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  I played BG1 in 1998 and played PS:T in 1999, But I never play Fallout2 until 2005.Althrough it was so famous and admired.

  I have tried it for several times, but every time I abandoned within 2 hours. The beginning of Fallout2 is really a terrible experience for new players.In BG1 ,the duel between  Gorion and Sarevok shocked me. In PS:T,the story catch my heart at first minute.But in Fallout2, in almost 1 hour I was fighting a dozen of scorpions, boring and slowly.When I finished the test in temple,the small village also didn't give me much fun. So, I missed the great game for so many years.

  Finally, in one day of the summer holiday in 2005, I stayed at home and overcame with boredom, so I started Fallout2 again.This time, I insisted to  Dan city.Then the charm of the wasteland started revealing to me. Then,I  forgot food and sleep,cleared whole the game. Fallout2 became one of my favorite game.

  After that, I recommended fallout2 to a lot of friends.But none of them accept it,almost for the same reason---terrible first 2 hours.What a pity. So I notice that, without a good beginning,a great game may be missed by a lot of players. 

  I wish Obsidian can design an glamorous prologue beginning for PoE,even using some small petty trick,some flashy stuff,to attract new players as early as possible. Let more light players recognize the funny of old fashion RPG.

 

 

 

 

Didn't come back to the forum for half a year.If the topic has been discussed before,sorry for that. :w00t:

Edited by bronzepoem
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Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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I agree wholeheartedly that the opening two hours to any game are crucial and whilst, personally, I didn't find the opening to Fallout 2 to be too bad at all, I accept that getting players hooked through the early hours of the game is very important.

 

My recent example of this would be Jade Empire, which I only this year picked up and similarly didn't get through the opening 2 hours because the whole thing felt horribly wooden and contrived. A lot of people have suggested that a good game lies within, but I could not bring myself to search any further for it.

 

Equally as dangerous, however, is the ToEE approach of "first two hours interesting, next thirteen hours grind".

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The opening 2 hours... you mean character creation?

 

:grin:

 

I, too, agree wholeheartedly, though. We know quite well by now how the game starts out (since E3), though, and it looks promising :). I have a feeling we'll have a "big reveal", followed by a "fight to get out", and then we'll get to the first big city. BG2 says hi.

Edited by mstark
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"What if a mid-life crisis is just getting halfway through the game and realising you put all your points into the wrong skill tree?"
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Agree about FO2's start. I recently replayed it after several years, and really had to grit my teeth to get to the point where it started to be fun.

 

I didn't think JE's start was bad at all, as such things go. If you found it not to your taste, it's probably not worth bothering with the game. I liked it though; in fact it's IMO BioWare's best game all-around. Light-hearted, consistent and cool visuals, good-enough gameplay, atmospheric, nice twists to the story, very true to its theme, humor that's actually funny, and no glaring flaws. It's a shame they started taking themselves so very seriously since then, which kinda ruins it.

 

And... I hated, hated, hated ToEE's start. But that's mostly because levels 1-3 of D&D are terribad unless you cheat, and ToEE doesn't cheat. I loved it once past the point of "one unlucky die roll and you're dead."

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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I played the first 2 hours of D:OS and I just couldn't get in to it. I still have it installed because of the word of mouth, but I will need to get really bored before I slog through the begging of the game.

 

So yeah, the opening of the game is really critical.

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I find that in many newer games, all the good ideas are packed into the first two hours, which are incredible detailed, well constructed, fun and with awesome gameplay. Then it seems like the creative vibe falls significantly. I hope PoE won't make that mistake. I do, however, agree that the first two hours should establish a connection with the player and a reason for him/her to care about playing the game.

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Cool post OP.

 

Games seem to reverse the dictum of story-telling, which is to grab people in five hundred words or get tossed on the slush pile.

 

OK, there's apples and oranges but bejaysus the guy's correct when he mentions how dull the beginning of Fallout 2 was. And yeah, BG1 at least got you interested by folks trying to murder you then the high-power Sarevok ambush. BG2 - bit of a cliche, you're trapped with no memory, but the Irenicus torture chamber thing and simulacrum mystery was still better than turn-based bug hunting in a Very Brown Cave.

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sonsofgygax.JPG

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I agree.

 

The first 2 hours of Arcanum are pretty awful, which along with the terrible gameplay is why I can't stand playing it.

 

I hope PoE does better.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"I'm fine with humanity being wiped out" - majestic

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One of my favorite games was also received poorly by alot of fans and journalists because it had a slow beginning (fallout new vegas) to which alot of people never even got to vegas before writing it off as bland and boring. I think this is due to the fact bethesda (weither u like what they did to the franchise or not) succeeded in fallout 3 hooking tons of players and planting that seed that the world is full of wonder by a simple visual (aka ur first view of the wasteland when u first exit vault 101).

now dont get me wrong fonv is hands down my favorite rpg of all time, but there was a time i didny enjoy it at the beginning because there was any "wow" moments. But now as i play, i have no problem whatsoever and even enjoy the beginnings of fonv.

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I didn't think the beginning of Fallout2 was especially dull, but it was definitely, relative to what the beginning of a game should be like, a bit lacking. I think the main reason I was excited about it was because I had already played the first game, and I was all "... SPEARS! 8D!".

 

That's bad, I guess, when the intro segment of your game can only muster true excitement via the revelation of a new weapon type. 8P

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I thought the beginning of FO2 was, save for the mandatory tutorial dungeon, amazing. The atmosphere, low level gameplay, sandboxy openness of the world - hooked.

