Do you want experience from combat?

[DCParry]

 

 

but this particular poll's results mirror every single poll we've ever had on the kill XP issue since about 2012.

 

Really?  Then what do you call this one?. 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61543-are-you-for-or-against-gaining-experience-points-only-for-completing-objectives/page-1

 

The exception to the rule.

 

 

I bet you misuse the phrase "begs the question" as well. 

[Caladian]

The poll done here was also worded to make people who voted yes to grindxp to be good and those that voted no to grindxp to wrong (via sarcasm).  The previous poll in the link is worded to not sound one is better than the other.  So, this poll is irrelevent.

[Nomadmerc]

The poll done here was also worded to make people who voted yes to grindxp to be good and those that voted no to grindxp to wrong (via sarcasm).  The previous poll in the link is worded to not sound one is better than the other.  So, this poll is irrelevent.

 

The poll expresses a point that the community divided. This stems in part to how many of us feel that 'spiritual successor' phrase thrown out there by the development team coupled with no combat xp is a bad mix. 

[Helm]

Interesting to see that the proponents of quest-only-XP are also admitting that PoE doesn't resemble the IE games at all.

 

Anyway, this game was sold on nostalgia with very similar mechanics to the IE games. We are not seeing any of this nostalgia or any other similarities other than pre-rendered backgrounds, isometric view and party-based combat - it takes more than that to make a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

 

Obsidian doesn't have any interest in fixing this game anyway. They could have pulled the plug on Sawyer's terrible design long ago, but they didn't, they fully supported him straight from the beginning. Whining on the forums about how bad this game is, and that it deviates too far from the formula that made the IE games great, won't change anything either.

[philby]

I voted yes for combat xp in the first question and then 'alternative' for the second. I posted this in one of the (many I'm sure) related threads: 1) I'm happy for XP to be quest related or objective related only, as long as the majority of combat falls under an objective or quest so I don't necessarily feel ripped off as the combat is leading up to something or means something. This is probably mostly psychological. 2) And/or combat while exploring maps leads to useful or awesome treasure and items and is not just to take up space/time. This way I feel there is some reward for combat.

 

Otherwise the way it is now, if I want to explore the map and cause some lions to come attack me, I want either XP for defending myself/defeating lions etc or more than 1 lion hide which I don't think I can do much with.

 

anyway just my thoughts

[IndiraLightfoot]

philby: You hit the nail on the head right there. Having made CRPG mods myself, I can tell you that it's very hard to contain the majority of combat along quest lines in a fairly open world, where you literally can move around your party over maps and areas as you choose. Unless you've picked up a quest, you'll still stumble upon encounters linked to various quests - and IE-inspired quests usually overlap. At least some exploration xp and/or encounter xp would alleviate this gameplay-and-reward problem. All this weaving in and out with your party, which in itself can take hours of real-life time for the player, can be done without any quests accepted (I doubt OE would go so far to solve this that they force the quests upon you, via cutscenes and narrative updates). Finding crafting ingredients and the occasional loot really don't cut it as rewards for those hours, which may very well feel like the Real McCoy - adventuring at its best. Interestingly, perhaps the player triggers on those missed quests much later, and then begins to follow some quest line, only to find that most of the combat challenges are gone, and soon you'll have more or less confusing "tidying up quest bits days after combat encounters"-gameplay at your hands.

[Caladian]

 

The poll done here was also worded to make people who voted yes to grindxp to be good and those that voted no to grindxp to wrong (via sarcasm).  The previous poll in the link is worded to not sound one is better than the other.  So, this poll is irrelevent.

 

The poll expresses a point that the community divided. This stems in part to how many of us feel that 'spiritual successor' phrase thrown out there by the development team coupled with no combat xp is a bad mix. 

 

 

No, it doesn't.  That being said, why is everyone so hung up on grindxp?  I played every single BG to date.  Maybe some of the people here are the first but one of the most common complaints about those games is the grindxp.  The feeling that your char is going to suck unless you squeeze out every single xp in an area.  If you like that fine, whatever.  The main thing about being a spiritual successor to BG is not mindless combat though.  It is being an open world with lots of interactions whether it is the main story, side arcs, or just knowledge fun of the universe.  That is what made BG fun, not mindless combat with rats.

[TigerKarl]

I thought that especially BG2 had a very nice balance between combat xp and quest xp. Please go for that.

[Guest 4ward]

I voted yes for combat xp in the first question and then 'alternative' for the second. I posted this in one of the (many I'm sure) related threads: 1) I'm happy for XP to be quest related or objective related only, as long as the majority of combat falls under an objective or quest so I don't necessarily feel ripped off as the combat is leading up to something or means something. This is probably mostly psychological. 2) And/or combat while exploring maps leads to useful or awesome treasure and items and is not just to take up space/time. This way I feel there is some reward for combat.

 

Otherwise the way it is now, if I want to explore the map and cause some lions to come attack me, I want either XP for defending myself/defeating lions etc or more than 1 lion hide which I don't think I can do much with.

