Boys will be boys on the internet (<- sarcasm)

[HoonDing]

What's the solution then ?

Ban social media.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

We should ban bans.

[Malcador]

 

What's the solution then ?

Ban social media.

 

Might work out.

[Orogun01]

 

 

What's the solution then ?

Ban social media.

 

Might work out.

 

But we wouldn't have places to spread our nude pictures.

[Nonek]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-i-learned-as-internets-most-hated-person/

 

I managed to completely miss this when it was going on, but, yet again... Well done internet guys. Yet again you show the world why *feminism* (oooh, scary word) is sorely needed.

 

But hey, I guess it's just the internetz right? Ugh, goddamn...

 

No I would say it's a very small minority on the internet whom do not represent the majority, whom deplore their actions and have stated so repeatedly. Most reasonable moderates are in no way, shape or form prejudiced against women, as many are married, have female kin and are born of and respect their mothers. The issue I find disturbing is the hate and dehumanisation that the game journalist friends of Ms Quinn are indulging in, blaming millions for the actions of these few, not only is this intellectually bankrupt, it also mirrors the actions of those they are supposedly making a moral stand against.

 

Both sides to me come off as fanatics, far too invested and slightly unhinged, to the point where anybody whom is not for them is automatically equated as being against them and guilty of all the sins they can think of. It is the debating tactic of children, demonise the opposition to lionise oneself, and it just propogates hatred and group think mentality. We have seen this before many times, and sometimes it has born bitter fruit. I'm against both sides, and would prefer that we stick to facts.

 

The gaming press is in general unfit for purpose, they need a watchdog to monitor them, they need journalistic codes of conduct, they need to have some basic ethics and integrity, and they need to distance themselves from the medium they report on and strive to judge it in an unbiased and objective manner. They certainly cannot have sexual relationships or be friends with developers. That is a clear conflict of interest.

 

But most of all I would say that they need to respect their customers. Enough that they do not feel they have the right to preach at them about issues, enough so that they feel beholden to them to serve their interests, and enough so that they do not feel they have a right to equate millions of innocent gamers with a handful of radicals.

 

As for Ms Quinn, I am sorry for her trials and tribulations, but I am not my brothers keeper and I do not even use Twitter or Facebook. I suggest she concentrate on repairing her personal life, ignore the harassment while the police investigate it, and do something constructive rather than focus on the negative view many have of her for her adultery and suspected corruption.

[Malcador]

But we wouldn't have places to spread our nude pictures.

Regular mail, my good man, regular mail. But really all these "developers" and "journalists" that have open social media pages any jackal can post on should expect this when you open the door.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Malcador

[sorophx]

what bothers me is the way Quinn and Sarkeesian are being made champions, while they're the worst possible people to regard as role models

[Orogun01]

what bothers me is the way Quinn and Sarkeesian are being made champions, while they're the worst possible people to regard as role models

Proof of media bias maybe?

[Fighter]

I don't see a difference between her and Phil Fish or Jack Thompson. Gendered insults you say? Well, duh, it's the weak spot.

 

PS. People that do this are probably less than 0.5%. And anyone who generalizes "gamer culture" by that can **** off.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Fighter

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't see a difference between her and Phil Fish or Jack Thompson. Gendered insults you say? Well, duh, it's the weak spot.

The difference is the amount of coverage. Other than that, they are cut from the same cloth.

[Gromnir]

we want the last two minutes o' our life back. tried to read the linked article in the OP, but as far as we can tell, a bunch o' d-bags acted like d-bags, which made other folks get angry when they sudden realized that there are a considerable number o' d-bags on the internet... and planet earth. 

 

at this point we don't recall or care if the d-bags this time is ALL Misogynists or Feminists or Fascists or our eventual intergalactic overlord, Xenu... or is it Xeno. whatever. 

 

am recalling some decades ago, we had helped a teacher friend o' ours with her forensics team. we would show up to __________ high school for a couple hours each week and coach the debaters and the extemporaneous folks. we were in University at the time, and we didn't have much free time as we were playing sports, but we owed a great deal to ________ Young for something that is none o' your business and we were happy to return a favor. 

