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Update #78: The Leaders of the Band: Chanters and Priests

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Interesting update, the support classes seem sufficient for what they do, and their skills seem useful. A few critiques or suggestions if you can modify them in your pipeline; can you have the castor's use different inflections in their voice for when they cast spells to add some variety and reduce listener fatigue? Maybe if it's a spell that offers an ability to crit, the sound of the spoken spell has a stronger pronounced enunciation when that occurs... same goes for wizard casting spells as well. Also the timing of the spell fx feel like they're coming in too soon before the spell is finished being uttered which is a little jarring, maybe you guys can ease in the fx transition a tad later. I understand you're probably still working on fx still, but the round sphere would communicate better if it transitioned from the caster or the center of the party outwards, similar to a ripple from a wave in water rather than a solid circle just, bam in your face! Everything else is looking better and better all the time.

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Very dissapointed to see a gun on the charcter portrait, did not relize this would be gun powder fantasy.  Hoping that was just a sample and not going forward in game.   Ive also never heard this archtype called a 'leader'  generally the leader is whatever character your playing.  Usually consider 'cloth' preists healers/support, 'plate/chain' preists sub-damage/healer

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Very dissapointed to see a gun on the charcter portrait, did not relize this would be gun powder fantasy.

 

I'm fairly sure guns have been mentioned in previous updates.

 

They're primitive. And will apparently be balanced in such a way that they won't overpower other weapon types. Inaccurate and very slow rate of fire.

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Very dissapointed to see a gun on the charcter portrait, did not relize this would be gun powder fantasy.

There has been mention for a while (maybe even during KS?) that there would be guns in the game.  But, they won't be like modern AK-47's or M-16's.  I think they are more like flintlock/very early guns.  Unless you are talking about something else?  Don't really know if you don't know about them being in game, or why you consider it a gun powder fantasy when word has been passed that guns are in game?

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Guns were mentioned on like the third Kickstarter Update, and by Josh Sawyer on the Obsidian forums on either the first or second day of the KS.

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Ive also never heard this archtype called a 'leader'  generally the leader is whatever character your playing.  Usually consider 'cloth' preists healers/support, 'plate/chain' preists sub-damage/healer

 

It's a D&D 4th ed / MMO reference. In 4th ed, you have four roles; Strikers, Leaders, Controllers and Defenders. PoE is taking the four roles from these type of systems.

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Very dissapointed to see a gun on the charcter portrait, did not relize this would be gun powder fantasy.

 

I'm fairly sure guns have been mentioned in previous updates.

 

They're primitive. And will apparently be balanced in such a way that they won't overpower other weapon types. Inaccurate and very slow rate of fire.

 

 

Update 10 has Cadegund's portrait with the gun.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/317536

 

Would have been good to see an updated portrait of her in this update.

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By the way for those complaining about the Priest.

Remember this is a low level game. The Priest sounds pretty much like a low level Cleric of most D&D versions (particularly 2nd). 

 

What a surprise  ;) 

 

Who knows what they will be able to do in the sequel? 

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I would suggest that the developers move away from this idea of limiting player's choice in this way. I would rather that players choose the path they wish and that consistency be rewarded and inconsistency not rewarded. 

 

You have the choice of which deity to follow, and consistency/inconsistency with that faith is rewarded/punished. What you're asking for is exactly what Sawyer described in the update.

 

If you just mean that different aspects of the spell should be augmented by different reputation axes well, okay, that would be fine, but it wouldn't be any more or less limiting to player choice than the current system.

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By the way for those complaining about the Priest.

 

Remember this is a low level game. The Priest sounds pretty much like a low level Cleric of most D&D versions (particularly 2nd). 

 

What a surprise  ;)

 

Who knows what they will be able to do in the sequel? 

This actually isn't "low level".

 

It would be low level if there were a pre-existing Pillars franchise and we know the cap was 50. 

 

But this is the only game so far. Yes, they have said the level is so low as not to frak up future character imports, but the fact that you can only get to level 12 in this game really doesn't make it low. 12 is the highest level you can go in this game, lets not revert to "but 12 is a low number!" mentality.

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MAMA

 

JUST KILLED A MAN

 

PUT A BOW AGAINST HIS HEAD

PULLED THE BOWSTRING - NOW HE'S DEAD

Edited by Messier-31
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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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And now I might roll a human chanter and name him Freddie Mercury - because I can.

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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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By the way for those complaining about the Priest.

