Female gamers having a hard time in gaming communites

[600lbpanther]

Let's see if we can answer this very philosophical and difficult question:  Why aren't there any females in Pillars of Eternity's forum?

• Romance thread
• Boob armor thread
• This thread that is "worried" about the lack of females.

I suggest another group that should be in the game:  A group of overly intellectual, tech saavy, great guys who want to "nice" a girl to death...I present ... The White Knights of the Innernet Forest.  Guys who are sensitive and desire to cater to a woman's every demand, who dream of marriage even before they know her name...a man who will gently hold her hand and will fight for her to the death!!  A gentleman that will never utter a mean word to her and give in to her every want and, subsequently, one who will effectively bore her to death.  However, their mortal enemy that they must confront before this can happen:  The first date.  :dun dun dun:

 

 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I agree there was a lack of exemplary conduct on both sides Mr Protagonist, but it seems the young lady was equally willing to roll in the mire so to speak. If she had remained calm, polite and jovial then her point might have been conveyed more clearly, to my mind at least. Lashing out at those whom are supporting her position seems a little counter productive.

 

I actually like boob armour. I like the D&D fantasy, skimpy chain mail Clyde Caldwell, Fred Fields, Jeff Easley, et al artwork. I'm a guy. I can't help it. As Orogun pointed out in this thread, sometimes people just take the opposing view to disagree for the hell of it which is what I did in the boob armour discussion. What I didn't realise was so many people were in favour of boob scale armour or didn't care either way, even though some of those people were against it with Cadegund's armour or posted in the 'Weapon and Armour Design - A Plea' thread being against boob armour. Gromnir and Amentep made some great points in that thread. And then some people think I'm some white knight? LMAO.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Bryy]

I want to request a group for normal males that don't talk about "feelings", "sensitivities", "gay rights", "special treatment for women or gays in video gaming" and all that post-modern ridiculous meaningless tiresome bull ****. I just want to play with people that aren't compelled to repeat this **** all the time like a mantra. Can that StarCitizen or whatever it is make a group for people like me or are they just another bunch of aggressive gays and feminists that place gays and women above hetero men?

 

I just want a place to relax and chat without being constantly ambushed and harassed by feminists and gay rights activists. Can they do that? I bet they can't.

 

The West is so decaying...

... I don't even really know how to respond to this.

 

Making every citizen feel safe and wanted is progress.

[Hormalakh]

It's as if you all forgot about green shirt girl.

 

Also I was going to post "but what does this have to do with boob-armor?" but apparently someone beat me to it, and unironically at that.

 

 

also Indira, you're a girl? *whistle* sooo.....what's your number? Can I have it?

 

the world's been sexist long before we gamers came out from under our safety-blankets and into the sunlight.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Hormalakh

[Nonek]

 

I agree there was a lack of exemplary conduct on both sides Mr Protagonist, but it seems the young lady was equally willing to roll in the mire so to speak. If she had remained calm, polite and jovial then her point might have been conveyed more clearly, to my mind at least. Lashing out at those whom are supporting her position seems a little counter productive.

 

I actually like boob armour. I like the D&D fantasy, skimpy chain mail Clyde Caldwell, Fred Fields, Jeff Easley, et al artwork. I'm a guy. I can't help it. As Orogun pointed out in this thread, sometimes people just take the opposing view to disagree for the hell of it which is what I did in the boob armour discussion. What I didn't realise was so many people were in favour of boob scale armour or didn't care either way, even though some of those people were against it with Cadegund's armour or posted in the 'Weapon and Armour Design - A Plea' thread being against boob armour. Gromnir and Amentep made some great points in that thread. And then some people think I'm some white knight? LMAO.

