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Rosbjerg

The General Combat Thread

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Please add ability to filter combat log of stuff like "fighter restores 1 stamina".

 

It's cool that it's possible to see the details behind roll by just moving mouse over it however.

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Is there a difference in melee engagement/attack range depending on the weapon you use? I had assumed so, reading about a skill like torments reach and the description of pike and quarterstaff.

 

If it does it would be nice to have feedback on the range of my characters range of engagement. Furthermore I think that it could be a very fun mechanic to play with.

 

And does/should race factor in to this (aumaua having arms as long as orlans)?

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One thing i am not a huge fan of is having the combat feedback above characters heads or at least what they currently have is too much and should be a less is more.  It takes me out of the game when I go into combat and all this crap pops up over everyone.  At least you can turn it off, just figured if they are gonna have it, its too in your face at the moment.

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After playing for a few more hours, and noticing that combat's been going a lot better now (was there an update? I don't see a new build), I just wanted to make note of combat only abilities.

 

While many of the abilities make sense to cast during combat, there are a few that have left me scratching my head, namely the buff spells. In any DnD, or DnD in likeness game, the rogue is set off to scout ahead for traps and enemies alike. Once located, the party now has the ability to set a trap or at the very least prepare for the oncoming onslaught. However, my priest cannot cast Armor of Faith or Blessing, my Druid cannot cast Woodskin or Firebrand, and my Fighter is unable to set up his Vigorous Defense. Now this means that my first few seconds of combat are going to be wasted trying to buff up, when I knew there was going to be trouble. Most fights it's been alright with tactics, but several boss fights have been made incredibly difficult as I lose out on my characters within seconds of the fight starting, whether to low stamina or knock downs, etc.

 

I suggest that Combat only abilities, at least the buffs, work instead as Enemy in sight abilities. If I can see an enemy, the ability becomes unlocked and I'm able to buff up. Maybe the use of the ability draws the enemy in, fine, but at least I got the leg up on them. Otherwise, I see very little point in scouting with my rogue...

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Now this means that my first few seconds of combat are going to be wasted trying to buff up, when I knew there was going to be trouble

This is a design decision made with the exact purpose of preventing the mindless pre-fight buffing of the IE games. Buffs are now a tactical decision, not a 3 minute spell spam session.

 

Personally, I consider this to be a blessing. Pre-fight buffing was always a chore to me.

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I'm not sure it's that awful to pre-buff if you spend your spells slots on it. Takes away from your adventuring day and in PoE you have less slots, no more than 4/level for now (less at higher levels).

 

I find a lot of stuff that was made to promote "spirit of the game" doesn't work really. Like stash, it's more annoying than tactical. Rest mechanic too, I am doing same things I did in IE, just spend a bit of money on it.

Edited by Shadenuat
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Adding this for some discussion - 

 

When, exactly, does engagement begin?

 

I have seen little to no consistency in how combat is marked as starting, and the vast majority of the time enemies run by my fighters/front line people with 1) no disengagement attacks and 2) no actual reactions on my front lines' part.

 

Maybe I don't understand how engagement and engagement limits work here. There seems little way to control the initial moment of engagement at all. This could be due to poor combat feedback, but it is immensely frustrating. 

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DCParry: That's so very true. I experimented with all those "pause when..."-settings, and there seems to be a vast difference between an enemy going hostile and charging you (it may even reach you, perhaps even land an attack), and that's the first time the skills of my party is selectable. So, in all, it can take like seconds, and even tumultuous battle visible, before combat really has started for the player. I'm not looking for D:OS pretty horrific way, where a bark string floats up, saying "FIGHT!", but this needs to get much clearer.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Well in the IE games you knew when combat started because the combat music started blaring the moment you ran into an enemy.

 

It also helped that the combat music was pretty full on in a lot of the titles. BG1 for example.

 

If you had the music off you had to look at the combat log / if one of your characters was hit, their marker on the map would flash red as would their portrait outline.

Edited by Sensuki
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I haven't seen mention of it, but I think as the Slow option is generally something you'd want to use in combat - can't imagine many cases for using it outside combat - it'd be nice to have it in the Autopause options. Yup, that's all for now.

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Well in the IE games you knew when combat started because the combat music started blaring the moment you ran into an enemy.

