Is there gonna be rag doll physics?

[Malignacious]

This might seem nitpicky but for an isometric game, ragdoll physics is quite important. I've always felt that a game feels flat without it.

That's why I preferred Diablo 3 over Path of Exile despite the latter being far superior in many areas. Same with Torchlight 2.

 

You really need that procedural grounding element of physicality to make things more authentic and enjoyable.

 

I kinda assumed there would be ragdoll physics since Dungeon Siege 3 also had it but is this really the case?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Malignacious

[Sabotin]

I have to disagree with that, I've always found ragdoll physics to be weird. I can't really put my finger on it but it just feels "unnatural", even more so than death animations for me.

[rjshae]

At the viewing scale of this game it's probably not that important. A death animation will likely suffice.

[Ffordesoon]

This might seem nitpicky but for an isometric game, ragdoll physics is quite important. I've always felt that a game feels flat without it.

That's why I preferred Diablo 3 over Path of Exile despite the latter being far superior in many areas. Same with Torchlight 2.

 

You really need that procedural grounding element of physicality to make things more authentic and enjoyable.

 

I kinda assumed there would be ragdoll physics since Dungeon Siege 3 also had it but is this really the case?

I doubt it. Ragdoll physics practically require expensive middleware and are rarely implemented well. Plus, they lend a feeling of weightlessness to combat that only works if you want the player to feel powerful with every single kill. That works for Diablo 3, but not so much for a successor to the IE games.

[Malignacious]

That's a disappointment, I really wish this would become a standard in all games.

[ReyVagabond]

Also this is a 2d game with 3d character models.

 

So having ragdoll effect, with no real up and down, in not something you can do.

[Malignacious]

Btw, if they had ragdoll physics they wouldn't have to make death animations, wouldn't that save a lot of work?

[Lephys]

I'm with Sabotin. Ragdoll physics is always quite strange to me. Gravity and such never seems to work right, because everything's just too darned consistent. And you end up with those people who die and fall down in REALLY awkward poses that don't make any sense, etc. Very unnatural. A good example is first person shooters: a game that uses ragdoll physics versus, say, Call of Duty. Even though Call of Duty just has people go through death animations instead of actually being propelled by grenades and such (at least, the last one I played -- Modern Warfare 2 -- did), and sometimes that doesn't quite look realistic, the actual animation they go through is at least believable by itself. Whereas, sometimes in another game, when you die to a grenade, you just immediately go limp and flail about as you sail through the air like a dog's chew toy, crashing into a wall as though you're not even made out of human meat at all, but instead wood.

 

I think well-polished specific animations are fine. With maybe a sprinkle of actual physics effects, for seasoning. It's always a nice touch when we kind of get the idea that physics is dynamically at work in the game world. But, it just seems like trying to simulate exact physics ends up failing.

[Hassat Hunter]

Hey, phyics are awesome in Goat Simulator man!

 

But yeah, I don't really see the added worht for PoE and agree it does usually feel weird in 2D environments...

[nikolokolus]

This isn't a 3D game, so how the hell are ragdoll physics supposed to work exactly in a 2.5D environment with nothing to bounce off of?

 

As long as the death animation is somewhat believable my "immershun" will be just fine.

[Malignacious]

This isn't a 3D game, so how the hell are ragdoll physics supposed to work exactly in a 2.5D environment with nothing to bounce off of?

 

As long as the death animation is somewhat believable my "immershun" will be just fine.

 

And how come Obsidian didn't use the excellent Dungeon Siege 3 engine for this game, is it a property of Square Enix or something?

[MReed]

And how come Obsidian didn't use the excellent Dungeon Siege 3 engine for this game, is it a property of Square Enix or something?

 

 

Because the people who backed this game were specifically offered and wanted a game with 2d, pre-rendered backgrounds rather than a fully 3d game.

[Amentep]

 

And how come Obsidian didn't use the excellent Dungeon Siege 3 engine for this game, is it a property of Square Enix or something?

 

Because the people who backed this game were specifically offered and wanted a game with 2d, pre-rendered backgrounds rather than a fully 3d game.

