Drama in the indy gaming biz ?

[BruceVC]

 

I tried to stay away but the allure was too strong when it became clear this was an attack from some on the campaign for gender equality

It is ? Thought it was just a campaign against one woman.

 

 

I wish it was that simple. If it was just about Zoe I wouldn't comment at all. For some this has been a way to undermine feminist ideals and the gender equality movement. There are many comments similar to " this just  highlights what hypocrites Feminists are " or " this is why I don't support these types of equality movements"

 

I have to be honest I am surprised you cannot see this in some of the comments and what they are really saying?

Edited August 26, 2014 by BruceVC

[Elerond]

One thing that I don't understand in this scandal is why 4chan and other similar online communities advertise Zoe Quinn and her game so vigorously?

[Malcador]

I wish it was that simple. If it was just about Zoe I wouldn't comment at all. For some this has been a way to undermine feminist ideals and the gender equality movement. There are many comments similar to " this just  highlights what hypocrites Feminists are " or " this is why I don't support these types of equality movements"

 

I have to be honest I am surprised you cannot see this in some of the comments and what they are really saying?

Hm, the people making the "gender equality movement" look bad in this are the ones that usually vocally support it it seems at least on Twitter. Not seeing a lot of stuff bashing feminist ideology versus ones bashing Kotaku, Grayson, Quinn, if it is the former I'm not really buying it and it is a decent mask that serves Quinn.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Malcador

[Blarghagh]

I'm gonna have to agree with Malc here. A lot of supposedly feminist gamers have been real morons in this situation. Case in point is the amount of abuse Total Biscuit has gotten making him out to be a "mysognist thug" and such. For reference, here's the single post Total Biscuit made on the subject:

 

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1

 

The tl;dr version is: "Using DMCA takedowns for censorship is bad, critics who give higher grades for any type of favour abuse their readers trust, and I'm not touching the rest of this discussion with a ten foot pole."

 

He literally said nothing at all specifically pertaining to Zoe Quinn being female at all, it was never a factor in his post and his criticisms were fair and just as easily apply to men as they do to women - essentially the definition of equal rights. Somehow, he's had a huge storm of criticism labeling him as a mysoginist, accusing him or perpetuating rape culture, etc. not because he was sexist, but because he spoke of something a woman did negatively. I am all for equal rights, and that's not it. They are doing an almost coordinated job of removing the credibility of everybody who has legitimate concerns about gender inequality.

[Chaz]

 

Can someone in short explain me what is going on? I am quite lost

• A guy broke up with his girlfriend and posted the "why" to a website with screencaps of texts and tweets.
• Girlfriend is a game developer who (according to the posted screenies) admitted to a relationship with a game journalist who wrote positively about her game while still in a relationship with guy.
• Internet explodes.

At least that's what I've gotten out of it.

 

 

Like I said before, if an insider said EA was paying kotaku to get good reviews and positives articles, the internet would explode (and rightfuly so)

 

But since it's a woman that had sex with a journalist (instead of bribing him with money) apparently a lot of people are dismissing the issue right away, people can't even discuss this in many websites without getting their comments deleted and their accounts shadowbanned. Even here I've seen many users suggesting the thread be deleted wich is embarrasing.

 

 

[Elerond]

 

 

Can someone in short explain me what is going on? I am quite lost

• A guy broke up with his girlfriend and posted the "why" to a website with screencaps of texts and tweets.
• Girlfriend is a game developer who (according to the posted screenies) admitted to a relationship with a game journalist who wrote positively about her game while still in a relationship with guy.
• Internet explodes.

At least that's what I've gotten out of it.

 

 

Like I said before, if an insider said EA was paying kotaku to get good reviews and positives articles, the internet would explode (and rightfuly so)

 

But since it's a woman that had sex with a journalist (instead of bribing him with money) apparently a lot of people are dismissing the issue right away, people can't even discuss this in many websites without getting their comments deleted and their accounts shadowbanned. Even here I've seen many users suggesting the thread be deleted wich is embarrasing.

 

 

 

 

Internet didn't explode when GameSpot fired one of their journalist because he gave too low score for Kane&Lynch, because Eidos (games publisher)  demanded it, by threatening removing their ads from GameSpot's webpage. Eidos was then one of GameSpot's biggest advertisers.

 

And that isn't singular case where big game sites have exposed to get payments for good reviews by big publishers.

 

Now days they only do it more subtlety by getting journalist to play their demo versions in controlled events and then hype their games. 

