A good read about physicaly strong wizards

[Giubba]

 

Creativity and free spirit are good but if they are not tempered with common sense they became silly.

 

 

.....MAGIC.  You're aware this is what we're talking about, right? Are you aware magic is a work of fiction and is not governed by the laws of physics?

 

 

Magic must answer to the law of its fictional universe and as someone pointed out on page 1 this is not the case.

[Gulliver]

Might does not necessarily refer to physical strength. In the context of PoE it might refer to the power of  your soul or whatever. The term muscle wizard is thus a bit besides the point.

 

Honestly it kinda amazes me and astonishes me that this is STILL heavily discussed.

 

Have you even read anything that was written in this thread?

[Fearabbit]

I don't have anything against physically strong wizards, though I don't agree with the reasons in the first post. It's not because they're just generally better than others.

 

I have a fantasy world of my own that I'm in the middle of creating, and I've thought about magic for that quite a bit. I think it makes perfect sense that any "adventurer" in an RPG isn't exactly fragile, and I also think it makes perfect sense that casting spells is actually physically exhausting and demanding. It does not, however, make much sense to me that high intellect should be mandatory for a wizard.

 

Why? Because I view spellcasting as a skill much like carpentry, tailoring or painting. It's always a two-step process: design something in your mind first, then make it real. The masters of their trade always excel at both steps. They have the intellect, the creativity to envision something new, something they know will work and look beautiful. And they have the talent, the finesse to turn it into an actual piece of art.

However, pretty much anyone can be a carpenter, tailor or painter. It doesn't take the first step. You don't need creativity and intellect. All you need is training and talent, as long as someone else has already done the first step for you. If you're standing in front of a beautiful landscape and you paint it, there's almost no creativity involved. If you take a Rembrandt and simply make a copy, you need talent, but no creativity either. The mental work required has already been done.

And this is how magic works in lots of fantasy settings. There's a famous wizard who developed a certain spell and wrote about it. The other wizards can simply look at what he did and copy it. All that they need is basic magical talent, which comes down to willpower, self-control... whatever abstract connection there is between the physical body and the magic they want to cast.

 

There's a popular notion that wizards are like scientists and should therefore be intelligent. I vehemently disagree. There's magical reasearch done by magic scientists who most likely are wizards. But normal wizards will take the research done by others and put it to use. For adventuring wizards, the scientist comparison falls completely apart.

 

My ideal system would therefore focus on the exhaustion that comes from channeling magic into a controlled spell, the willpower needed to make it do as you desire and the physical strength needed to contain the spell and aim it somewhere. Strength would actually play an important role, and a "muscle wizard" would be a wizard who has no trouble controlling his spells, but is very limited in the damage and duration of his spells.

I guess that a system like this would be better accepted by many, since it takes the physical nature of Strength and uses it on the spell in a physical way - containing, controlling it. The power and the intensity of the spell, however, come from the more mental attributes.

[Wintersong]

Magic must answer to the law of its fictional universe

Unless you are writting stuff like Harry Potter, who don't target action-reaction magic laws brainiacs.

 

If a magic system doesn't physically exhaust its mage users when they cast spells, they can ignore their physical fitness. A magic system that would stress the body of the magic users, would lead to fit mages. But we use systems in which learning to travel between planes require the same amount of experience that learning to mater dual wielding combat. Or where when parties rest is only because runnning out of spells/HitPoints and not because they are exhausted for beating the cap out of several groups of enemies.

[Mayama]

To summarize my thoughts:

• Might stacking wizards are not internally lore consistent.
• A system where different attributes have different mechanical effects depending on the class of your character could alleviate this problem.
• Such a system could contribute to interesting itemization in a very unique and fun way.

 

 

You want your wizards fragile compared to weapon users?

Super easy: Give all the martial arts professions a skill at lvl1 that sound like this: You deal 50% more damage with all weapons.