 

________ Young calls us up one eve and asks us what kinda car we drive.

 

"what?"

 

"do you drive a white mustang?"

 

this were the bay area, so we were unsure if we were missing some kinda weird joke or double-entendre and am certain we made some smart-assed remark in response to the question, but ________ Young assured us the question were serious. whatever. we informed her that our vehicle were a 1979 cherokee jeep held together with little more than duct tape and prayer.

 

long story made short: a member o' the forensics team, a girl with extreme protective and religious parents, were having a sexual relationship with another student, a student who drove a white mustang. the girl's parents found out from a creepy neighbor or some such about the boy and his car... dunno. anywho, when the girl were grilled by her parents about the young man who had been seen visiting the family domicile once or twice a week while the parents were away, for some inexplicable reason, she threw Gromnir under the bus. we never found out why she blamed Gromnir, but eventual the truth came to light and Gromnir were fully exonerated, but apparently we caused something o' a scandal at __________ high school. 

 

we were investigated by all kinda folks at the high school and we even had somebody from the University where we were studying contact us in an official capacity.  even after we were cleared o' all wrong doing, we still had to deal with ridiculous amount o' gossip. in fact, according to one story, we had been accused o' raping a high school girl and we had only avoided criminal charges 'cause o' some kinda technicality-- we were on the football team, so it were another example o' an athlete getting special treatment. weren't just statutory rape we were being accused o' neither. that story followed us for multiple years, and when we came back to the same school a couple years later to get our JD, more rumors had spawned, although most such rumors no longer had Gromnir as a central figure in the stories. 

 

keep in mind our story were late 80s, so the internet were mostly a tool for the DoD and professors at major universities. gossip traveled at analog speeds rather than digital, and there were a kinda geographical limit for most such rumors. clearly Gromnir's story were not deserving o' a national spotlight, so it only got barest local attention.  

 

*shrug*

 

many people is d-bags. hell, look at all the wacky conspiracy theorists we got on this board. the fact that some story about a girl somewhere got blown outta proportion and people were making her life unpleasant is no shock to us, but is not a Misogynist, Feminist or Fascist problem.  is not even a plot concocted by Xenu. 

 

no doubt after reading our post, some o' you want two minutes o' your life back. tough. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

we want the last two minutes o' our life back. tried to read the linked article in the OP, but as far as we can tell, a bunch o' d-bags acted like d-bags, which made other folks get angry when they sudden realized that there are a considerable number o' d-bags on the internet... and planet earth. 

 

at this point we don't recall or care if the d-bags this time is ALL Misogynists or Feminists or Fascists or our eventual intergalactic overlord, Xenu... or is it Xeno. whatever. 

 

am recalling some decades ago, we had helped a teacher friend o' ours with her forensics team. we would show up to __________ high school for a couple hours each week and coach the debaters and the extemporaneous folks. we were in University at the time, and we didn't have much free time as we were playing sports, but we owed a great deal to ________ Young for something that is none o' your business and we were happy to return a favor. 

 

________ Young calls us up one eve and asks us what kinda car we drive.

 

"what?"

 

"do you drive a white mustang?"

 

this were the bay area, so we were unsure if we were missing some kinda weird joke or double-entendre and am certain we made some smart-assed remark in response to the question, but ________ Young assured us the question were serious. whatever. we informed her that our vehicle were a 1979 cherokee jeep held together with little more than duct tape and prayer.

 

long story made short: a member o' the forensics team, a girl with extreme protective and religious parents, were having a sexual relationship with another student, a student who drove a white mustang. the girl's parents found out from a creepy neighbor or some such about the boy and his car... dunno. anywho, when the girl were grilled by her parents about the young man who had been seen visiting the family domicile once or twice a week while the parents were away, for some inexplicable reason, she threw Gromnir under the bus. we never found out why she blamed Gromnir, but eventual the truth came to light and Gromnir were fully exonerated, but apparently we caused something o' a scandal at __________ high school. 

