International Women's Day!

[obyknven]

We begin celebrate 8 March!

http://www.internationalwomensday.com/

[insidious89]

Let all men educate themselves by reading this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States
 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So Asians make more $ than everyone else?

 

White people are no longer privileged.

[BruceVC]

Let all men educate themselves by reading this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

 

 

Relevant post, but it still highlights the obvious income  gap in the USA. Loads of work still to do

[BruceVC]

So Asians make more $ than everyone else?

 

White people are no longer privileged.

 

No Kaine, even though you could get that information from the graph the purpose of it is to highligh the income gap difference between men and women

[Keyrock]

Pfft, women will never be equal with us men because we can pee while standing up. 

 

/puts on flame proof suit

 

[Orogun01]

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

[BruceVC]

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

 

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

I assume real ? Surly you don't expect some kind of subterfuge

[Blarghagh]

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

 

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Why would you say that? I haven't seen anything that would indicate she's not real.

Edited March 8, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[BruceVC]

 

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

 

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Why would you say that? I haven't seen anything that would indicate she's not real.

 

 

I agree, also this is one of the best days to raise issues around gender inequality.

 

Our Womens Day is in August and its a very significant day due to societal problems like the high levels of violence aagainst women in South Africa

[HoonDing]

So this is Ladies Night, but an entire day?

[insidious89]

 

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Take it up with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

 

So this is Ladies Night, but an entire day?

 

 

 

 

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Why would you say that? I haven't seen anything that would indicate she's not real.

 

 

I agree, also this is one of the best days to raise issues around gender inequality.

 

Our Womens Day is in August and its a very significant day due to societal problems like the high levels of violence aagainst women in South Africa

 

 

I just wonder, what are your thoughts on this thread:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64780-kaineparkers-hopefully-attractive-women-thread-episode-iv-a-new-grope/

Is it objectifying?

Edited March 8, 2014 by insidious89

[Oner]

Happy Women's Day!

 

I just wonder, what are your thoughts on this thread:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64780-kaineparkers-hopefully-attractive-women-thread-episode-iv-a-new-grope/

Is it objectifying?

There's actually a male and a rodent version as well. Male is just auto-hidden because nobody posts there anymore.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64381-keyrocks-hopefully-attractive-rodent-thread/

[BruceVC]

 

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

 

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Take it up with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

 

So this is Ladies Night, but an entire day?

 

 

 

 

Didn't we already have a thread proving that that statistic was bogus?

 

Also what's the verdict on Insidious, real person or just another elaborate troll?

 

Why would you say that? I haven't seen anything that would indicate she's not real.

 

 

I agree, also this is one of the best days to raise issues around gender inequality.

 

Our Womens Day is in August and its a very significant day due to societal problems like the high levels of violence aagainst women in South Africa

 

 

I just wonder, what are your thoughts on this thread:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64780-kaineparkers-hopefully-attractive-women-thread-episode-iv-a-new-grope/

 

Is it objectifying?

 

 

Its an interesting question. Those people that know me on these forums know I'm very vocal in my support (some would say annoying )of various social justice issues, the main ones I tend to raise is sexism ( and the objectification of women is part of that) and homophobia

 

I have learnt through the years that at times you are dealing with ingrained stereotypes that people have around certain topics and you need to choose you battles and also debate in a certain way, you end up achieving more that way. Men will always look at attractive women and be interested in pictures of them, its one of the things that will never change. I don't know if that thread does objectify women? One response could be  "yes" but then I have to ask " do we really want to live in a world  where men feel guilty about appreciating the aesthetics of a lady"

 

Sorry if my answer is vague

[ShadySands]

Happy Women's Day!

[Fighter]

Happy Women's Day!

 

 

Is it objectifying?

 

No. It takes more to consider a woman a thing and not a person than to look at her sexually.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Fighter

[Mor]

Happy Women's Day!

[Orogun01]

Take it up with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

That in no way seems to be a retort of the point I raised; the gender pay gap is due to women choosing safe jobs instead of the high paying ones.

I just wonder, what are your thoughts on this thread:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64780-kaineparkers-hopefully-attractive-women-thread-episode-iv-a-new-grope/

 

Is it objectifying?

We had one for men a long time ago, it died soon and didn't get a revive due to lack of interests. Maybe you would care to open one for ladies.

 

Also, what's so wrong about objectifying?

[Elerond]

 

Take it up with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

That in no way seems to be a retort of the point I raised; the gender pay gap is due to women choosing safe jobs instead of the high paying ones.