 

anyway just my thoughts

they have some sort of campfire sets in the game so that i guess encourages exploring an area even if you fight e.g. lions with no xp gain and no valuable loot because who knows perhaps there's a tomb with a lich and valuable items that awaits behind these lions. XP for non-quest combat would be nice to have though, it would help me measure my achievement and be one indicator of the loot value. But i think that loot in general is more of an issue perhaps than xp. E.g. I choose to engage the Ogre, take the loot he had on him, get the quest xp and get rating 'aggressive'. I didn't play the beta, so that's just my guess. Or i choose to not fight him but rather go through dialogue, get the same quest xp and get a different rating. If i want to have the loot i have to engage my rogue though. My rogue fails, the oger turns red, i have to fight him and get rating 'aggressive'. Just a thought, mind you. I also wonder what the impact of 'aggressive', 'benevolent' etc is, do i get other dialogue options just from random npcs or does it effect quest dialogue or story?

[Mayama]

Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?

Edited September 2, 2014 by Mayama

[No idea]

I think a mix of both systems should be perfect. Give a good part of the xp for doing quests, but leave something for people who like combat. I understand the "we just give xps for quests" as a way of rewarding non combat ways of making quests, but i think there should be some reward for combat. I think combat (and i am talking about non boss combat) will end being annoying if we dont get some reward for it. I think going the "just for quests" way is punishing a lot of players who like combat and/or giving a level edge to their characters.

[Helm]

Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?

Ah yes, another prime example of a backer in denial.

 

Obsidian specifically stated that Baldur's Gate is their design goal for PoE. They simply made the mistake of letting Josh Sawyer (someone who hates Baldur's Gate) design the game.

[Stun]

Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?

Interesting fact: You can grind trash mobs for XP in Planescape: Torment. In fact you can do it more than in Icewind dale and Baldurs Gate combined. Everything endlessly respawns in PS:T. Remember?

 

PS:T even gives you a portable dungeon you can carry around in your inventory. Anytime the urge to grind and grind for XP takes you, you can simply enter that dungeon and fight the endlessly respawning modrons for 4000xp each. Forever.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Stun

[Seari]

At least we're gonna get a more PS:T-like game, as in **** combat and amazing dialogue. Disappointing I know, but could be worse.

 

The only problem is that there's probably gonna be a lot of combat. Good thing there's no combat xp 

[Immortalis]

 

Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?

Interesting fact: You can grind trash mobs for XP in Planescape: Torment. In fact you can do it more than in Icewind dale and Baldurs Gate combined. Everything endlessly respawns in PS:T. Remember?

 

PS:T even gives you a portable dungeon you can carry around in your inventory. Anytime the urge to grind and grind for XP takes you, you can simply enter that dungeon and fight the endlessly respawning modrons for 4000xp each. Forever.

 

 

Can I like this 1000 times?

 

Once again people talking out their butt end.. Most people who reference PS:T have never played or beaten the game but hold it up as some kind of pillar of greatness. It's like that one RPG nobody is allowed to dislike.. but barely anyone played it.

 

I think if most of you fired up PS:T today.. even if you did play it before and love it.. the rose tinted glasses would crack.

 

Stun is right.. I'v never seen a more grindable game then PS:T and ironically it was the one game in the series that didn't need any combat or kill xp

Edited September 2, 2014 by Immortalis

[DnaCowboy]

Two pages ago I posted a request for constructive advice on how to politely approach the developers for a response to the backers position on implementing xp for combat. To date no-one has put forward any valid ideas, so please once again, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to approach the developers requesting a response to backer concerns?

[Mayama]

 

Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?

Interesting fact: You can grind trash mobs for XP in Planescape: Torment. In fact you can do it more than in Icewind dale and Baldurs Gate combined. Everything endlessly respawns in PS:T. Remember?

 

PS:T even gives you a portable dungeon you can carry around in your inventory. Anytime the urge to grind and grind for XP takes you, you can simply enter that dungeon and fight the endlessly respawning modrons for 4000xp each. Forever.

 

 

You know that grinding in PS:T is useless? It gives you nothing because fighting was so easy in this game. It was a sidenote, PS:T was basicaly a adventure game with some added rpg stuff.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Mayama

[Stun]

You know that grinding in PS:T is useless?

Oh no it's not. PS:T is the most attribute-dependent game ever created. And how do you raise your attributes? By leveling. And how do you level? By gaining XP. And how can you gain XP fast in PS:T?

 

1) By killing the endlessly respawning Abishai in the hive.

2) By making endless runs through Undersigil

3) By setting the modron cube to hard and clearing it...over and over and over

 

And if you haven't already raised all your attributes to 25 by the time you've reached the Pillar of Skulls, you can, of course, grind Baator as long as you wish. Everything there respawns upon map transition.

[kgambit]

 

You know that grinding in PS:T is useless?