 

we were investigated by all kinda folks at the high school and we even had somebody from the University where we were studying contact us in an official capacity.  even after we were cleared o' all wrong doing, we still had to deal with ridiculous amount o' gossip. in fact, according to one story, we had been accused o' raping a high school girl and we had only avoided criminal charges 'cause o' some kinda technicality-- we were on the football team, so it were another example o' an athlete getting special treatment. weren't just statutory rape we were being accused o' neither. that story followed us for multiple years, and when we came back to the same school a couple years later to get our JD, more rumors had spawned, although most such rumors no longer had Gromnir as a central figure in the stories. 

 

keep in mind our story were late 80s, so the internet were mostly a tool for the DoD and professors at major universities. gossip traveled at analog speeds rather than digital, and there were a kinda geographical limit for most such rumors. clearly Gromnir's story were not deserving o' a national spotlight, so it only got barest local attention.  

 

*shrug*

 

many people is d-bags. hell, look at all the wacky conspiracy theorists we got on this board. the fact that some story about a girl somewhere got blown outta proportion and people were making her life unpleasant is no shock to us, but is not a Misogynist, Feminist or Fascist problem.  is not even a plot concocted by Xenu. 

 

no doubt after reading our post, some o' you want two minutes o' your life back. tough. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Wow, that's pretty terrible. I'm glad you were cleared.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Namutree

[Gromnir]

we were glad too, but the facts were largely irrelevant to the gossip and the dialog our situation created. most debate were 'bout how another dumb jock were getting away with an offense for which no ordinary University student would be granted leniency. other folks, fewer in number, made it a race issue. most gossip assumed we were black as the initial gossip mentioned a football player at Cal... and then it got narrowed down to a defensive back currently on the team. eventual when our name specific got attached to the situation, it became a feminism or misogyny issue for many people who weren't sure where they came down on the odd scenario o' an Indian jock (north american indian) and an Indian girl (asian indian) as such an atypical pairing did not fit nicely within the typical race-card dialog. oddly enough, when we came back to Cal years later, the myth that survived were that the evil rapist were a rather famous black running back and the girl were white. weird. regardless, the folks who were making the event into an issue seemed less concerned about facts than they were about advancing an agenda. Gromnir situation represented a Problem and for some folks it were far better to make the facts support their fight than it were to discover truth. 

 

'course we will note that Cal were particularly fertile soil in which Causes would grow. 

 

in any event, the situation with the high school were actual resolved relative quick and we suffered very little save for the unfortunate gossip that followed us for a few years. we felt worse for the girl who had lied and brought our name into the mess. as we said, we don't know what prompted her to initially identify Gromnir as her suitor, but we were informed that her parents were very strict and extreme religious.  given our limited interaction with the girl, we thought she were nice and we couldn't help but feel compassion for her. 

 

regardless, we learned that the truth in such scenarios is almost irrelevant. many people who want to advance a cause will abandon truth when it is inconvenient.  again, one need not look very far on these boards to find similar examples.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

 

regardless, we learned that the truth in such scenarios is almost irrelevant. many people who want to advance a cause will abandon truth when it is inconvenient.  again, one need not look very far on these boards to find similar examples.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

That's a good story Gromnir and I'm also glad you  were cleared. I must say you do seem to have been exposed to some of the worst aspects of human nature, like when you use to  walk with your sister and protect her  after she was attacked at Varsity.  But generally you don't seem that jaded with humanity and that's an impressive character trait

 

 

And I agree about the truth being subjective for some,  there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't  real and there aren't  real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really  means

 

[Volourn]

"there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't  real and there aren't  real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really  means"

 

Why are yous exist and against gamers?

 

NEWSFLASH: Women don't have the corner on victimhood. Not even close.

 

Uh.. The word gamer means to game. It's you sexist racist 'feminists' who want to change the meaning.

