The world, realms, places, coats of arms

[Messier-31]

 

I bet most of you remember this concept graphic from a PP-presentation some time ago. What I find really vague is how far and wide will the game world of Eternity be? We all know the official world map, but I wonder which parts of it will be covered in the game. Although Obsidian needs to leave some of the world for the expanions and/or future projects, questions like "is the Durgan's Battery in our adventuring party's reach?" haunt me all the time.

 

Also, what I think would be great if present in the game would be coats of arms, a crest for each of the countries. This concept crests seen in the graphic above would do nicely, and I hope they will be in the final game. Upper-left corner seems like a good crest for either Free Palatinate of Dyrwood or Aedyr Empire - because of the deer in it, ofc (duh!). What do you think about other crests visible? What would be a good crest for other realms or factions?

 

My guess is:

upper-left - Dyrwood or Aedyr

upper-right - Eir Glanfath

lower-left - Readceras

lower-right - Vailian Republics or Old Vailia

 

And BTW, I wonder is it possible to be a Vailian with a light skin complexion - or an inhabitant of Dyrwood with a dark skin complexion; was there some info about that?

 

 

[Karkarov]

I think the world is a little bigger than that to be honest, I imagine the Vallian rebublics being further from defiance bay etc etc.  But it may just be me.  I am definitely also looking forward to more details about character creation and just how many options we will actually get.  Yes the characters will be small on screen but we can still get a serious about of graphical fidelity in games these days and you can pick out details even on small characters.  Like hair style/color, skin color, body shape, etc etc.

[Messier-31]

Everyone loves details.

 

I think the world is a little bigger than that to be honest, I imagine the Vallian rebublics being further from defiance bay etc etc.  But it may just be me.

 

According to the Wiki (http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/World) the said area is roughly the size of Spain.

[Prometheus]

I think the game map in the opening post doesn't show the Vailian Republics and only a small part of Eir glanfath, it only shows the parts of the Eastern Reach, that you can visit in Pillars of Eternity (the Dyrwood and later in the game Eir glanfath (source)). The whole map with the vailian republics is comparable to spain, not the game map.

 

For the location of the  mega dungeon, they removed raedrics hold and added caed nua to the world map last december, caed nua could be the name of the fortress above the endless paths.

 

And BTW, I wonder is it possible to be a Vailian with a light skin complexion - or an inhabitant of Dyrwood with a dark skin complexion; was there some info about that?

Culture(where are you from) and ethnicity(how do you look like) are different things. So you can be a meadow human from the vailian republics. BTW they said that you can't be from eir glanfath or dyrwood(source)

 

I'm not so sure dyrford will be the beginning of the game, in the gamecrate interview with Josh Sawyer(around 1:05), he said that they were at the beginning. The interview is from february this year and dyrford is the village from the prototype.

[Suburban-Fox]

If they do have coats of arms, I hope they're done properly, because they never are in fantasy.

 

In medieval times, they didn't have colour photocopiers, so a coat of arms was unlikely to be produced exactly the same by two people. Therefore, the patterns tended to be relatively simple, so that they could be adequately described. Someone was expected to read "Gules, three lions passant or", and immediately know that this was the livery of the King of England (up until Henry V), and be able to reproduce it fairly closely. The lions might look different from one drawing to another, but as long as there are three of them in the passant position, and they're yellow enough to be identified as "or", and the background is red enough to be "gules", then it's still identifiable as the king's livery.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Suburban-Fox

[J.E. Sawyer]

 

My guess is:

upper-left - Dyrwood or Aedyr

upper-right - Eir Glanfath

lower-left - Readceras

lower-right - Vailian Republics or Old Vailia

 

And BTW, I wonder is it possible to be a Vailian with a light skin complexion - or an inhabitant of Dyrwood with a dark skin complexion; was there some info about that?

 

The upper left is the Dyrwood (the star represents Glanfathan culture), upper right is Eir Glanfath (though they don't typically display it heater shield-style), lower left is Aedyr, lower right is the Vailian Republics (the five stars represent the cuiteti beli/great cities).

 

You can create a Vailian with light skin or a Dyrwoodan/Aerydan with dark skin.  Colonization has been happening for several centuries now, so there has been enough time for small numbers of ethnically-different families to find new homes in other lands.

[Messier-31]

 

If they do have coats of arms, I hope they're done properly, because they never are in fantasy. 

In medieval times, they didn't have colour photocopiers, so a coat of arms was unlikely to be produced exactly the same by two people. Therefore, the patterns tended to be relatively simple, so that they could be adequately described.

 

Minor importance, I guess. You know, this is after all fantasy, not medieval reality.

 

 

The upper left is the Dyrwood (the star represents Glanfathan culture), upper right is Eir Glanfath (though they don't typically display it heater shield-style), lower left is Aedyr, lower right is the Vailian Republics (the five stars represent the cuiteti beli/great cities).

