Drama in the indy gaming biz ?

[Hurlshort]

I just want to point out Romero is cooler and more talented than any of the tools being talked about here.

[HoonDing]

 

 

Drama in the indy gaming biz?

Has there ever been not?

[Blarghagh]

What I wonder is if this had been a big deal if it had been an indie filmmaker and a film critic. I do not care who bones who - that belongs in a soap opera.

[NWN_babaYaga]

Hmm,

 

when people like that unknown Devin Fushnicken starts to compare gamers to ISIS guys it´s clearly not about gaming at all anymore. It´s so stupid it cant get any more stupid then that. And they dont get the point that a wannabe dev coming out of the nowhere like that other chick is throwing around dirt at the whole gaming industry. Two agents of a political agenda have nothing better to do as to foul ones own nest. The only thing they are contributing is this is bad and that is bad and this needs to be changed and this is sexist etc. Every prostitute has more honor and shame then all these freaks.

 

With all the time they invest into their stinky agendas it´s not surprising how much talent they show us with their magical craft in gaming. None. Exactly no skills or talent they have but they can talk alot. We need more talking devs thats for sure.

 

And just to be clear. I´m for equality in every working place and i think many studios do care about their female workers the same as they do about their guys. That an improvement can be made in specific details yeah maybe. But this is all to much. It´s like calling out for armagedon because an elephant farted in africa. And i doubt it´s good at all for the woman in this industry in general to create such a hysteria.

Edited August 25, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

What I wonder is if this had been a big deal if it had been an indie filmmaker and a film critic. I do not care who bones who - that belongs in a soap opera.

I think it would've been a bigger deal, as games are pretty niche. The main complaint I've seen is that when these relationships exist between press and the people the press coverage, there is a conflict of interest.

[Blarghagh]

Yet a lot of filmmakers and actors date critics, journalists and editors? Plus, studios buying good reviews or "quotes" is pretty standard practice in mainstream movies, so it'd be just as niche at the point where journalist-filmmaker interplay really starts to matter.

 

Look, I'm not saying a conflict of interest doesn't exist, I'm just saying it doesn't really affect anyone as far as I can see. It's extreme overthinking by people without the capacity to overthink well. Unless you are the kind of person who only listens to one critic and then that critic happens to lack integrity, you are not going to be affected by this. And really, if you are that kind of person, I have some millions I'd like to transfer to your account if you just give me a thousand bucks first as a deposit.

 

Plus, I really, really doubt the people freaking out about it have a lot of integrity themselves, judging by the amount of abuse that got hurled around.

 

EDIT: Added "as far as I can see" to "it doesn't affect anyone" because hey, maybe I'm wrong.

Edited August 25, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Malcador]

Expected as much.  But seems some people think it's an issue - else sites wouldn't be all up in arms over people discussing it.  And I assume Kotaku and RPS and whoeever might think it's an issue if people think their staff are actual whores.   Sadly the "poor woman oppressed by Internet" is the takeaway.

[kirottu]

This whole thing seems like overblown nonsense.

It will at least become a good example of Streissand effect.

 

One of Quinns lies gets called out... by her own twitter feed.

http://i.imgur.com/uUkqZlT.png

 

The picture is so big I thought it would be better to link.

[Amentep]

Yet a lot of filmmakers and actors date critics,

Really? I can't think of any actors or actress who dated critics. Maybe its a stage thing? Not really thinking of any directors either, but again the fault may be in my memory - right now ex-actress and gossip columnist Hedda Hopper being married to actor and singer DeWolf Hopper is the only one that really springs to mind and she wasn't a critic.

[Malcador]

I just want to point out Romero is cooler and more talented than any of the tools being talked about here.

 

That is true, he may have been a bit of an asshat but at least he was a hardcore coder from the start.

[Hurlshort]

Video game journalism has pretty much always been terrible.  I don't think it has much to do with the inappropriate relationship between journalists and creators, I think it is because they are all terrible writers with sophomoric sensibilities.  

 

 

The only magazine ever worth reading was CGW, and honestly the writing wasn't that good.  They just had the benefit of editors that weren't totally out of touch with the real world. 

[Orogun01]

Yet a lot of filmmakers and actors date critics, journalists and editors? Plus, studios buying good reviews or "quotes" is pretty standard practice in mainstream movies, so it'd be just as niche at the point where journalist-filmmaker interplay really starts to matter.

 

Look, I'm not saying a conflict of interest doesn't exist, I'm just saying it doesn't really affect anyone as far as I can see. It's extreme overthinking by people without the capacity to overthink well. Unless you are the kind of person who only listens to one critic and then that critic happens to lack integrity, you are not going to be affected by this. And really, if you are that kind of person, I have some millions I'd like to transfer to your account if you just give me a thousand bucks first as a deposit.

 

Plus, I really, really doubt the people freaking out about it have a lot of integrity themselves, judging by the amount of abuse that got hurled around.

 

EDIT: Added "as far as I can see" to "it doesn't affect anyone" because hey, maybe I'm wrong.