 

 

I'm not utterly against the Frazetta image, however I would like there to be some reasoning behind it, and for it to fit within the games aesthetic. The scale armour byrnie I thought was generally a sensible piece of armour that fits with Poe's other pieces, and just needed a few pixels shaving off the bust ideally. In general I would say go realistic like say the Witcher and commit so that the fantastic stands out as just that, or go totally stylised like WOW and reap the benefits of that system. There is of course the odd game like Warhammer that can mix the two, but they are rare.

 

Edit: What I like about the armour and weapons thread is the depth, splendour and detail that are to be found in real world examples of arms and armour, while maintaining practicality. As always for me reality trumps fantasy, because it's just so rich and layered. 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Nonek

[Hormalakh]

 

I want to request a group for normal males that don't talk about "feelings", "sensitivities", "gay rights", "special treatment for women or gays in video gaming" and all that post-modern ridiculous meaningless tiresome bull ****. I just want to play with people that aren't compelled to repeat this **** all the time like a mantra. Can that StarCitizen or whatever it is make a group for people like me or are they just another bunch of aggressive gays and feminists that place gays and women above hetero men?

 

I just want a place to relax and chat without being constantly ambushed and harassed by feminists and gay rights activists. Can they do that? I bet they can't.

 

The West is so decaying...

... I don't even really know how to respond to this.

 

you laugh at it.

 

like tihs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xEfUh6dSpk

 

i made sure he was white and male to not hurt the posters sensitive sensibilities.

[AwesomeOcelot]

The recent boob armour discussion is a good example. Mihura posted she didn't like boob armour. (I'm assuming she's a girl). Also, I noticed that it was the guys who wanted boob scale armour or didn't have a problem with it. Yet, when a female posts her dislike for it, there's immediate disagreement from the guys. Even so far as someone pointing out Mihura's forum avatar. So it went from disagreement of boob armour to pointing out forums avatars? Then science and animals was introduced and Mihura pointed out 'Let's not go there'. Eventually, it appears Mihura has decided not to waste any more time and leave. I can see why some females may not be interested in posting on these forums. It's just not worth it. I'm not defending or white knighting. It's just an observation I noticed in that thread.

I fail to see what the problem is with those posts... and I don't think you can draw anything from a sample of one, there are many women that are not bothered by breasts or fantasy armour, some actually like those. You're saying people can't disagree with others or only females? Pointing out the forum avatar was making a point, it reads to me as coherent, polite, and on topic, even if it misses the point. The pseudo-science post wasn't offensive, just stupid on two counts. Women are going to encounter stupid posts and stupid people in every community.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I fail to see what the problem is with those posts...

 

Pointing out the forum avatar was making a point, ... , even if it misses the point.

 

The pseudo-science post wasn't offensive, just stupid on two counts.

 

 

Okay, you fail to see a problem with those posts even if it misses the point or just stupid. No problem.

[AwesomeOcelot]

 

I fail to see what the problem is with those posts...

 

Pointing out the forum avatar was making a point, ... , even if it misses the point.

 

The pseudo-science post wasn't offensive, just stupid on two counts.

 

Okay, you fail to see a problem with those posts even if it misses the point or just stupid. No problem.

 

I mean everyone has to deal with stupid posts and people who miss the point, and there's plenty of women who do that. You seem to be missing the point of my post right now... OMFG, people are wrong on the internet. What's that got to do with female gamers having a hard time?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

I mean everyone has to deal with stupid posts and people who miss the point, and there's plenty of women who do that. You seem to be missing the point of my post right now... OMFG, people are wrong on the internet. What's that got to do with female gamers having a hard time?

 

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts. Did you not read this part of what I posted before: If you're going to ridicule and take the discussion off topic and attack them, then I can understand why they might not feel welcome.

 

So here's an easy question. If male gamers make personal attacks against female gamers, will they feel welcome?

[AwesomeOcelot]

 

I mean everyone has to deal with stupid posts and people who miss the point, and there's plenty of women who do that. You seem to be missing the point of my post right now... OMFG, people are wrong on the internet. What's that got to do with female gamers having a hard time?