 

Remember this is a low level game. The Priest sounds pretty much like a low level Cleric of most D&D versions (particularly 2nd). 

 

What a surprise  ;)

 

Who knows what they will be able to do in the sequel? 

 

The issue I have with the priest isn't so much about power or flexibility (we don't know yet what other directions the class can be nudged) as it is about uninspiring class mechanics.  Compared to the other spell slingers, the Wizard and Druid, the Priest seems to be a bit generic.  The most interesting aspect of the class, the faith based power scale, it shares with paladins.  Not that it's a bad thing, but if there was a way to make faith more integral across the board for the class, it would go a long way towards making Priests interesting to me.  

 

Why not make the at will powers influenced by the god followed? Why not have priests gain bonuses for spells in their respective gods' dominion (Magran; bonuses for fire + deflection, Berath; bonuses for necromancy, etc.)?  Hell, if you stray to far from the core beliefs of a god, maybe there could be a special heretic or reformer path open up.  As it stands right now, anything that gave the class some identity would be welcome.

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A very nice update with quite a bit of lore attached to it, although thin in description (perhaps best to leave it at that at this stage in order to avoid spoilers).

 

I loved the portrait too! :)

 

I didn't like those spell effects very much, neither the lights nor the casting words (See my post in Sensuki's thread about PE's spell effects over in the general forum.)

 

Another thing I'm pretty disappointed in is the priest class. In 3.0 and 3.5 D&D, this was my second most picked class after ranger. It was also the second class I tried out. Since I love playing battle clerics that hunt undead for a sport, this PE update certainly put a spanner in the works to my plans. 

I willingly admit that I create monster clerics in 3.5 ed D&D. I min-maxed and added some bits of other classes to make them almost unstoppable forces all on their own. Now all that priestly munchkin goodness is taken away from me! :geek:

 

 

Priests in this game sound really boring lorewise and gameplay wise.  I really don't like the idea of turning them into pure support.  I pray that their some alternate builds for them, at least something like a battle cleric build that I usually play in the D&D pen and paper.

I agree 100%, and "I pray", I see what you did there! :w00t:

 

 

The Priest class is fairly uninspiring by comparison.  I had thought that the class was going to be a bit more Paladin-esque, but I guess Obsidian decided to go in a different direction; re-cycling a 2E feel.  Still, besides the reinforcing of faith based behavior, there is little about the class that seems fresh.

 

Actually, from what we've seen so far, the re-branded or new classes seem to be much more interesting than the 'core four', which feel quite flat by comparison.  I'm not sure if this is deliberate on Obsdian's part (trying to keep the IE feel), but I'm a bit concerned as the vast majority will play one of these classes and many will be disappointed if they can't make a build to their liking.

Another post that certainly sums up all my fears nicely.

 

 

In fairness, a group of 6 priests should, by all means, be the bane of the undead.

 

 

I'm definitely leaning toward priest as my first character.  Nothing really surprising, they're pretty much how I envisioned them, which is fine.

 

Yup! I want my priests to be true banes of the undead, and that means extreme strength, wisdom and crushing mace-wielding.

But, you can't win against those undead if your priest is a team-building healer.

 

I'll be really disappointed if Priests end up being nothing but support bots.  I was really hoping for them to be similar to D&D 3.5 clerics at least.  Oh well, hopefully the final spell list will contain some more interesting offensive spells and self buffs.

Indeed. Please, Obsidian, make our priest stronger and much more fierce in battle.

 

Similar to 3.5 Clerics how? As in being objectively better than nearly everyone? :p

This is a fair criticism. I just want them to be more like battle-savvy and fervent fanatics, perhaps a bit like the Crusader comes across in D# RoS, I don't know. 

 

PoE's priests are designed for people who enjoy support characters.  I think it makes the classes less distinctive and in the end the people who want to pump out damage are still going to skip something that's an "off-striker" class.  I don't think every class has to appeal to every player.

It's one thing to make classes distinctive, but quite another to make one of them into a "support character". Who wants to be Sancho Panza, when you can be Don Quixote? It's not that the "support character" is a matter of taste here. It's making them a second-class, err, class! :biggrin:  


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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This actually isn't "low level".

 

It would be low level if there were a pre-existing Pillars franchise and we know the cap was 50. 

 

But this is the only game so far. Yes, they have said the level is so low as not to frak up future character imports, but the fact that you can only get to level 12 in this game really doesn't make it low. 12 is the highest level you can go in this game, lets not revert to "but 12 is a low number!" mentality.