 

It also helped that the combat music was pretty full on in a lot of the titles. BG1 for example.

 

If you had the music off you had to look at the combat log / if one of your characters was hit, their marker on the map would flash red as would their portrait outline.

I always turn on autopause on enemy sighted so that is how I always knew combat started :D

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Well in the IE games you knew when combat started because the combat music started blaring the moment you ran into an enemy.

 

 

I really like how the combat music ushered you into the fray in the IE games, and it was reliable. Right now, combat music starts, but it will take time and closer engagement with the enemy before you get to use your combat abilities. This needs fixing.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Well in the IE games you knew when combat started because the combat music started blaring the moment you ran into an enemy.

I really like how the combat music ushered you into the fray in the IE games, and it was reliable. Right now, combat music starts, but it will take time and closer engagement with the enemy before you get to use your combat abilities. This needs fixing.

I am pretty sure combat "starts" when someone lands an actual hit.  Also to "engage" a enemy your tank has to actually get into melee with them and either hit them or be hit by them.  If they just run past each other no engagement will take place.

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Karkarov: That's a given. What I mean is that there's a gap where you get the music and the enemy rings start moving towards your party (you have become their targets, clearly). However, if I wanted to cast defensive spell or use any combat ability (that row of icons), I was unable to (it wasn't available yet), when I played the beta. Like you said, it was the first hit from the enemy that was the cue, or at least close contact somehow.

Edited by IndiraLightfoot

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Revisiting the beta after the first patch. Combat is still very confusing because at any given moment I'm not sure what my characters are doing. When the game is paused (as it often needs to be for tactical reasons), we need to be able to see any given character's pending action. Are they attacking? Are they in the middle of casting a spell? Using an ability?

 

I like the way the Baldur's Gate games solved this problem, with a little icon in the corner of the portrait of a weapon (if attacking with it) or the icon for the spell/ability they are using.

 

A little feedback here would go a long way toward making combat sane!


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Just making a joke. It would be good if there was something in the combat log that said something. eg. Beetle attacks BB Rogue even though the beetle might be quite a distance away.

At the very least. But when the game is paused, I don't want to scroll through the log to remember what hero number 5 was doing. This information should be visible at a glance.


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The way the IE games did it was if you hit pause, it showed which enemies were in combat by their selection circles. Also, you should be able to mouse over an enemy and see who they are attacking with one of your party's selection circles changing. I really don't want pop ups where it says Beetle is attacking BB Rogue. Just change the BB Rogue's selection circle is enough for me.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II

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The way the IE games did it was if you hit pause, it showed which enemies were in combat by their selection circles. Also, you should be able to mouse over an enemy and see who they are attacking with one of your party's selection circles changing. I really don't want pop ups where it says Beetle is attacking BB Rogue. Just change the BB Rogue's selection circle is enough for me.

No, nothing intrusive like that; I'm just talking about a little indicator in one of the corners of the portrait, or above it, etc. Not talking about a dialog that appears saying OMFG U ATTACKTED THE DURGN


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I just noticed I seem to be repeating a lot of what others want. Just noticed the first page and yeah, I agree with a lot of people. Same with Sensuki's suggestions thread. Just add me to everyone else that wants it more IE like.

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Combat needs some sort of auto-engagement; there are too many times when my characters are just standing around. The player shouldn't have to set auto-pause-on-target-destroyed. In the IE games your characters automatically attacked the next enemy when their current target was gone. We don't need even need full-blown AI scripts, just very basic "duh" prevention. :)

Edited by PrimeHydra
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Now this means that my first few seconds of combat are going to be wasted trying to buff up, when I knew there was going to be trouble

This is a design decision made with the exact purpose of preventing the mindless pre-fight buffing of the IE games. Buffs are now a tactical decision, not a 3 minute spell spam session.

 

Personally, I consider this to be a blessing. Pre-fight buffing was always a chore to me.

 

I fail to see how this is different to what it is now.

Now instead of prebuffing each fight, you cast aoe spells at the enemy before they can see you.

How is this not degenerative game play?

Literally nothing would change if they made buffs castable outside of combat now, since none of them last very long, so you wouldn't be able to get more than 2 off.

Which is exactly the number of spells you usually use to aoe the enemies now.

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