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts. Did you not read this part of what I posted before: If you're going to ridicule and take the discussion off topic and attack them, then I can understand why they might not feel welcome.

 

So here's an easy question. If male gamers make personal attacks against female gamers, will they feel welcome?

 

I didn't see anything like that in the posts you cited either personal attacks or taking discussion off topic.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I didn't see anything like that in the posts you cited either personal attacks or taking discussion off topic.

 

Gold!

[Humanoid]

Y'know this is a bit of a non-sequitur post, but I find from experience this kind of thing does work better when handled from the top down. I know I'm probably on a bit too much about my MMO experience, but I do absolutely find that guilds with a balanced leadership group (indeed for the first few years the officer core was actually majority female) in terms of diversity are much better social places, and not just because of policy and enforcement of booting out troublemakers: indeed that didn't need to happen much if at all. The value was more in setting cultural expectations of how to behave in mixed company, instead of allowing that insular "Internet" mentality to fester in homogenous environment. And while initially I'd say the leadership representation was mostly proportional to that of the larger membership, inevitably as the greater group grew in size the membership skewed towards the average demographic of younger and maler - and yet this did not really end up presenting a problem because we had a strong cultural base and a strong existing memberbase that made sure that situation remained in place.

 

How any of this would apply to a large forum I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if a better, and visible balance in forum leadership and moderation had some beneficial outcome.

[Volourn]

". If male gamers make personal attacks against female gamers, will they feel welcome?"

 

Oh, give me a break. Gamwers - male or female - make personal attacks on each other all the time. They aren't 'attacking' female posters because theya re female theya re attacking them because they are posters.

 

\Why do people in 2014 hate and look down on women so much that they view them as weaklings that need to be cuddled? That's insulting. That's insulting to plenty of women I know who can take care of themselves just fine without being babied.

 

\Grown ass woman can take care of herself just like a grown ass man can take care of himself.

 

Now for the tennieboppers who post on the internet, time to grow up and learn how to deal with people who disaree with you.

 

O M G

[Hiro Protagonist II]

oh ok. It's okay to make personal attacks on at anyone. male or female and regardless of age. because you know they're big enough to look after themselves. check. And some people have no idea why some people don't feel welcome.

 

Also, I'm having a hard time figuring out where the 'male' posters fit into this insult to females, considering girls are specifically mentioned: because some flatchested girls are having a hissy fit about big boobs showing

 

That's a specific gender insult/attack. Calling someone stupid is not gender specific. Making a gender specific insult with the quote I linked is not attacking all posters. It's targeting a specific gender.

 

Looks at thread title again.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Gromnir have you not noticed there are very few females members active on these forums? Am I the only one who is concerned by this and wonders why?

 

 

Can you determine why they aren't active though?

 

Is the forum (or its posters) uninviting or are women uninterested in posting?

 

 

The recent boob armour discussion is a good example. Mihura posted she didn't like boob armour. (I'm assuming she's a girl). Also, I noticed that it was the guys who wanted boob scale armour or didn't have a problem with it. Yet, when a female posts her dislike for it, there's immediate disagreement from the guys. Even so far as someone pointing out Mihura's forum avatar. So it went from disagreement of boob armour to pointing out forums avatars? Then science and animals was introduced and Mihura pointed out 'Let's not go there'. Eventually, it appears Mihura has decided not to waste any more time and leave. I can see why some females may not be interested in posting on these forums. It's just not worth it. I'm not defending or white knighting. It's just an observation I noticed in that thread.

 

 

Am I the only individual who thought it was Ms Mihura whom was being a touch confrontational and impolite, I was in general supporting her position on de-emphasising the bust and yet got called stupid for my troubles, and the tone of her posts to other respondents was similarly rather abrupt. Then again I am old fashioned and courteous to a fault so may be more easily shocked.