BAM! solved all your problems.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Mayama

[Sartoris]

 

To summarize my thoughts:

• Might stacking wizards are not internally lore consistent.
• A system where different attributes have different mechanical effects depending on the class of your character could alleviate this problem.
• Such a system could contribute to interesting itemization in a very unique and fun way.

 

Then who staffs the high-power magic research facility?

 

Might stacking Wizards aren't necessarily the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours. They are the guys with the really big fireballs.(you could even say they have huge balls which are on fire)

They stack Might, not Strength.

 

Also, your last supposition is just conjecture. Yes, a different system could make itemisation more interesting. It could also make it less interesting depending on how it is handled. Your sword is likely to just end up glued to the fighters hand till he gets something better, then discarded, unless interrupting is so important that it ends up glued to the wizards hand.

 

 

If you have read my full post you know exactly why Might stacking wizards must necessarily be the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours.

 

When you put a physical weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Might he will do more damage than that same weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Intelligence. What I am pointing out is that because Might stacking leads to increased physical damage across all classes then one effect of Might stacking is increased Strength. It may also be the case that Might stacking increases soul power or something like that and it is this increased soul power that causes the bigger fireball. I don't have any conceptual problem with that. However, because that same Might stacking on that same character causes more damage with a longsword or other physical weapon, I think it also clearly establishes that Might stacking increases physical ability.

 

I will reiterate that the only problem I have with this is that it is not internally consistent with the lore the game establishes.

 

On your second point about itemization. Of couse if the design was implemented poorly it could make things less interesting. But that is true for any and all game mechanics. Both the current ones in Pillars of Eternity and possible ones the devs could implement.

 

If you have a specific arguement against why the itemization benefits I lay out would not actually be benefits I would like to hear them. If however, the only response is that varying what stats effect what mechanics by class may not work due to poor implemention by the devs I don't believe you've made a case for why that proposed system would be any better or worse than the current one, given that the current itemization system could also be implemented poorly.

 

I would like to say that I haven't seen enough of the game to establish if is currently is implemented poorly or not.

[RedSocialKnight]

There's no reason why you shouldn't able to have a wizard with high physical strength.

 

Yes, Gandalf swung a sword.

 

PoE makes physical strength identical with spell strength. If you want a wizard with high-damage spells, you must also increase his physical damage.

[Sartoris]

 

To summarize my thoughts:

• Might stacking wizards are not internally lore consistent.
• A system where different attributes have different mechanical effects depending on the class of your character could alleviate this problem.
• Such a system could contribute to interesting itemization in a very unique and fun way.

 

 

You want your wizards fragile compared to weapon users?

Super easy: Give all the martial arts professions a skill at lvl1 that sound like this: You deal 50% more damage with all weapons.

BAM! solved all your problems.

 

 

I never said I want wizards to be fragile compared to weapon users. The only preference I have stated is that I don't want the games wizards to be anything but internally lore consistent. If the game establishes lore that indicates that wizards ability to have high damaging spells is related to their physical prowess in some way, then that is fine by me. I can live with and enjoy that game.

 

Since you and Azrael Ultima seem to be having trouble understanding that the in-game lore establishes that the wizardry profession cultivates studious, academically inclined practioners I will again quote and highlight the relevant lore from character creation.

 

 

 

 

The masters of academic magic. Wizards are students of arcane traditions that stretch back beyond the boundaries of recorded history. Wizards are a highly-organized group, often forming academies or guilds devoted to research and development in magical studies, and tend to favor environments where inquiry, experimentation. debate, and the dissemination of knowledge are encouraged. Many accomplished wizards eventually become known for their eccentricity, their egos, and their unquenchable interest in all things arcane and occult.

[Sartoris]

 

 

might 1  (mt)

n.

1. The power, force, or influence held by a person or group.

2. Physical strength.

3. Strength or ability to do something. See Synonyms at strength. See Regional Note at powerful.

[Middle English, from Old English meaht, miht; see magh- in Indo-European roots.]