 

You can create a Vailian with light skin or a Dyrwoodan/Aerydan with dark skin.  Colonization has been happening for several centuries now, so there has been enough time for small numbers of ethnically-different families to find new homes in other lands.

 

Thank you for the insight. I'm a bit surprised that there's no Readceras there, but even so there's a lot more to find out once the game's released. Cheers!

[J.E. Sawyer]

If they do have coats of arms, I hope they're done properly, because they never are in fantasy.

 

In medieval times, they didn't have colour photocopiers, so a coat of arms was unlikely to be produced exactly the same by two people. Therefore, the patterns tended to be relatively simple, so that they could be adequately described. Someone was expected to read "Gules, three lions passant or", and immediately know that this was the livery of the King of England (up until Henry V), and be able to reproduce it fairly closely. The lions might look different from one drawing to another, but as long as there are three of them in the passant position, and they're yellow enough to be identified as "or", and the background is red enough to be "gules", then it's still identifiable as the king's livery.

 

Heraldry in the Eastern Reach is at least superficially similar to medieval/early modern European heraldry.  Divisions of field and devices are largely used in the same way.  Our colors do not follow the traditional rules of tincture and or/argent (represented as yellow and white) are not intended to be metals.  Aedyran/Dyrwoodan/Vailian heraldry does not use Euro-style furs (other than sable) but does use patterns (e.g. chequy) and counter-charging.  The standard vert, azure, gules, etc. are used in addition to uncommon (in Europe) colors and stains like sanguine and bleu celeste (the latter is particularly common in Dyrwoodan heraldry).

 

Because of their relative simplicity and uniformity, Eastern Reach arms could be reproduced from text or black and white drawings with a high degree of fidelity -- like Euro arms.

 

Unlike Euro heraldry, Eastern Reach heraldry is attached to the family name.  Individual family members use their own distinguishing devices as a badge overlaid on a shield, hung on their armor, or worn on a cloak.

 

Here is a fun activity for those who like heraldry: create the arms of the following families that are the traditional erls of the Dyrwood (hopefully I didn't mess anything up in translation):

 

Ethgowr, Erls of Baelreach - Party per fess embattled vert and argent, two estoiles or.

Ungradr, Erls of Coldwater - Chequy bleu celeste and argent, a falcon perched gules.

Gathbin, Erls of Yenwood - Party per fess dancetty gules and bleu celeste, an oak tree eradicated counter-charged.

Manhem, Erls of Helsgate - Party per chevron sable and gules, a dragon rampant sinister counter-charged.

[Hormalakh]

I love that there's heraldry. I know nothing about it, but it's cool. I like learning new things in my games.

[Suburban-Fox]

Minor importance, I guess. You know, this is after all fantasy, not medieval reality.

 

I know, which is why I'm not getting all heraldry-nazi about the colours/metals/furs etc.   The only thing I'm really bothered about is believability, which is why they need to be relatively simple in style, so that they can be easily recreated by somebody who's never seen it, as opposed to a completely unique design that nobody could hope to reproduce without having the original in front of them. (this is actually one of the few things I don't like about HBO's Game of Thrones series - the House Stark livery is far too unique in its style)

 

 

Because of their relative simplicity and uniformity, Eastern Reach arms could be reproduced from text or black and white drawings with a high degree of fidelity -- like Euro arms.

 

That's pretty much what I was getting at, so that's great.   (I'll have a go at those shields later )

[Greydragon]

In the case of heraldry there were several texts showing historical and more recent examples of the local heraldry (and well known foreign and extinct lines) written and laboriously hand copied by scribes and monks, so depending on location you could get a decent copy of a coat of arms that didn't differ very much from the current form or the original. The earliest example was written in the 1350's.

[Suburban-Fox]

Edited May 6, 2014 by Suburban-Fox

[KazikluBey]

I'm more familiar with the continental terms, so I had to do some looking up and it looks like someone beat me to it, but here goes:

 

         

 

        

 

The falcon should probably be given "natural colors", but I lack artistic talent as well as Photoshop Inkscape skills, so there you go.

 

For the Gathbins, I'm not sure exactly where the distinction is drawn between indentation and dancetty, but with only two peaks they look almost like hills, which could be fitting, I suppose. Also, fructed wasn't specified, but finding a suitable oak without acorns seemed impossible, though it's probably one of those things that just come implicitly, like animals looking to the heraldic right unless otherwise specified.

 

The Manhem dragon should probably be more in the center, but I liked the cleaner cut.

 

Every element comes from public domain/Creative Commons stuff on Wikipedia, with the exception of the falcon.

[PrimeJunta]

Awesome, @Suburban-Fox! I sketched them on a piece of paper and ended up with something almost identical; my dragon is facing left and my gold stars were both on the top half. But then I don't know jack about heraldry so I'm surprised I got that much right!