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, and how about Driv3rgate? Or Homefront devs getting caught paying for good reviews? Or that publishers are often pulling ads from websites giving them bad reviews? These scandals are commonplace and nobody cares. Most recently YouTubers have been caught giving favourable or more coverage to games they have received from devs.

Edited August 26, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Fighter]

Yeah, and how about Driv3rgate? Or Homefront devs getting caught paying for good reviews? Or that publishers are often pulling ads from websites giving them bad reviews? These scandals are commonplace and nobody cares. Most recently YouTubers have been caught giving favourable or more coverage to games they have received from devs.

 

Because no one reports on them or because no one comes to accuse the reporters of harassment afterwards?

[Meshugger]

Why are so many here ignoring that any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case? That is the issue here. The part with Zoe committing rape according to her own definition of it by being unfaithful to her boyfriend is only the lulz-part.

[Chaz]

 

 

 

Can someone in short explain me what is going on? I am quite lost

• A guy broke up with his girlfriend and posted the "why" to a website with screencaps of texts and tweets.
• Girlfriend is a game developer who (according to the posted screenies) admitted to a relationship with a game journalist who wrote positively about her game while still in a relationship with guy.
• Internet explodes.

At least that's what I've gotten out of it.

 

 

Like I said before, if an insider said EA was paying kotaku to get good reviews and positives articles, the internet would explode (and rightfuly so)

 

But since it's a woman that had sex with a journalist (instead of bribing him with money) apparently a lot of people are dismissing the issue right away, people can't even discuss this in many websites without getting their comments deleted and their accounts shadowbanned. Even here I've seen many users suggesting the thread be deleted wich is embarrasing.

 

 

 

 

Internet didn't explode when GameSpot fired one of their journalist because he gave too low score for Kane&Lynch, because Eidos (games publisher)  demanded it, by threatening removing their ads from GameSpot's webpage. Eidos was then one of GameSpot's biggest advertisers.

 

And that isn't singular case where big game sites have exposed to get payments for good reviews by big publishers.

 

Now days they only do it more subtlety by getting journalist to play their demo versions in controlled events and then hype their games. 

 

 

That really sucks I have not heard of that, and I don't know if the internet exploded or not about it, but even if that issue was ignored, it doesn't mean is right to ignore this issue. Add to that the fact that people are getting silenced left and right, you may say that the sites have the right to massively delete comments and silence people, that doesn't make them any less ****, and also false DMCAing a Youtube video to silence someone is not right, no matter where you look at it from.

 

I'd also like to add that people got really upset when they discovered that videos in Machinima, I think, were secretly promoting the Xbox One, Totalbiscuit made a video about it.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Chaz

[BruceVC]

Why are so many here ignoring that any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case? That is the issue here. The part with Zoe committing rape according to her own definition of it by being unfaithful to her boyfriend is only the lulz-part.

 

Are we sure that is absolutely true, that " any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case" ?

[Amentep]

 

 

 

Can someone in short explain me what is going on? I am quite lost

• A guy broke up with his girlfriend and posted the "why" to a website with screencaps of texts and tweets.
• Girlfriend is a game developer who (according to the posted screenies) admitted to a relationship with a game journalist who wrote positively about her game while still in a relationship with guy.
• Internet explodes.

At least that's what I've gotten out of it.

 

 

Like I said before, if an insider said EA was paying kotaku to get good reviews and positives articles, the internet would explode (and rightfuly so)

 

But since it's a woman that had sex with a journalist (instead of bribing him with money) apparently a lot of people are dismissing the issue right away, people can't even discuss this in many websites without getting their comments deleted and their accounts shadowbanned. Even here I've seen many users suggesting the thread be deleted wich is embarrasing.

 

 

Internet didn't explode when GameSpot fired one of their journalist because he gave too low score for Kane&Lynch, because Eidos (games publisher)  demanded it, by threatening removing their ads from GameSpot's webpage. Eidos was then one of GameSpot's biggest advertisers.

 

Actually I remember the internet exploded over that as well (Kane & Lynch).

 

The problem (IMO) is that there's two parts to the story and a lot of people are talking more about Zoe Quinn and the personal details of her relationship with her boyfriend (see all of the debate that by "her own standards" she raped her boyfriend - it wasn't legal rape and anything else about their relationship is none of my business) than favoritism / unethical behavior of journalists.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Amentep

[Blarghagh]

Actively silencing is a problem (I agree with TotalBiscuit that abusing DMCA takedowns and ignoring fair use is a ****ty thing to do) but ignoring it is most definitely not. If a site does not want to report on this thing then it is their perogative not to report on it as it simply does not have any news value regarding to gaming. What someone did or did not do with their private parts belongs in a gossip magazine, not on a gaming website. We are not old housewives with nothing better to do.