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/might

 

Might does not necessarily refer to physical strength. In the context of PoE it might refer to the power of  your soul or whatever. The term muscle wizard is thus a bit besides the point.

 

 

 

Honestly it kinda amazes me and astonishes me that this is STILL heavily discussed.

 

Just goin on the record here real quick: when I mention Muscle wizards or including an easter egg of them, it's satire. I'm openly mocking those of you who cannot seem to fathom that there are other forms of "might" and "power" beyond physical strength, or that wielding a sword is all about physical strength (if I must, I'll start citing respectable and knowledgeable people on the topic of swordplay who'll tell you otherwise).

  I can't help but feel like some people are TRULY convinced that the developers of PoE are saying high might = you have a six pack, and that people like myself who turn this into a running gag are serious about how our wizards have washboard abs and beat up all enemies with their muscles.

 

 

This is such a tiny tiny TINY insignificant issue that a simple vocabulary lesson could solve, and I'm sure some of the devs are facepalming when they read these forums, realizing one of the biggest complaints isn't one of balance or bugs or animations, but of wizards possibly and allegedly having muscles.

 

 

Although I do think that this specific topic is not the greatest issues facing this game at the moment. I do believe that the problems the community is, and has, had regarding the Might attribute speaks to broader issues of game design.

 

Unfortunatly I do not believe this problem can be solved with a simple vocabulary lesson since the in-game lore establishes that wizards are studious, academicly inclined characters and given that a Might stacking wizard does more damage with a physical weapon.

 

From my previous post I see two ways to solve this issue. Change the lore to indicate physically powerful wizards are also good at the wizarding profession or allow what attributes effect what mechanics to vary by class.

 

I strongly prefer the second option, as I believe this change would potentially have follow on effects that improve itemization.

[Longknife]

 

 

Creativity and free spirit are good but if they are not tempered with common sense they became silly.

 

 

.....MAGIC.  You're aware this is what we're talking about, right? Are you aware magic is a work of fiction and is not governed by the laws of physics?

 

 

Magic must answer to the law of its fictional universe and as someone pointed out on page 1 this is not the case.

 

 

 

You're applying the rules of the fictional universes YOU are familiar with. This is a different one.

 

Your logic is basically "this is the way all fantasy based off of Tolkien works, therefore it must always be that way." Heaven forbid someone break the mold.

[Azrael Ultima]

If you have read my full post you know exactly why Might stacking wizards must necessarily be the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours.

 

When you put a physical weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Might he will do more damage than that same weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Intelligence. What I am pointing out is that because Might stacking leads to increased physical damage across all classes then one effect of Might stacking is increased Strength. It may also be the case that Might stacking increases soul power or something like that and it is this increased soul power that causes the bigger fireball. I don't have any conceptual problem with that. However, because that same Might stacking on that same character causes more damage with a longsword or other physical weapon, I think it also clearly establishes that Might stacking increases physical ability.

Who says that he does more damage with his sword(or whatever he uses) because of his strength? What's stopping a mighty wizard from using some low level magic to improve his strikes instead?

 

In fact, for some physical weapons more strength won't even help you much. Especially not for firearms. Pressing the trigger harder will just break it off. On the other hand, careful use of magic to strengthen the barrel and make the blackpowder explodier...

 

Might stacking increases physical ability, but that doesn't mean physical fitness. Not in a world with magic.

[Sartoris]

 

If you have read my full post you know exactly why Might stacking wizards must necessarily be the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours.

 

When you put a physical weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Might he will do more damage than that same weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Intelligence. What I am pointing out is that because Might stacking leads to increased physical damage across all classes then one effect of Might stacking is increased Strength. It may also be the case that Might stacking increases soul power or something like that and it is this increased soul power that causes the bigger fireball. I don't have any conceptual problem with that. However, because that same Might stacking on that same character causes more damage with a longsword or other physical weapon, I think it also clearly establishes that Might stacking increases physical ability.