 

... awesomer, @KazikluBey. Does sinister mean facing right? And the falcon was gules (red), no? I put the estoiles like you did too.

 

(Damn, learning!)

 

Edit edit: heraldic right, which I take it is from the POV of whoever is bearing the shield?

 

(Man this is fun!)

Edited May 6, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Suburban-Fox]

Yes, that's the idea of heraldry...two people can sketch it from the description and end up with almost identical results.

 

Normally the dragon would face left (our left), but in this one he is "rampant sinister", meaning he faces left (the bearer's left - just to be confusing, heraldry is drawn from the point of view of the person holding the shield, so left on the shield is actually right as we would look at it).

 

I wasn't sure about the positioning of the stars, so I could be wrong about that...I'm not totally sure how it works with division.

[KazikluBey]

Awesome, @Suburban-Fox! I sketched them on a piece of paper and ended up with something almost identical; my dragon is facing left and my gold stars were both on the top half. But then I don't know jack about heraldry so I'm surprised I got that much right!

 

... awesomer, @KazikluBey. Does sinister mean facing right? And the falcon was gules (red), no? I put the estoiles like you did too.

 

(Damn, learning!)

Sinister means facing left - the heraldic left, that is! You're supposed to view the directions as if you're holding the shield yourself.

 

And you're right, I missed the red part there.

[Suburban-Fox]

Well your art skills are better than mine...either that or you have a far better command of graphic manipulation software than I do!

 

Also, there probably shouldn't be a black border between the sections...yeah, I kind of suck at drawing stuff. :D

 

Oh, and...aye, this is fun!!

Edited May 6, 2014 by Suburban-Fox

[KazikluBey]

I had a thumb through the calendar of Swedish nobility, and the number two is really quite rare, and if a charge is repeated twice, there's practically always another charge as well that takes the center stage - particularily popular with a high chevron as the divider, and two small charges up in the corners. In any case, there never seems to be a field left blank like in my rendition, so I think Suburban-Fox's interpretation of the star placement is the sounder one.

 

Edit: Well, except for the no-metal-on-metal rule which is why I placed them up top to begin with, I think, but as JES already said they ignored that bit...

 

And because I can't leave well enough alone, I had another go:

 

              

 

As for image manipulation software I just used .svg files from Wikipedia in Inkscape, and the mostly just the fill tool to correct the colors. If you look closely, you can see some red lines I couldn't easily get rid of in the chequered one.

 

Oh, and yes this is fun, it's not often you get a chance to get nerdy about heraldry.

Edited May 6, 2014 by KazikluBey

[Suburban-Fox]

I generally figured that if the charges were all in one field, the description would read something like "party per fess embattled, verte two estoiles or, argent", so it's got to be either like that, or both along the fess itself (though I don't think I've ever seen charges placed like that).

 

I used Gimp, with images found via Google, which wasn't ideal...it took ages to get them looking close to how I wanted them, and your version looks a lot neater than mine!

Edited May 6, 2014 by Suburban-Fox

[Messier-31]

Fantastic work you guys - wish I was home, so I could try it myself.

 

More lore details in our game, exciting.

[PrimeJunta]

The dragon looks untidy. Not because of your renditions which are brilliant, but because the design itself is untidy. You'd need a much simpler dragon for that counter-changing to work visually IMO. Get on it, Josh!

[KazikluBey]

I generally figured that if the charges were all in one field, the description would read something like "party per fess embattled, verte two estoiles or, argent", so it's got to be either like that, or both along the fess itself (though I don't think I've ever seen charges placed like that).

 

I used Gimp, with images found via Google, which wasn't ideal...it took ages to get them looking close to how I wanted them, and your version looks a lot neater than mine!

Ah, yes. Sounds reasonable, I don't know too much about blazons, and even less about English ones. Swedish blazons also seem a little less standardized in format.

 

And working with vector graphics in Inkscape at least takes care of the scaling in a graceful way, except I didn't find a good vector falcon, so I left that one as-is.

 

Edit:

 

The dragon looks untidy. Not because of your renditions which are brilliant, but because the design itself is untidy. You'd need a much simpler dragon for that counter-changing to work visually IMO. Get on it, Josh!

 

True, I had trouble finding a clean enough oak tree as well (thank you, Municipality of Marthalen). Preferably there shouldn't be any detail inside the charge when it's counter-changed, I think.

Edited May 6, 2014 by KazikluBey

[Hormalakh]

This is ****ing awesome guys. I'm really glad Obsidian went all out in terms of getting some hardcore lore in here. It'll be cool to see some heralds with PoE-specific animals/items in there. Like the Staelgar, for example.

[Amentep]

Nice work Suburban-Fox and KazikluBey, I'd worked out what the first one should have looked like but never had time to try and set anything down. Nice to see them realized.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Amentep

[Nonek]

Nice work chaps.