endless debate, but if you wish to provide a better, or less bad, solution to these foundations, you better come up with something better than a few internet videos that tries to shame everyone except the exclusive club of randians as idiots.

[TrashMan]

 

I call BS on all of your points. Especially the first one

 

Well then, you are completely anti-science, anti-evidence, anti-empiricism.

There is really no doubt about this in pertinent academic fields. The only resistance here comes from societal elements; from abusive people who themselves were abused so they internalized it and turned it into their worldview of how reality is suppose to work.

 

 

Of course. I must be. Because your words are SCIENCE!

 

Your claims of "all scientific studies confirm what I say"... BS. Loads of BS.

I know that because I can both find scientific studies that say otherwise and because of personal experience telling me otherwise.

 

So yes. There is doubt. Tons of it. ALWAYS. Doubt is the foundation of science, not blind dogma that you seem to believe in.

 

[Malignacious]

I know that because I can both find scientific studies that say otherwise and because of personal experience telling me otherwise.

 

Wait, there is scientific research that shows how abusing children yields positive results?

[Wrath of Dagon]

To be fair, WoD lives in Texas, and it's a pretty small state, so he probably already has Ebola from that Liberian guy.

 

 

Let's shut down all the airports and close the borders just in case though.

A hundred people have been exposed to that guy, how would you like to be one of them? But I guess it's OK so long as it's someone else.

[Namutree]

 

To be fair, WoD lives in Texas, and it's a pretty small state, so he probably already has Ebola from that Liberian guy.

 

 

Let's shut down all the airports and close the borders just in case though.

A hundred people have been exposed to that guy, how would you like to be one of them? But I guess it's OK so long as it's someone else.

 

100 PEOPLE!!! AHHH!!!! I'M SCARED!!!! 100!!! ITS AN EPIDEMIC!!! 

 

More people than that die from car accidents on an annual basis, but yes; 100 people is definitely reason to question the usefulness of the state.

[Hurlshort]

 

To be fair, WoD lives in Texas, and it's a pretty small state, so he probably already has Ebola from that Liberian guy.

 

 

Let's shut down all the airports and close the borders just in case though.

A hundred people have been exposed to that guy, how would you like to be one of them? But I guess it's OK so long as it's someone else.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I've gotten exposed to SARS and the Bird Flu, given all my students spend holidays in Asia.  But yeah, it's a bit early to condemn the government when right now we have one guy who is quarantined and all the people he was in close contact are being watched and isolated.  What else are you looking for in a response to this?  Should we send everyone into the fallout bunkers immediately?

[TrashMan]

 

I know that because I can both find scientific studies that say otherwise and because of personal experience telling me otherwise.

 

Wait, there is scientific research that shows how abusing children yields positive results?

 

 

Ah..that word.

"Abuse"

No, punishing a child isn't abuse (as long as it's kept to a reasonable minimum).

Only idiots would think that a world without parental authority and a world that teaches kids that everything is negotiable is a good world.

 

So no, the studies you mention wont' cover normal parenting, they will only take into account real abuse and use it as a blanket to push their agenda.

[Longknife]

 

 

I know that because I can both find scientific studies that say otherwise and because of personal experience telling me otherwise.

 

Wait, there is scientific research that shows how abusing children yields positive results?

 

 

Ah..that word.

"Abuse"

No, punishing a child isn't abuse (as long as it's kept to a reasonable minimum).

Only idiots would think that a world without parental authority and a world that teaches kids that everything is negotiable is a good world.

 

So no, the studies you mention wont' cover normal parenting, they will only take into account real abuse and use it as a blanket to push their agenda.

 

 

 

To be fair, all research around spanking suggests it's absolutely horrible for children. Infact, interestingly my aunt apparently almost spanked me when I was 1 or 2 or maybe even 8 months old, and my mom flipped out on her. BOTH of my aunt's children ended up with some form of autism. Mind you I'm by no means implying spanking causes all autism, but I do recall encountering a study that linked them to some degree. Likewise I think my aunt is a particularly bad and drastic example.

 

   Point is merely that spanking is a terrible punishment that should be avoided at all costs and only used if everything else has been exhausted. My mom had a no spanking policy and resorted to it once when I was 4 or so, but it was just once and she didn't let it become some lazy standard "cuz easier."