Who says that he does more damage with his sword(or whatever he uses) because of his strength? What's stopping a mighty wizard from using some low level magic to improve his strikes instead?

 

In fact, for some physical weapons more strength won't even help you much. Especially not for firearms. Pressing the trigger harder will just break it off. On the other hand, careful use of magic to strengthen the barrel and make the blackpowder explodier...

 

Might stacking increases physical ability, but that doesn't mean physical fitness. Not in a world with magic.

 

 

 

Ok. You have successfully created a reason why Might stacking wizards would do more damage. Now if we could just get the game itself to give us a reason then we would have a solution to this problem. Athough it would be suboptimal in my opinion.

 

Suboptimal because that would mean that Might in the hands of a Fighter does indeed increase physical prowess whereas Might with a Wizard increases the intensity of his magic and also requires that casting classes are constantly wizarding virtually all interactions they have with the physical world.

 

I will say that I would much prefer a system like the following:

 

Fighter:

    Might increases Damage

 

    Intelligence increases Area of Effect and Duration

 

Wizard:

    Might increases Interrupt

    Intelligence increases Damage

    Perception increases Area of Effect and Duration

[PrimeJunta]

Where does this preference for making systems inconsistent and complicated come from?

[Azrael Ultima]

Since you and Azrael Ultima seem to be having trouble understanding that the in-game lore establishes that the wizardry profession cultivates studious, academically inclined practioners I will again quote and highlight the relevant lore from character creation.

Er, what? That has little to no impact on my points.

 

Besides, none of that says anything about a wizards typical physical fitness or what kind of training is considered part of academical magic. They could easily fit in mandatory physical excercise classes for various reasons.(promoting good health, the idea of Mens sana in corpore sano, etc.)

 

You can be academical and studious and work out 3 times a week easily. In fact, it's probably a good idea if you don't get much excercise during work.

 

In a world as dangerous as the one of PoE, i wouldn't even be surprised to find plenty of combat classes, particularly at a research focused academy. Better be prepared for those field trips. Then there's probably military wizarding academies as well, at least if the militaries of this world have any sense.

[Sartoris]

Where does this preference for making systems inconsistent and complicated come from?

 

That's a great question.

 

My take on it is that the developers seem to have fundementally changed significant systems we are familar with from the IE games and delivered different systems which some people (me included) are not as happy with.

 

This wouldn't really bother me that much if the game itself wasn't proposed as a spiritual successor to IE games. I would have much prefered they leave in place the complicated IE systems instead of replacing many of them with their own equally complex ones.

 

I reailze that they do not have the D&D license, however I think the developers could have put in place systems that were much more IE-like than they have done. That being said, for the most part, the art style is spot on.

[Azrael Ultima]

Ok. You have successfully created a reason why Might stacking wizards would do more damage. Now if we could just get the game itself to give us a reason then we would have a solution to this problem. Athough it would be suboptimal in my opinion.

 

Suboptimal because that would mean that Might in the hands of a Fighter does indeed increase physical prowess whereas Might with a Wizard increases the intensity of his magic and also requires that casting classes are constantly wizarding virtually all interactions they have with the physical world.

Just because they can use magic to improve their physical ability they suddenly have to use it for absolutely everything?

 

The problem isn't the explanation, the problem is in how you chose to interpret it.

[Sartoris]

 

Since you and Azrael Ultima seem to be having trouble understanding that the in-game lore establishes that the wizardry profession cultivates studious, academically inclined practioners I will again quote and highlight the relevant lore from character creation.

Er, what? That has little to no impact on my points.

 

Besides, none of that says anything about a wizards typical physical fitness or what kind of training is considered part of academical magic. They could easily fit in mandatory physical excercise classes for various reasons.(promoting good health, the idea of Mens sana in corpore sano, etc.)