But it does affect everyone because these people have influence and a political agenda and is not just one critic but a series of issues that have been outright dismissed in favor of that agenda. It would be hyperbole to say that they might turn every game into an "inclusion-fest", but there is no denying that AAA has sought compromises towards appeasing them. Yet is the lower end indie developer who suffers as they have no way to market themselves and in a lot of cases their exposure comes from these websites. It directly affects game developers and game development because people listen to these news and if they are all publishing the same one it is going to come off as fact.

 

Also, the people freaking out about it are not relevant to the argument. They are not bound by a professional code of ethics, they are not writers or required to be professional and their insults don't change the facts.

[Oerwinde]

Hmm,

 

when people like that unknown Devin Fushnicken starts to compare gamers to ISIS guys it´s clearly not about gaming at all anymore. It´s so stupid it cant get any more stupid then that. And they dont get the point that a wannabe dev coming out of the nowhere like that other chick is throwing around dirt at the whole gaming industry. Two agents of a political agenda have nothing better to do as to foul ones own nest. The only thing they are contributing is this is bad and that is bad and this needs to be changed and this is sexist etc. Every prostitute has more honor and shame then all these freaks.

 

With all the time they invest into their stinky agendas it´s not surprising how much talent they show us with their magical craft in gaming. None. Exactly no skills or talent they have but they can talk alot. We need more talking devs thats for sure.

 

And just to be clear. I´m for equality in every working place and i think many studios do care about their female workers the same as they do about their guys. That an improvement can be made in specific details yeah maybe. But this is all to much. It´s like calling out for armagedon because an elephant farted in africa. And i doubt it´s good at all for the woman in this industry in general to create such a hysteria.

Davin Faraci is a film critic. He was a big guy at CHUD.com then Nick Nunziata essentially handed editorial control over to him and the site stopped being about movies and became the movie equivalent if a video game site, nothing but SJW editorials and such. Became unreadable. He has since left and no idea what he does now Edited August 25, 2014 by Oerwinde

[Amentep]

Video game journalism has pretty much always been terrible.  I don't think it has much to do with the inappropriate relationship between journalists and creators, I think it is because they are all terrible writers with sophomoric sensibilities.

I gather in someways the problem with video game journalism is the need for the person writing about the game to be able to play the game, which leads to people being gamers before being journalists, I guess.

[Blarghagh]

 

Yet a lot of filmmakers and actors date critics, journalists and editors? Plus, studios buying good reviews or "quotes" is pretty standard practice in mainstream movies, so it'd be just as niche at the point where journalist-filmmaker interplay really starts to matter.

 

Look, I'm not saying a conflict of interest doesn't exist, I'm just saying it doesn't really affect anyone as far as I can see. It's extreme overthinking by people without the capacity to overthink well. Unless you are the kind of person who only listens to one critic and then that critic happens to lack integrity, you are not going to be affected by this. And really, if you are that kind of person, I have some millions I'd like to transfer to your account if you just give me a thousand bucks first as a deposit.

 

Plus, I really, really doubt the people freaking out about it have a lot of integrity themselves, judging by the amount of abuse that got hurled around.

 

EDIT: Added "as far as I can see" to "it doesn't affect anyone" because hey, maybe I'm wrong.

But it does affect everyone because these people have influence and a political agenda and is not just one critic but a series of issues that have been outright dismissed in favor of that agenda. It would be hyperbole to say that they might turn every game into an "inclusion-fest", but there is no denying that AAA has sought compromises towards appeasing them. Yet is the lower end indie developer who suffers as they have no way to market themselves and in a lot of cases their exposure comes from these websites. It directly affects game developers and game development because people listen to these news and if they are all publishing the same one it is going to come off as fact.

 

Also, the people freaking out about it are not relevant to the argument. They are not bound by a professional code of ethics, they are not writers or required to be professional and their insults don't change the facts.

 

 

Yes, but the sexism nonsense got added to this particular ****storm later and is neither here nor there when it comes to what caused this and how it really affected anyone. It is dumb people being dumb. Originally, this was about one journalist claiming a female dev slept with journalists for better publicity, not politics and agenda. This was all stuff that got added after the fedoras began chastising her and the SJWs began championing her. This is when that agenda came in, forced upon it by other people who were already pushing that agenda. It's nonsense that doesn't matter to anyone.

 

I can't believe I've had to resort to both the terms fedoras and SJWs in a derogatory fashion to explain myself. It's ridiculous. Anyone who seriously believes in these terms are anything other than demonizing nonsense is below talking to. I apologize for using them.

[Amentep]

I've never heard of fedora used for anything other than a hat, so I guess I learned something today.

[Malcador]

Huh ? Thought the freakout by the SJW gaming folk like Walker, Kuchera and Sessler happened after the leak by her ex and the storm created by the guy faking Jesse Ventura's voice, not the other way around.