 

Then again, you have no problems whatsoever when a guy is 'victimized'. Not a peep out of you, but when a woman is attacked youc ome to ehr rescue because you are sexist against women and believe they are weak and pathetic and should be treated like children.

 

ME? I treat women like grownups, and believe they can take care of themselves.

 

If someone seriously threatened Zoe with rape and violence, she can report them to the police and they can be dealt with just like any other situation.

 

Then again feminists liek you and Zoe don't mind it if guys get raped or have violence done to them. No big deal, right? RIGHT.

[Bryy]

Is bashing on Quinn really bashing on gender equality ? You can hate a woman, after all.

Have you been following this story at all? Of course it is. Quinn is just the Fall Guy. There are recorded images of 4chan strategizing on how to make this look bad for all women everywhere. It's basically the same thing as cops goading blacks into attacking so they can arrest them.

[HoonDing]

It's just the Patriarchy thread spilling out.

[Starwars]

 

 

 

Yeah, sure, the things that happened to her aren't ok, there, done, let's get back to the issue at hand... no wait, apparently we also need articles from the gaming media labelling all gamers white misogynist male scum, and apparently it isn't okay to be against those articles, or anything Zoe Quinn has done, otherwise you support the threats, despite stating you don't. There is absolutely nothing that can be done to stop the threats that isn't illegal, most statements on our side of the fence quick and offhandedly state they don't support the threats at their start, thus we might as well talk about the issues with game journalism and corruption, and not circlejerk about how sad it is that Zoe Quinn got threatened, despite the fact that other people are getting just as harrassed, if not more, on our side of the fence, and those other people want the discussion to keep going. There is only so much speaking out you can do, there is no point repeating "What happened to Zoe Quinn is bad" over and over, and doing so would be a massive waste of time.

 

Do you really not have better things to condemn than some threats a person recieved?

 

And yeah, this topic has been discussed to hell and back.

 

 

In my world I can say that I don't condone whatever Quinn has done to others to harass them (though I have not read up on it and so I can't comment specifically on that), and at the same time say that I find what others has done to Quinn to be horrible. You however dismiss what's been done by saying "yeah sure ít's not right, ANYWAYS...", and moving on to a discussion which in my mind has nothing much to do this woman being subjected to threats of rape amongst other things.  Because whatever she has done, it still does not freaking warrant the kind of things described in the article. Instead the terrible thing is all those poor male gamers who are now called misogynist.

 

You don't need to talk to me about gaming journalism, I think it's in a *horrendous* state, hence I avoid it most of the time. If Quinn is to blame for doing something that further weakens the  awful state it is in, then yes, that's certainly awful. And still a separate discussion. Each time you bring it up it turns the discussion around to something else, and the continued attempts at doing so makes it seem like you have an agenda against her to the point where it's fine dismissing what's been done to her.

 

And no, I would certainly not saying that talking about how internet threats and the other stuff is a "waste of time". You may certainly think so for yourself, and very possibly the majority on this board as well. But there are plenty of people who are not so submerged in the mechanics of Internet forums, and/or younger people who reads this stuff. With risk of being a "moralist", it is the same as elsewhere in life, everyone helps set standards for what is right and what is not. The internet is a way more extreme and difficult thing because of the anonymous element but it works in similar ways. Just as one should obviously bring out Quinn's wrongdoings, one should be very clear to point out that, no, even with those things in mind it is still not OK in any way whatsoever because that kind of attitude could easily spill over to other people. It is not a way to "solve the internet problems" in case anyone wants to point that out, I'm well aware thanks.

 

And I have many things to do beside condemn threats. As you may know, a forum isn't a way of life. Do you not have better things to do than to talk about gaming journalism in a thread which was not about it? Do you not have better things to do than to educate me that there better ways to spend my time? Do you not have anything better to do with your life than to spend it on an internet forum in the first place? Meaningless questions. Nobody forced you to come and talk about it in this thread, especially if you feel that it's already been discussed to hell and back. Yet you decided to take the time out of your meaningful life to come in and talk about it again.