 

You can be academical and studious and work out 3 times a week easily. In fact, it's probably a good idea if you don't get much excercise during work.

 

In a world as dangerous as the one of PoE, i wouldn't even be surprised to find plenty of combat classes, particularly at a research focused academy. Better be prepared for those field trips. Then there's probably military wizarding academies as well, at least if the militaries of this world have any sense.

 

 

 

 

To summarize my thoughts:

• Might stacking wizards are not internally lore consistent.
• A system where different attributes have different mechanical effects depending on the class of your character could alleviate this problem.
• Such a system could contribute to interesting itemization in a very unique and fun way.

 

Then who staffs the high-power magic research facility?

 

Might stacking Wizards aren't necessarily the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours. They are the guys with the really big fireballs.(you could even say they have huge balls which are on fire)

They stack Might, not Strength.

 

Also, your last supposition is just conjecture. Yes, a different system could make itemisation more interesting. It could also make it less interesting depending on how it is handled. Your sword is likely to just end up glued to the fighters hand till he gets something better, then discarded, unless interrupting is so important that it ends up glued to the wizards hand.

 

 

Ok up until now I have given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your objections were grounded in a desire to improve and discuss aspects about the game and not intended to simply disagree with ideas using any method you can conjure up. I'm still willing to believe that, but I am getting the sense that you want to disagree with me simply to argue. Quoted above you have offered two conflicing solutions for why Might stacking Wizards could make sense in the game. Neither of these two solutions are supported anywhere in the in-game lore.

 

So...

 

I've made a very easy to understand point that the lore available in the game needs more work in order to support Might stacking wizards. I think it is very obvious that this is the case. This is even evident in your responses quoted above, you have proposed two different, and conflicting, lore solutions that the developers could choose to implement.

 

So can we at least agree that this aspect needs more work?

[Sartoris]

 

Ok. You have successfully created a reason why Might stacking wizards would do more damage. Now if we could just get the game itself to give us a reason then we would have a solution to this problem. Athough it would be suboptimal in my opinion.

 

Suboptimal because that would mean that Might in the hands of a Fighter does indeed increase physical prowess whereas Might with a Wizard increases the intensity of his magic and also requires that casting classes are constantly wizarding virtually all interactions they have with the physical world.

Just because they can use magic to improve their physical ability they suddenly have to use it for absolutely everything?

 

The problem isn't the explanation, the problem is in how you chose to interpret it.

 

 

 

I don't know, do they? The entire thing was your idea in the first place!

 

 

 

If you have read my full post you know exactly why Might stacking wizards must necessarily be the type that also spends time at the gym in their off hours.

 

When you put a physical weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Might he will do more damage than that same weapon in the hands of a wizard that stacks Intelligence. What I am pointing out is that because Might stacking leads to increased physical damage across all classes then one effect of Might stacking is increased Strength. It may also be the case that Might stacking increases soul power or something like that and it is this increased soul power that causes the bigger fireball. I don't have any conceptual problem with that. However, because that same Might stacking on that same character causes more damage with a longsword or other physical weapon, I think it also clearly establishes that Might stacking increases physical ability.

Who says that he does more damage with his sword(or whatever he uses) because of his strength? What's stopping a mighty wizard from using some low level magic to improve his strikes instead?

 

In fact, for some physical weapons more strength won't even help you much. Especially not for firearms. Pressing the trigger harder will just break it off. On the other hand, careful use of magic to strengthen the barrel and make the blackpowder explodier...

 

Might stacking increases physical ability, but that doesn't mean physical fitness. Not in a world with magic.

 

 

Can you just please state what you are trying to say? I realize you disagree with me, but I don't really understand specifically what it is you disagree with.

 

Do you think the in-game lore establishes that Wizards constantly use their magical ability to increase their use of physical weapons? If so where is that stated or alluded to?