 

IIRC the stated reason was that the DS3 engine, Onyx, required the use of middleware that was too expensive to use with regard to their Kickstarter funding even though Obsidian owned the Onyx engine as they created it. So they went with Unity which gave them everything they needed without the cost problems Onyx presented.

 

Given that IIRC Onyx was used for South Park: Stick of Truth, I'm not sure if cost hadn't been an issue if they couldn't have adapted Onyx to do a 2d, prerendered background

[Malignacious]

I think that was a mistake, much is lost when there is no physicality in a game.

[Amentep]

Well my understanding is they just couldn't afford to use anything but Unity.

 

That said, since IIRC they're using 3d Lighting effects and a 3d wireframe map, are we sure they couldn't use that if they wanted to use Ragdoll Physics? (I just don't know enough about that to know one way or the other).

Edited April 25, 2014 by Amentep

[Malekith]

I think that was a mistake, much is lost when there is no physicality in a game.

Not realy.

[rjshae]

I have to disagree with that, I've always found ragdoll physics to be weird. I can't really put my finger on it but it just feels "unnatural", even more so than death animations for me.

 

Realistic ragdoll physics would need to take into account muscle and tendon flexibility, as well as the compressibility of the various body parts. That's a much more expensive computing problem.

[MReed]

Well my understanding is they just couldn't afford to use anything but Unity.

 

That said, since IIRC they're using 3d Lighting effects and a 3d wireframe map, are we sure they couldn't use that if they wanted to use Ragdoll Physics? (I just don't know enough about that to know one way or the other).

 

Technically speaking, the answer is yes, but beyond the cost issues the fact that the world isn't really 3D creates some major immersion problems.  The only reason to have rag doll physics is because enemies are being tossed about by powerful effects, and the lack of full 3D geometry for the world would produce inappropriate effects.  For example, any place that the player is blocked from walking on would be treated as an invisible wall that enemies could bounce off of -- but visually, the obstacle might be a pile of crates, a cart, or any number of obstacles that (while they would block walking) wouldn't block a flying body.

 

Obviously, patches / fixes could be implemented to work around these issues (that's what the devs are doing with shadows, for example), but that's an awful lot of effort for an effect that isn't core to the gaming experience.

[Amentep]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

 

But then I was always okay with death animations (or knocking unconscious animations) anyhow.

[Sheikh]

Ragdoll physics is somewhat strange, but also better than nothing in my opinion.

 

On the other hand I would not find them necessary in a game like this.

[Lephys]

Ragdoll physics is somewhat strange, but also better than nothing in my opinion.

With this I am in agreement. However, there are more alternatives than just nothing.

[Chippy]

I have to disagree with that, I've always found ragdoll physics to be weird. I can't really put my finger on it but it just feels "unnatural", even more so than death animations for me.

 

The only game I've played where it worked for me was Warhammer: Mark of Chaos, it was realistic and funny at the same time.  Explosions, hurling enemies from castle ramparts, etc.  Also: Severance Blade of Darkness was pretty good for an older game.  

One thing I think this does is add a certain style to the game - it tends to become more anime (like the animations in Dragon Age 2), or 80's action movie, (add other comparison here) etc.  It can be fun though.  If it adds a mechanic to the game, even better. Like Assassins Creed having you kill an enemy, they fall in a guard patrol route... 

[Sheikh]

 

Ragdoll physics is somewhat strange, but also better than nothing in my opinion.

With this I am in agreement. However, there are more alternatives than just nothing.

 

Pre-made animations are not what I call something.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Sheikh

[Lephys]

Pre-made animations are not what I call something.

And yet they have the potential to simulate physics to an extent, without any actual ragdoll physics being used.

 

They're not something because I'd call them something. They're something because they're objectively an alternative that can meet the desired goal to some extent, much better than "nothing" can.

[nikolokolus]

I think that was a mistake, much is lost when there is no physicality in a game.

 

Totally. I mean, like if my warrior can't like totally bash in some dude's skull and watch him go flying across the room, I like can't get into it man.

 

If PoE doesn't play like Tekken I'm like totally gonna be mad bro.