Josh Sawyer has said that if they get to do sequels they are designing the system to scale up to 40 levels (rather than 30 in D&D / BGs etc)

 

Whereas Baldur's Gate 1 had an effective level cap of between Level 7-8 ; Pillars of Eternity has a level cap of 12.

 

8/30 = ~0.27 and 12/40 = 0.3, but 9/30 = 0.3 (attainable by certain classes in Baldur's Gate Tales of the Sword Coast), so the level up rate in the game is about the same rate if you compare the maximum levels attainable of either game.

 

Not only that but Josh has said that PE will be a low-mid level game, and he said it in the thread about the PE Backer Items, which you read.

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Not only that but Josh has said that PE will be a low-mid level game, and he said it in the thread about the PE Backer Items, which you read.

... how dare you bring up something I forgot that I read. I challenge you!

 

I mean, regardless, though, 12 is the highest for this game, so it's not like there's precedent.

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Thanks for the great update. Really liking all the classes revealed today. Paladin sounds very cool, and I love the fact that there are actually paladin orders that are more focused on the 'fanatic' side of being a paladin than on the good/noble side. Priests sound solid as well. Chanters: very cool and interesting; I really like how you implemented it with 'chant dancing' (akin to stance dancing using intricate overlapping mechanics). One thing I just want to mention that I would love is this: it would be very cool if we could actually discover somewhere in the game where those names of the chants originated from, either in some book or journal entry or even in the chant UI itself (akin to a spell description). That would be awesome. For example: 'Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe'; it would be cool to somewhere actually discover who Wengridh and his tribe were and how this chant came to be.

 

As for the spell effects: I have no problem with the overall look of these, but as some others have mentioned: the animation timing and quality still needs some work. Also: it would be good to actually see at least some sort of indication on the characters themselves that they are buffed (as in IE games); not every single buff needs to do this of course, but some of the 'major' buffs I believe should, even if it is just a little glow above their heads.

 

That's about all the feedback I can muster now; thank you for the update. Really looking forward to the game.

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Bleak Walkers definitely win for most interesting paladin order yet revealed. Yet I have to wonder how their mercilessness is defined, given their stated purpose is "to bring a swift end to conflicts".

 

I sincerely hope that combat pragmatism plays a huge role in their creed. A somewhat rogue-ish outlook would be a nice subversion to the usual depictions of anti-paladins (who are not especially concerned with fighting fairly, but regardless usually win fights through being an unstoppable combat machine, not trickery).

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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Pretty good stuff. Deities and orders sound like something that you can have fun with and experiment. I don't mind priests being support focused class, I think it adds a nice 'tactical'/old-schooley touch.

 

 

Why not make the at will powers influenced by the god followed? Why not have priests gain bonuses for spells in their respective gods' dominion (Magran; bonuses for fire + deflection, Berath; bonuses for necromancy, etc.)?  Hell, if you stray to far from the core beliefs of a god, maybe there could be a special heretic or reformer path open up.  As it stands right now, anything that gave the class some identity would be welcome.

 

This sounds like an interesting idea.

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Slightly off-topic, but has it been confirmed whether or not we will be able to use custom portraits for ourselves and NPCs? [...]

 

Definitely custom portraits for your own characters and I think (but am not positive) that we have UI support for switching companion portraits.  Not 100% sure on that.

 

Let's keep in mind that the Infinity Engine games did not have UI support for changing NPC portraits, but you could still do it by placing BMP files with the right names in the override folder.

 

I'm sure that modders will discover (and teach the rest of us about) ways to make such changes in this game as well, even if the devs don't officially add support for it. So, nothing to worry about.


"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Priests in this game sound really boring lorewise and gameplay wise.  I really don't like the idea of turning them into pure support.  I pray that their some alternate builds for them, at least something like a battle cleric build that I usually play in the D&D pen and paper.

 

Sounds like Paladins may be taking that role in this game.

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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One thing I just want to mention that I would love is this: it would be very cool if we could actually discover somewhere in the game where those names of the chants originated from, either in some book or journal entry or even in the chant UI itself (akin to a spell description). That would be awesome. For example: 'Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe'; it would be cool to somewhere actually discover who Wengridh and his tribe were and how this chant came to be.

 

You will actually be able to find new chant words in the game world (such as through reading books and sh .. stuff, ffs I hate language filters). But yeah stuff like that would be cool too.

Edited by Sensuki
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