 

Or, do you think that Wizards training includes a significant focus on physical ability as you indicated previously? If so how does that not conflict with the lore stating that wizards are academicly-inclined, studious, favor debate, and knowledge seeking?

 

All I'm asking you to do is state your position instead of simply choosing to disagree with mine. If you have valuable thoughts on game design to share please do so. I think its a bit of a waste of my time to simply defend my suggestions against someone who isn't willing to offer their own.

[Naurgalen]

People, please: MIGHT  is not  STRENGTH.

 

If you destroy boulders with your fists in this game is not because your biceps are of epic proportions, its just that your ability to take power from your soul is epic. That is what might means. Does it feel counter intuitive coming from years of d&d? Yes, but its not a mistake in a coherent level. Think of might as "Ki", "Energy", "Presence","Chakra", "Cosmos" or heck, the lore friendly "soul power"!

[Gulliver]

People, please: MIGHT  is not  STRENGTH.

 

If you destroy boulders with your fists in this game is not because your biceps are of epic proportions, its just that your ability to take power from your soul is epic. That is what might means. Does it feel counter intuitive coming from years of d&d? Yes, but its not a mistake in a coherent level. Think of might as "Ki", "Energy", "Presence","Chakra", "Cosmos" or heck, the lore friendly "soul power"!

 

Well, thank you for pointing that out to us.

 

If you'd read the thread, however, you would be aware that no one here claimed that might equalled strength. The point of the discussion is that given that might isn't strength, what is? Is the physical body of people in this world independent of their ability to smash boulders? Will we see hordes of shaky old men rip people apart with bare hands due to their enormous soul power?

[Azrael Ultima]

Frankly, i think the best way to say it would be "Might isn't strength, but strength is Might". Neither fully excluding it nor equating the two leads to a sensible outcome.

Can you just please state what you are trying to say? I realize you disagree with me, but I don't really understand specifically what it is you disagree with.

 

Do you think the in-game lore establishes that Wizards constantly use their magical ability to increase their use of physical weapons? If so where is that stated or alluded to?

 

Or, do you think that Wizards training includes a significant focus on physical ability as you indicated previously? If so how does that not conflict with the lore stating that wizards are academicly-inclined, studious, favor debate, and knowledge seeking?

 

All I'm asking you to do is state your position instead of simply choosing to disagree with mine. If you have valuable thoughts on game design to share please do so. I think its a bit of a waste of my time to simply defend my suggestions against someone who isn't willing to offer their own.

 

All of those, though not necessarily all at once. A wizard can use his magic to enhance himself or he could have trained. Maybe he does both. Different academies may have different priorities and requirements for their students(a military academy would likely put high focus on combat ability, both magical and physical. An academy focusing on enchanting and research into "civilian" uses of magic? Not so much)

 

Your problem is that you treat these options as mutually exclusive, when there is no reason for them to be.

 

Also consider that at this point, lore is still in flux. Lore isn't some immutable, pre-existing monolithic structure. Especially not for minor details that haven't been fully explained yet.

 

Lastly, none of that is in conflict with wizards having an academic and studious mindset. I'm not even sure where you're getting that idea or why you believe it would be. It's equivalent to saying all fighters must be dumb because they focus on physical combat and discipline.

They favour debate and knowledge seeking(which, depending on the field, might be quite strenuous), it's not the only thing they ever do. And it tells you nothing about what they do in their free time.

[Sartoris]

People, please: MIGHT  is not  STRENGTH.

 

If you destroy boulders with your fists in this game is not because your biceps are of epic proportions, its just that your ability to take power from your soul is epic. That is what might means. Does it feel counter intuitive coming from years of d&d? Yes, but its not a mistake in a coherent level. Think of might as "Ki", "Energy", "Presence","Chakra", "Cosmos" or heck, the lore friendly "soul power"!

 

Ok then so when the Might stacking wizard hits a beetle with his longsword he is in someway interacting with some internal soul energy that then causes more damage to the creature?