[Chaz]

Actively silencing is a problem (I agree with TotalBiscuit that abusing DMCA takedowns and ignoring fair use is a ****ty thing to do) but ignoring it is most definitely not. If a site does not want to report on this thing then it is their perogative not to report on it as it simply does not have any news value regarding to gaming. What someone did or did not do with their private parts belongs in a gossip magazine, not on a gaming website. We are not old housewives with nothing better to do.

 

Many people don't care about the sex, they care about a dev getting publicity, reviews and favors because of a relationship, others care more about the fact that they were silenced and can't discuss it. And the people that make harmless comments about this are also insulted and attacked like TB.

I've heard of people in the game industry and journalism that are afraid of speaking about this, or are not allowed to talk about this or they'll lose their jobs. At least one of them told me about this directly, others I've heard indirectly, MundeMatt, the guy that was false DMCAd said he received many messages from devs saying that, I and had a discussion with somone who worked in Divinity: Original Sin who told me the same.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Chaz

[Malcador]

 

Why are so many here ignoring that any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case? That is the issue here. The part with Zoe committing rape according to her own definition of it by being unfaithful to her boyfriend is only the lulz-part.

 

Are we sure that is absolutely true, that " any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case" ?

 

Well Reddit had one where threads on it were purged (rumours a Reddit admin was in with Quinn as well). NeoGAF also shut stuff down there, but I've not much detail on it. Were some others as well, generally was a no-no on some sites like RPS where you'd get banned for mentioning it once SJWalker determined it was about Quinn's private life and nothing else.

 

Yeah, and how about Driv3rgate? Or Homefront devs getting caught paying for good reviews? Or that publishers are often pulling ads from websites giving them bad reviews? These scandals are commonplace and nobody cares. Most recently YouTubers have been caught giving favourable or more coverage to games they have received from devs.

Well people cared about those as well, the Streisand effect at work here is why this is what it is now

Edited August 26, 2014 by Malcador

[Meshugger]

 

Why are so many here ignoring that any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case? That is the issue here. The part with Zoe committing rape according to her own definition of it by being unfaithful to her boyfriend is only the lulz-part.

 

Are we sure that is absolutely true, that " any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case" ?

 

 

Reddit, N4G, Kotaku, RPS and so on. Just watch the videos for more info:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmy5OKg6lo

[Gfted1]

This is the explanation I found on RPGCodex so make of it what you will.

 

 

 

 

Going purely off that I can't even pretend to care about this so-called controversy.

1) Nudes online? I like where this is going. Brb, looking them up for "research".

2) Read the word "doxxed" and got confused. Stopped reading. Must do research on point 1.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1) Nudes online? I like where this is going. Brb, looking them up for "research".

I don't think you'll like what your research uncovers.

[NWN_babaYaga]

http://oppressionquest.com/

 

somone was very quick creating a new game. Seems familiar to me...

 

Enjoy!

[Orogun01]

 

 

I tried to stay away but the allure was too strong when it became clear this was an attack from some on the campaign for gender equality

It is ? Thought it was just a campaign against one woman.

 

 

I wish it was that simple. If it was just about Zoe I wouldn't comment at all. For some this has been a way to undermine feminist ideals and the gender equality movement. There are many comments similar to " this just  highlights what hypocrites Feminists are " or " this is why I don't support these types of equality movements"

 

I have to be honest I am surprised you cannot see this in some of the comments and what they are really saying?

 

Here is the thing; I imagine that when people are saying feminist they mean "these feminists", meaning the SJW game journos and developers. Because the collective supporting the campaign and doing all the digging and research are not bothered by helping TFYC whose spokesperson has admitted to being a feminist and that being one of the main reasons as to why he began the project. This is a thing where a bunch of communities that otherwise hate/ignore each other coming together in this situation.

In short, there are feminists going against the Quinn cult.

[Malcador]

1) Nudes online? I like where this is going. Brb, looking them up for "research".

Don't. Really, don't.

[HoonDing]

If I were gaming journalist I'd not bother with 3/10 female indie devs, I'd demand only triple-A Activision/EA hired escorts.

[Gfted1]

I don't know why but Im a little surprised that the gaming industry has casting couches. Who knew?

[Gorgon]

I'll just say that I think it fundamentally dishonest to make a living being a feminist. Making money off your beliefs. I mean that's what politicians do. 

[Elerond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd13fE5WJ3c

This seems to be good fit for this topic