 

 

Okay Nonek what did you say to her? You sound very guilty about something, tell me exactly how the conversation went and I'll let you know if it was sexist or dismissive. I am very good at determining intentional and unintentional bias against minority groups. Sometimes people don't even realize they are doling it so consider me your social justice barometer to help you wade through this sea of moral and offensive uncertainty.  But you need to be honest and tell me EXACTLY what you said and how you said it

 

 

 

 

You seem to be missing the point of my posts. Did you not read this part of what I posted before: If you're going to ridicule and take the discussion off topic and attack them, then I can understand why they might not feel welcome.

 

So here's an easy question. If male gamers make personal attacks against female gamers, will they feel welcome?

 

 

On a more serious note Hiro has succinctly summarised the real issue at hand. We should all  be asking ourselves this question "how do we make female gamers feel welcome "

 

Of course personal attacks don't help the situation but there is more we can all do if we are honest. I am not going to make any suggestions. It would be great if everyone thought about this and posted there own ideas. Remember this is no such thing as a  bad suggestion around this discussion so don't be nervous that people may dismiss your views

[Bryy]

This thread has gone exactly where I thought it would in four pages. Yup.

[BruceVC]

This thread has gone exactly where I thought it would in four pages. Yup.

 

I'm interested how you thought this thread would go? I never try to predict the direction or comments of people on forums when I comes to certain topics

[AwesomeOcelot]

That's a specific gender insult/attack. Calling someone stupid is not gender specific. Making a gender specific insult with the quote I linked is not attacking all posters. It's targeting a specific gender.

I don't think you can call it a personal attack in the context. It's not enough to say it's intended as an insult. The term "White Knight" has more room to be an insult, depending on how it's meant, that is specific to gender.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

I don't think you can call it a personal attack in the context. It's not enough to say it's intended as an insult. The term "White Knight" has more room to be an insult, depending on how it's meant, that is specific to gender.

 

 

Not a personal insult or an attack as long as it's in some sort of 'context' or not intended as an insult.

 

Justification by AwesomeOcelot with that quote being okay and not an insult or personal attack against females.

 

This thread has gone exactly where I thought it would in four pages. Yup.

 

Yep. I've had enough. I'm out of here.

[kirottu]

oh ok. It's okay to make personal attacks on at anyone. male or female and regardless of age. because you know they're big enough to look after themselves. check. And some people have no idea why some people don't feel welcome.

Well, it's not okay, but it is definately better than the alternative.

 

Also, I'm having a hard time figuring out where the 'male' posters fit into this insult to females, considering girls are specifically mentioned: because some flatchested girls are having a hissy fit about big boobs showing

 

That's a specific gender insult/attack. Calling someone stupid is not gender specific. Making a gender specific insult with the quote I linked is not attacking all posters. It's targeting a specific gender.

Guys who like boob armor only like boob armor, because now they finally have something they can fit their fat manboobs in. I think would have been more correct response than leaving. Gender insult for a gender insult.

[Calax]

I think that the basic point is this: People are going to be **** to one another no matter the context, and hanging a sign saying "I am [insert any tag here]" is just asking for those who you disagree with to pick that up and run you down with that as their main offense in the "wars" of the interwebz.

 

It'll get especially bad if you say "Well I have this personal opinion and because I'm [insert tag her] you have to do what I say because it's effecting my [tag]". Or to give that more context

 

If you say "I feel armor that shows off my chest is demeaning and I don't like it so you should remove it because I represent the female population!" you're gonna get jumped on.

 

And Bruce, One of Gifted's points from a few pages ago was that the minute we start making "minority only" group, we create an area where the "non minority" of the white male becomes the one discriminated against because he has no "group".

[aluminiumtrioxid]

How any of this would apply to a large forum I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if a better, and visible balance in forum leadership and moderation had some beneficial outcome.

 

Look upon the rpg.net forums, and despair!

[Drowsy Emperor]

Yes, Nonek you sound very guilty!

 

[BruceVC]

Yes, Nonek you sound very guilty!

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that