Gromnir Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 am gonna start one o' these for each class we play. in the beta, we has played two ciphers. we didn't get very far with either 'cause o' bugs, but we will share some thoughts. our firstest cipher were a human... whichever culture that were getting chainmail, rapier and stiletto for starting gear. we didn't read too much o' the developer posts on ciphers, but we were understanding that melee attacks built focus that the cipher could then use to power soul magic. our thinking were that might and dexterity were striking us as ideal abilities for a cipher, but we is rare doing obvious, so we focused on intellect and might-- pick the few cipher powers that had duration and seeming aoe kinda effects. ok, we didn't get much play from this build 'cause our priest and mage had their equipment disappear instantly, but am admitting that we found the focus building aspect refreshing if less than intuitive. our focus didn't build predictably with our melee attacks and we didn't seem like a particularly able melee combatant in any event. there were a first level cipher power (soul shock) that were 'posed to make an ally kinda discharge electrical powha, but as far as we could tell, it weren't working. ectopsychic echo, on the other hand, worked quite well as long as we had characters positioned correct. mental binding sounded like a good power, but perhaps our dex were too low 'cause we didn't have much luck with it... were hoping that high intellect would result in more secondary targets affected. regardless, we only completed meredith fight as our mage and priest were bugged. our second cipher were a dwarf. we went with similar stats, but we used a bow. we were able to generate focus with the bow, which struck us as a superior weapon for a spell caster. we got further with our dwarf cipher, and we began to get into a rhythm for generating focus, but his armour disappeared. in fact, every load game would make whatever were in the armour slot disappear. our quest and task log also evaporated on game loads, so we didn't get past the ogre in the spider cave. *shrug* that being said, after a few hours o' gameplay, we decided that we like ciphers. they have a very high micromanagement element as focus is something that is needing constant attention, but that doesn't discourage us as we is borderline ocd anyways. is also our opinion that dexterity and might is likely the best attributes to be choosing for ciphers... though we have little to base that on other than gut feelings. additionally, bows work surprising well for generating focus. anywho, post your thoughts on ciphers here... and if you think you got a sooper-groovey cipher build, don't hesitate to share. tell us we got ability and weapon choices all wrong is also welcome. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I have been interested in Ciphers since they were mentioned. I have one question; the concept art had them performing some sort of telemetry, do they have extra interaction with objects? e.g: talk to them I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCParry Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I am a big fan of the Cipher design. My first Cipher was an elf with a bow, and as a support/damage caster he outperformed the mage by leaps and bounds (although this could be bias on my focus, of course I am going to play more with my character than the slacker BB Mage). A fast range weapon seems great for building focus, and being ranged allowed me to be more mobile for positional powers. The second was a human, focusing on Might and Int, which made a freaking powerhouse. Using the third level immolate spell, except for the ogre and the first crystal spider, the cipher cleared out the entire ogre cave (on normal) by himself. He was able to target mobs on the edge of the fog of war, hit them with the spell (up to 502 damage with 20 might), wait for mob to die, focus resets to 35, repeat. I am going to play around with a couple builds when my bug patience reservoir refills, but I feel might and int are the big stat foci. The need for focus regen on hit also puts dex into the running, but I didn't seem to have problems generating focus with middling dex so far. I don't know if they did away with/renamed (or I just missed it) mind jab, but if there was any power that attached with multiple to hit rolls over a period I can see dex becoming increasingly important. Speaking of Meredith fight, soul shock + 12 boars = good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayama Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Some of the cipher spells are so powerfull right now that I didnt have to actually deal with the class mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I have been interested in Ciphers since they were mentioned. I have one question; the concept art had them performing some sort of telemetry, do they have extra interaction with objects? e.g: talk to them if that is possible, it is probable via cut-scene interaction HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrich Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) I have been interested in Ciphers since they were mentioned. I have one question; the concept art had them performing some sort of telemetry, do they have extra interaction with objects? e.g: talk to them if that is possible, it is probable via cut-scene interaction HA! Good Fun! I haven't seen it used on an Inanimate Object, but... I have seen it used on a person in conversation (not going to say who or where). I agree with Gromnir though... if it happens it will happen in an interaction or conversation. I doubt it will work like a skill such as mechanics finding hidden items. Edit: Also, although they are OP I recommend you try a Chanter, Gromnir. If you haven't already. Edited August 23, 2014 by Ganrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I have been interested in Ciphers since they were mentioned. I have one question; the concept art had them performing some sort of telemetry, do they have extra interaction with objects? e.g: talk to them if that is possible, it is probable via cut-scene interaction HA! Good Fun! I haven't seen it used on an Inanimate Object, but... I have seen it used on a person in conversation (not going to say who or where). I agree with Gromnir though... if it happens it will happen in an interaction or conversation. I doubt it will work like a skill such as mechanics finding hidden items. Edit: Also, although they are OP I recommend you try a Chanter, Gromnir. If you haven't already. chanter, druid or paladin is next... am admitting that Gromnir is getting a bit frustrated that we cannot gain xp as our quest log invariably blanks. so, we clear a couple maps and then start with a new character. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrich Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yeah, I am doing the same thing you are as a byproduct. I just roll a class play for a bit, roll another class play for a bit. If I roll the same class a 2nd time I try a new stat layout to see how it changes things. I am ready to hear about a patch... if only to fix the weapon loss/quest log bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterPrudent Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) chanter, druid or paladin is next... am admitting that Gromnir is getting a bit frustrated that we cannot gain xp as our quest log invariably blanks. so, we clear a couple maps and then start with a new character. HA! Good Fun! Hey Gronmir, I recently posted about that bug and someone (EDIT: it was Mayama) mentioned that it was triggered by loading a save game while ingame. Apparently loading saves from the menu screen is an effective work-around. Edited August 23, 2014 by MasterPrudent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I always maintain that game theory must always be tested by gameplay. So, actual gameplay accounts mean more to me than number crunching theory, which makes this thread a bit more useful. I'm more interested in Chanters in principle than Ciphers, but I am interested in the nitty gritty of observation when it comes to all of the classes. My real problem at this point is that the demo is clearly not meant to give us much more than a sneak peak at how combat, dialogue, and other things work in the game, *more or less.* I'm reaching the end of where the beta is of any use to me. I've already stopped playing it altogether, but I appreciate the threads that detail classes in ways that don't spoil story elements. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 chanter, druid or paladin is next... am admitting that Gromnir is getting a bit frustrated that we cannot gain xp as our quest log invariably blanks. so, we clear a couple maps and then start with a new character. HA! Good Fun! Hey Gronmir, I recently posted about that bug and someone (EDIT: it was Mayama) mentioned that it was triggered by loading a save game while ingame. Apparently loading saves from the menu screen is an effective work-around. will try this in the future and see if it solves the problem. ty. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polanski Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 In my opinion thee Cipher seems very clunky to play, very similar to a wizard, and you don't feel the element of always attacking a soul. The Focus building feel more like an enforcement than fun and sticks out a lot in this game as something that would belong more in an arpg or mmo. It seems strange for the cipher that focus is saved between fights and even rests. That is one focused dude. 2 ideas for changes to the class: - Make the Cipher auto-target his original target / last attacked.Quicker and more intuitive gameplay, where you feel the Cipher attacking and weakening the defences of a character to focus on him and then launching an attack on his very soul. Either to hurt those behind him / around him. This could then mean removing the allied target spells, or just have it work like this for non-allied targetting. - Remove Focus.Instead have the Ciphers abilities be based around a stat of the target derived from the targets resolve, either the resolve itself is attacked by the soul whip or concentration is, or a new "will defence" stat that is related to resolve is attacked. Then the Ciphers abilities could either have a chance to % fail based on how the targets stat is, or it would just have a hard limit of that stat. So that when the stat of the target is at 0 the cipher can cast Puppetmaster. This would of course need feedback as to which abilities are castable. The Cipher could then at the start of battle, almost instantly use some powers on weakminded enemies, whereas tougher souls would need some softening. These changes would make the Ciphers very unique and reminiscent of the elvish and orlan brîshalgwin warriors that cut away the souls of their victims. Also they would be a bit less high maintenance. For me this sounds like a fun gameplay, that could be easier to understand and would fit the Lore more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polanski Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Also it seems strange that the Cipher has higher ranged accuracy, than melee accuracy. These should be equal in my opion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jde3 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I like how Ciphers have played so far but I was hoping that they would have more spells per level. They remind me of the Warlock from NWN2 that had a handful of abilities but unlimited uses. I can understand if this was done for balancing reasons however since their spells are pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipperro Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Soul Ignition and 2 lvl paralyze spell are both so powerful, you can do the whole Backer Beta almost solo with cipher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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