 

Hard to say what you could call a SJW other than that, who are fedoras ?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Malcador

[Walsingham]

Video game journalism has pretty much always been terrible.  I don't think it has much to do with the inappropriate relationship between journalists and creators, I think it is because they are all terrible writers with sophomoric sensibilities.  

 

 

The only magazine ever worth reading was CGW, and honestly the writing wasn't that good.  They just had the benefit of editors that weren't totally out of touch with the real world. 

 

It's got to be one of the few examples of things NOT being better 'back in the day'.

 

It's always been gibberish.

[Meshugger]

Context: An Admin at reddit fired the very mod that leaked the logs showing that Zoe Quinn contacted another mod, who later deleted thousands of posts about the quinnspiracy. This is getting ridicolous.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2014 by Meshugger

[Keyrock]

Yeah, I don't know what a "fedora" is either (other than a hat), please enlighten me.

[Blarghagh]

Fedora has recently become a term for "filthy, unwashed geek who thinks he's cool and important" that I thought it was specifically associated with that specific type of 4chan type misogynist, that guy who is scared that girls playing with his toys hurts his masculinity. Apparently both sides use it on each other, though, so it might just end with the bit in quotes.

 

I'd hesitate to call it a leak, the ex was the journalist and he was essentially [word for promiscuous woman]-shaming her. The fact that the supposed "Kotaku" review that Zoe Quinn apparently slept with a journalist for to get doesn't even exist doesn't seem to deter anyone. This was a jealous ex-boyfriend publicly shaming his ex and the public picked up on it and twisted it into their own agendas, upon which everyone freaked out and now everyone involved is trying to milk it for publicity, including Quinn herself and that Phil Fish dude. It is a soap opera that ridiculous fundamentalists have decided to be violently angry about.

 

There is no issue here, it has nothing to do with inclusivity in games. It has to do with sexism, but not with sexism in games. At most it is a note that some journalists may not have integrity - big whoop. Journalists haven't had integrity since before I was born. There is no right side to this debate and the whole thing needs to be dropped like a hot potato as other people's sex life is none of our freaking business. I didn't care when Clinton got a BJ, I'm sure as hell not going to give a hoot when some lady whose name I did not even know before this nonsense made it into mainstream media gave one.

[Malcador]

Hm, interesting approach - to just accept it like it is and shrug when it is pointed out. Does that apply to the abusive Internet ?

 

The suppression of it just makes this keep on going, and it is rather amusing in of itself. So far Fish's life has been ruined, or so he claims (that hack may have been a fake), so that's one good thing.

[Orogun01]

Context: An Admin at reddit fired the very mod that leaked the logs showing that Zoe Quinn contacted another mod, who later deleted thousands of posts about the quinnspiracy. This is getting ridicolous.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually the guy that got fired wasn't the one that leaked them, he was the one suspected by the other mods and got turned into a scapegoat. At least that's his account.

 

But the important thing is that every website on the internet has been corrupted by SJWs, up next Bruce will ban us. 

 

Edit: the Women In gaming indieGoGo page that was hacked has been restored, the project is currently at 30k (fingers crossed for completion) No word on who the hacker is.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Orogun01

[Zoraptor]

Bruce actually disowned the whole mess, and he has stayed out of it too. Appropriate kudos must be given and there's no need to drag him in.

 

And to be fair to Nathan Grayson- who I dislike from his time on RPS- there has been zero evidence that he broke ethics either.

 

There is no issue here, it has nothing to do with inclusivity in games. It has to do with sexism, but not with sexism in games.

 

It's gone well beyond that. If it was just some indie dev bonking journalists that would be one thing, and it probably would have blown out by now. Probably not enough public interest, might inflame some rabid MRA types but then they're basically reverse SJWs and get inflamed randomly at trivial stuff. Certainly I didn't care at the beginning, besides it reinforcing my already low view of the gaming journalist fraternity sorority consanguinity- I have even agreed with SJW types on some things like the Dead Island Torso and Twitcher booby cards. As it stands though the attempts to censor the whole thing and to couch it only in the terms of sexism has backfired massively and it's now far more about censorship and hypocrisy (not just 'liberals' trying to silence critics, but also that SJWs have used similar, personal, stuff to smear people themselves) than the original incident. At this point the SJWs are doing an excellent job of making enemies who don't care much at all about the typical SJW issues.

 

Said it in the RVGN thread in GG but the whole [ech, overstatement, and given Bruce's contribution unfair. The SJW crowd participating in this incident at least] SJW crowd is coming across as cult or Scientology like.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Zoraptor

[Orogun01]

Bruce actually disowned the whole mess, and he has stayed out of it too. Appropriate kudos must be given and there's no need to drag him in.

 

And to be fair to Nathan Grayson- who I dislike from his time on RPS- there has been zero evidence that he broke ethics either.

I know, I was kind of hoping to lure him out.

 

Anyways, now someone is doing this:

 

Edit: found the pic I was looking for, proof of Nathan Grayson dalliances with Zoe during a Vegas trip

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2014 by Orogun01