 

Is this the same for the fighter then? It isn't his muscles (seeing as athletics has no effect on combat damage) its his soul energy. Well ok then. So given that having a fighter with zero points in athetics has no effect on combat I guess we have to conclude that in this game your body's physical ability to effect the world isn't represented by the attribute system.

 

This is the the road the developers want to take then ok. It is their game. However, this doesn't meet my expectations and I am very dissappointed with the current system.

 

As I have done previously in this thread I think there are ways the developers could alter the attribute system to resolve this problem to my (and maybe others?) satisfaction

[Sartoris]

Frankly, i think the best way to say it would be "Might isn't strength, but strength is Might". Neither fully excluding it nor equating the two leads to a sensible outcome.

Can you just please state what you are trying to say? I realize you disagree with me, but I don't really understand specifically what it is you disagree with.

 

Do you think the in-game lore establishes that Wizards constantly use their magical ability to increase their use of physical weapons? If so where is that stated or alluded to?

 

Or, do you think that Wizards training includes a significant focus on physical ability as you indicated previously? If so how does that not conflict with the lore stating that wizards are academicly-inclined, studious, favor debate, and knowledge seeking?

 

All I'm asking you to do is state your position instead of simply choosing to disagree with mine. If you have valuable thoughts on game design to share please do so. I think its a bit of a waste of my time to simply defend my suggestions against someone who isn't willing to offer their own.

 

All of those, though not necessarily all at once. A wizard can use his magic to enhance himself or he could have trained. Maybe he does both. Different academies may have different priorities and requirements for their students(a military academy would likely put high focus on combat ability, both magical and physical. An academy focusing on enchanting and research into "civilian" uses of magic? Not so much)

 

Your problem is that you treat these options as mutually exclusive, when there is no reason for them to be.

 

Also consider that at this point, lore is still in flux. Lore isn't some immutable, pre-existing monolithic structure. Especially not for minor details that haven't been fully explained yet.

 

Lastly, none of that is in conflict with wizards having an academic and studious mindset. I'm not even sure where you're getting that idea or why you believe it would be. It's equivalent to saying all fighters must be dumb because they focus on physical combat and discipline.

They favour debate and knowledge seeking(which, depending on the field, might be quite strenuous), it's not the only thing they ever do. And it tells you nothing about what they do in their free time.

 

Thanks for laying out your position. I respect it, but I don't particularly like it.

 

I hope the developers consider very carefully what their attribute and mechanics decisions have on how a player interprets what is going on in the world. Currently, I feel that the design is not intutive and does not at all feel like the mechanics of an IE game.

 

I'm principally interested in Pillars of Eternity because the developers stated that it was designed to be a spiritual successor to BG/IWD. This is what I feel like no other game currently in development is offering. Planescape: Tides of Numenera will mostly focus on story with combat being a distant secondary consideration. Wasteland 2 is turn-based and not in a fantasy setting. I will probably play both of those games, but neither will give me the nostalgia feels for BG2 like I hoped Pillars of Eternity would.

 

For me, what was so promising about this game was that it was going to try to bring back the experience of playing IE games. I can get a good story with other games (although I am very pleased that we can expect good things in this department), so I didn't need that as much. Pillars of Eternity is the only current hope that I know of for those players who want as close as possible an IE experience. That includes the good and bad of that engine. I really hope they don't carry through the system as it is currently designed as it is so far from IE that it detracts greatly from my experience.

[RedSocialKnight]

People, please pay attention to this enormous font: MIGHT  is not mechanically distinguishable from STRENGTH in any way under the game system, so although in terms of lore they may not be the same thing, in terms of practical in-game effects, any character who has one must necessarily have both.

Edited August 26, 2014 by RedSocialKnight

[Azrael Ultima]

So strength makes people heal better? Otherwise, you have something to mechanically distinguish the two.

 

I respect it, but I don't particularly like it.

Fine by me. The world would be rather boring if we all had the same preferences.