Can't say I found the beginning of BG1 very interesting until after the Gorion/Sarevok fight and leaving the mandatory tutorial dungeon (aka. Candlekeep).

BG2 - For some reason I never manage to play much further than Whatshisvoice going: "They move much sooner than I had anticipated!". So Arch, much Villain.

 

Conceivably people are drawn in by entirely different aspects. Some people like deep and personal character arcs and personal motivations, others like IWD. (nice snow you got here!)

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This statement is false.

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Maybe if all these games had employed more romance in the first 2 hours...

Oh no you didn't! ;) more cowbell too. Can't forget cowbell.

 

Loved FO2, but I thought BG2's start was more enjoyable. Also any game that starts and plays like Arcanum is going to have a tough time holding my attention..

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Maybe if all these games had employed more romance in the first 2 hours...

I wish some girls would let me romance them for the first two hours after I meet them. Not all though, because I have some standards.

Edited by KaineParker
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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

"I'm fine with humanity being wiped out" - majestic

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I remember Klamath as a whole made me dubious as to whether I was playing a true sequel for awhile. All the characters were recycled, the music was recycled from the first game's travel map, the enemies were either boring or irritating...

 

And if you specialized in guns, the first part of the game was frustrating in the extreme. Part of me understands that they wanted to emphasize that your character was a tribal with no access to guns, but another part of me can't help but notice that having to punch everything or use a spear until you found a decent gun was not fun if your character wasn't specced for either. Do you really want to start people out with 'realistic, but not fun'? 

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Maybe if all these games had employed more romance in the first 2 hours...

Isn't that how marriage works? The first "two hours" is figuratively the honeymoon. But the rest of the game doesn't follow suit. 8)

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I'm pretty sure PoE will become a great game.I never doubt about it.The only thing I worried about is it will be too slow and won't be received by new gamers.You know how impatient those new gamers are. They may open the game five minutes and yell “What?Can't jump?!” and unstall it.

So at the opening time there need to be more attractive elements.Anyway,the sales volume of PoE is still very important to Obsidian~
 
 Let's think some ideas for it. 
A suspenseful story telling will be attractive,with mysterious environment.
A high level battle between NPCs, show some epic magics, powerful summons,cool equipments.
Mission design. Several missions with super variable solutions,and a few humor consequence, show the great point of PoE at very first.
A funny compinion, like morte in PS:T.Or a beautiful girl :):w00t:
 
What's the else?
Edited by bronzepoem

Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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I'm pretty sure PoE will become a great game.I never doubt about it.The only thing I worried about is it will be too slow and won't be received by new gamers.You know how impatient those new gamers are. They may open the game five minutes and yell “What?Can't jump?!” and unstall it.

Sounds like by that point they've already bought it. CHA-CHING! 8)

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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I'm pretty sure PoE will become a great game.I never doubt about it.The only thing I worried about is it will be too slow and won't be received by new gamers.You know how impatient those new gamers are. They may open the game five minutes and yell “What?Can't jump?!” and unstall it.

Sounds like by that point they've already bought it. CHA-CHING! 8)

 

err...what is CHA-CHING :shifty:

Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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It's like the cash register sound effect. You know... the game got their money, so it's their bad, then, if they're too impatient to get past the lack of jumping. :)

 

I was just being kinda silly is all. Sorry. You were talking about worrying about PoE really reaching a lot of people today, but you described them getting upset with it and uninstalling it. So, if they installed it, then they already bought it. So I was just jokingly saying "Looks like we got that impatient person's money already! 8D" Hehe. Just silliness. It's good for morale. :)

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Isn't that how marriage works? The first "two hours" is figuratively the honeymoon. But the rest of the game doesn't follow suit. 8)

 

You know, that would be a cool idea for an rpg in the more jrpg vein (not, I hasten to add, PoE). Rather than beginning a romance where you get the girl/boy, starting the game in a romance where you have to keep (or lose) the girl/boy. That would sell like a hot potato, albeit one in the middle of the Sahara most likely.

 

Having just said that, I have recollections of Yahtzee tearing apart a game called Catherine that sounded vaguely similar to that.

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Having just said that, I have recollections of Yahtzee tearing apart a game called Catherine that sounded vaguely similar to that.

 

 

You say that as if there ever was a game he didn't tear apart. ;)

 

 

Btw, has anyone of you guys ever played the D&D 3rd edition based game Pool of Radiance?

I thought that the first hour of this game was pretty strong (for a dungeon crawler), but as soon as you entered Myth Drannor, it became extremely boring with endless fights against the always same orcs and undead (especially as I can not manually select the feats in this game, the leveling was pretty dull aswell).

 

I recently played this game again and there comes a point when you finally leave the dungeon again and ... suddenly the magic was back.

Actually, I feel like I can recommend this game (for players that love tactical turn-based combat), but you need A LOT of patience.

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I had the 1988 version for a time but, like many games of that generation, going back to that level of GUI was a bit too much for me to handle.

 

I was interested in the 2001 version but upon hearing that one major bug would cause the player's system files to uninstall when the game itself was removed, I quickly shelved the idea.

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It's like the cash register sound effect. You know... the game got their money, so it's their bad, then, if they're too impatient to get past the lack of jumping. :)

 

I was just being kinda silly is all. Sorry. You were talking about worrying about PoE really reaching a lot of people today, but you described them getting upset with it and uninstalling it. So, if they installed it, then they already bought it. So I was just jokingly saying "Looks like we got that impatient person's money already! 8D" Hehe. Just silliness. It's good for morale. :)

Haha,it‘s really funny.Ok, I learn a new word :biggrin:

Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, She got the Mercedes Benz

She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends

How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.

Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

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