 

 

Not entirely Mayama.  Grinding for xp?  Probably useless.  Grinding for items?  Definitely worth it.  In UnderSigil after the first visit, there was a 25% of a Greater Glabrezu spawning and they dropped items such as  Bell's Shield, Ring Zero and the Aegis of Torment plus two others whose names escape me.    Plus they were worth 70,000 xp @.   Once you got above level 25 (?) it took 3 to 5 GG kills for another level.  In truth the xp was far less of an issue than the items unless you were total crazy or totally obsessed (your choice) you were never going to hit the 127 level cap in PsT.  

 

The portable Modron dungeon required 50 to 80 kills for a level.  Sheesh grind there if you want but imo boring!  In fact all of the combat grinding was boring. 

 

And that doesn't mean I've jumped to the dark side on the kill-xp issue. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by kgambit

[IndiraLightfoot]

A few of the recurring reasons for quest-xp-only certainly make my hands clammy - no, make that "wringing them with trepidation":

 

QXPO: "You would just find a way to grind it, so we need to remove it." 

Me: Like the anti-save-scumming crowd, it's policing the game.

 

QXPO: "It counteracts peaceful playthroughs."

Me:  What kind of game is this? Tetris or an IE-game successor? So far, it looks like combat is the thing system-wise in PoE.

 

QXPO: "My party may prefer to sneak around some baddies, and would then miss out on xp."

Me: Isn't the obvious solution that you get xp for that action, just like disarm trap-xp?

 

QXPO: "But you get loot and exploration instead."

Me: Most of it has been crafting loot, and I don't like crafting, and loot and exploration have always been in, the last time I checked.

 

QXPO: "I like rare level-ups, so having them occur when I complete quests is much more satisfying."

Me: I prefer rare level-ups too in a CRPG, but I'd like to keep getting rewarded for what I experience, and having staggered level-ups for individual party members that take place while adventuring. Quest givers shouldn't be level-up nodes, IMHO. The simple solution that worked pretty well for BG1 (if you didn't metagame or had some windfall vs a difficult foe). I'm fine with people reaching the xp cap before the game ends. It's a sp game. Solution: Lower the amounts of xp awarded and tweak that.

 

QXPO before the beta: "It's a new thing. It's ambitious. I love it."

Me before the beta: ditto.

 

QXPO after the beta: "It's a new thing. It's ambitious. It will be alright, hopefully before launch."

Me after the beta: Who am I kidding? With no fine-meshed objective xp as replacement, I say, scrap this system! And no, it's not new, nor is it ambitious. It may be described as lazy. It's obviously very easy to simply dish out lump xp every once in a while at a few quest nodes. We ought to aim higher for a spiritual successor of the IE games.  

Edited September 2, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Mayama]

 

You know that grinding in PS:T is useless?

Oh no it's not. PS:T is the most attribute-dependent game ever created. And how do you raise your attributes? By leveling. And how do you level? By gaining XP. And how can you gain XP fast in PS:T?

 

1) By killing the endlessly respawning Abishai in the hive.

2) By making endless runs through Undersigil

3) By setting the modron cube to hard and clearing it...over and over and over

 

And if you haven't already raised all your attributes to 25 by the time you've reached the Pillar of Skulls, you can, of course, grind Baator as long as you wish. Everything there respawns upon map transition.

 

Like I said I played through it two times and didnt have any problem finishing it without grinding once. You dont need max stats to finish the game, theirs no reason to grind exept making the game even easier than it is.

[Mayama]

QXPO: "You would just find a way to grind it, so we need to remove it." 

Me: Like the anti-save-scumming crowd, it's policing the game.

Its not policing the game its making a game actually challenging, it really contradicts with how most of the pro-xp people want to be viewed. Most of them present themself as really hardcore players and dont want ****ty casual stuff in their games, etc etc bla bla. At the same time they want ways to exploit the game to make it easier. 

[Stun]

Like I said I played through it two times and didnt have any problem finishing it without grinding once. You dont need max stats to finish the game, theirs no reason to grind exept making the game even easier than it is.

That's nice.

 

But that has nothing to do with your claim or what we were discussing. You don't have to grind in any of the IE games, yet that hasn't stopped your side from citing IE-game-grinding at every turn on this thread.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Stun

[Mayama]

 

Like I said I played through it two times and didnt have any problem finishing it without grinding once. You dont need max stats to finish the game, theirs no reason to grind exept making the game even easier than it is.

That's nice.

 

But that has nothing to do with your claim or what we were discussing. You don't have to grind in any of the IE games, yet that hasn't stopped your side from citing IE-game-grinding at every turn on this thread.

 

It shows that grinding is optional, not a essential part of the game. I never grinded in any IE game ever, its not necessary.

[Stun]

It shows that grinding is optional, not a essential part of the game. I never grinded in any IE game ever, its not necessary.

Correct.

 

So then, what do we say to those tiresome Anti-Kill-XP peeps who repeatedly insist that we need to remove Kill XP in order to eliminate the need to grind for XP like in the IE games?

 

Should we tell them they're full of Sh*t because they friggin are?