 

I have no interest in partaking what I'm sure is a full-on internet war between the Zoeists and the opposition and so perhaps this discussion we have is kinda pointless. I'm sure there are plenty idiots found on either side who cross the line in every way imagineable. This thread was about what happened in the link I posted. Not some "us and them" thing, but apparently that had already taken root in discussions in the past here. I've missed that and I do apologize if this thread was redundant, but the simple fact is that I feel that crap described in the OP is not OK in any way whatsoever and I wanted to vent my frustration with that. Because it happens over and over on oh-so-many levels in society.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Starwars

[Gorth]

regardless, we learned that the truth in such scenarios is almost irrelevant. many people who want to advance a cause will abandon truth when it is inconvenient.

A bloody shame that I already got a signature...

[Malcador]

Have you been following this story at all? Of course it is. Quinn is just the Fall Guy. There are recorded images of 4chan strategizing on how to make this look bad for all women everywhere. It's basically the same thing as cops goading blacks into attacking so they can arrest them.

 

And again how is this a campaign against gender equality ? It's a concept.

 

And I agree about the truth being subjective for some,  there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't  real and there aren't  real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really  means

Still rolling with this, eh ? Kind of funny to see someone argue a word means something else than what was written. Well, at least you've not caught on to the 'wrong side of history' talking point. Quinn's nothing special, so if people want to be skeptical of her writing a naturally biased article, big deal. Well, other than people like you when it comes to women, anyway.

 

Also https://archive.today/BQbD7

 

Polygon didn't get the "listen and believe" memo about women it seems.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

And I agree about the truth being subjective for some,  there are several people on this forum who are desperate to believe and convince themselves that the cause for gender equality isn't  real and there aren't  real instances of sexism and misogyny that exist in society and in gaming culture. So for example this article about Zoe Quinn and how she was victimised is automatically dismissed and excuses are made for how people treated her because it doesn't suit there narrative. Also despite the fact that " gamers" doesn't mean all gamers people just continue to give there own definition of the word and express "outrage" and "anger" . They aren't interested in the what the word really  means

Still rolling with this, eh ? Kind of funny to see someone argue a word means something else than what was written. Well, at least you've not caught on to the 'wrong side of history' talking point. Quinn's nothing special, so if people want to be skeptical of her writing a naturally biased article, big deal. Well, other than people like you when it comes to women, anyway.

 

Also https://archive.today/BQbD7

 

Polygon didn't get the "listen and believe" memo about women it seems.

 

 

What's your definition of the word feminist Malc?

[Malcador]

What's your definition of the word feminist Malc?

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights".

[Blarghagh]

Bruce, counter question:

 

Emmy-award winning indie developer Wolf Wozniak claims to have been sexually harassed by Zoe Quinn. He was viciously assaulted and harassed for making this claim by people self-identifying as feminists.

 

What do you think their definition of the word feminist is?

[BruceVC]

 

What's your definition of the word feminist Malc?

Well from the name, it's an advocate for women. Usually the case anyway, though these days I am told it is to mean someone who wants "equal rights".

 

Okay well I'm glad you aren't  suggesting it means a hatred of men  or the marginalization of men. Please can you explain this to Volo, he will listen to you as you guys are both from Canada

 

 

 

Bruce, counter question:

 

Emmy-award winning indie developer Wolf Wozniak claims to have been sexually harassed by Zoe Quinn. He was viciously assaulted and harassed for making this claim by people self-identifying as feminists.

 

What do you think their definition of the word feminist is?

 

Well I know what the word means, it means where people believe in equal rights for women in the eyes of society and in the law. This is of course campaigned and implemented in different ways based on the individual case

 

I don't know about that Wolf Wozniak case, do you have a link?

Edited September 17, 2014 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

Well, *-ism's are fairly nebulous, and I am skeptical of many that say it means one thing but in their practices it sure seems as if it means another.