 

 

 

They aren't necessary safe jobs that they choose, but many jobs that have women as majority in labor force aren't seen as important as jobs where men are majority of labor force. For example majority of registered nurses are women and it's job that need higher education and is quite important for society, but still nurses salaries are generally lower than many jobs which need same level education and are much less important for society, but have majority of their work force consisting of men.

 

There is two different issues when we speak about gender pay gap, one is question do women and men get paid same for same job, when they have same education and second is question is there systematic difference how society values jobs that are done by mainly men to those that are done by mainly women and how society encourage people to gravitate towards specific career (mainly is there difference between genders what careers are seen suitable for them) . 

 

In today problems with first issue aren't that there is actual pay gap between genders in same job, but that women often need better education and longer career to get better paid jobs than their male counter parts, which causes that women total earning from their career are often less than their male counterparts. Second issue is larger issue than pay gap difference and it's quite hard to solve as those jobs that have women majority in their work force are usually such that they need someone to do them, and when women are encouraged to educate themselves in jobs that have men as majority of their work force that causes labor shortage in those "women's" jobs, which in capitalistic society should mean that salary in those jobs should rise, but more often than not, that labor shortage has been fulfilled by getting labor from countries with lower income levels, which has lead that pay difference with "women" jobs and "men's" jobs has steadily increased to point where many "women's"  job that need higher education have lower salaries than "men's" jobs that need lower education. Which of course has caused many immigrants choose to do them instead of those jobs why they were wanted in first place and this is solved with more immigration instead of of actual rise of salaries and this loop has continued now decades causing that men start losing their jobs for immigrants that are ready to do their jobs with smaller salary and this is ironically raised issue that "women's" job should have higher salaries that women would be more interested to do them and then we could lower our immigration numbers so that immigrants don't "steal" "men's" jobs from men.

 

 

Of course my view is primary about how things are  here in Finland, but I think that USA and other "western" countries have somewhat similar situation, where society in some reason gives less value for those jobs that are mainly done by women, which causes several issues society wide.

[Orogun01]

Here's the thing, are male nurses payed more than female nurses?

The way that feminists word their argument would make it seem so, they seem to willfully obscure the fact that the so called gender gap is across different fields.

Anyways, happy women's day and whatnot. 

[AGX-17]

Let all men educate themselves by reading this:

To suggest a man could educate himself on womens' issues (cough cough a.k.a. feminism cough cough) is fundamentally fallacious.

 

Rather than tossing about trite graphs implying female professionals in the western world are paid less than males, an issue like discursive colonialism would be more appropriate.

Edited March 9, 2014 by AGX-17

[BruceVC]

 

Let all men educate themselves by reading this:

To suggest a man could educate himself on womens' issues (cough cough a.k.a. feminism cough cough) is fundamentally fallacious.

 

Rather than tossing about trite graphs implying female professionals in the western world are paid less than males, an issue like discursive colonialism would be more appropriate.

 

 

Agx sometimes I find your posts make no sense? In this case you are just being dismissive but you have cloaked your comments in intellectualism

 

Of course a man can educate himself on womens issues, part of the problem around not adequately addressing sexism and misogyny is ignorance.

Of course  a graph can reveal facts, why is it inappropriate?

[ManifestedISO]

Haha, pseudo intellectualism. That's why half of us are here, to sound smart and make people think we know what we're talking about. And for Likes.

 

Happy Women's Day, Lara Croft, you're my one true heroine. 

[BruceVC]

Haha, pseudo intellectualism. That's why half of us are here, to sound smart and make people think we know what we're talking about. And for Likes.

 

Happy Women's Day, Lara Croft, you're my one true heroine. 

 

 

Yeah sometimes someone makes a point that sounds very informed and is difficult to understand but actually doesn't address the issue at hand

[alanschu]

Here's the thing, are male nurses payed more than female nurses?

 

The way that feminists word their argument would make it seem so, they seem to willfully obscure the fact that the so called gender gap is across different fields.

 

Anyways, happy women's day and whatnot.

There's still some issues (I don't know about nursing, specifically) in some situations.

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full

 

 

Synopsis. 

 

 

127 scientists looked at an undergraduate applicant's paperwork.  63 were told the applicant was a man named John.  64 were told the applicant was a woman named Jennifer.

 

Scientists were asked to rate the applicant based on competence, hireability, salary conferral, and mentoring scales (out of 5).  The scientists were made up of both men and women, and the results of these evaluations were based on a split based on student gender, and further split on faculty gender.  (That is, they look at how male/female students scored split by male/female faculty).

 

In all cases the effect of student gender was significant (significance meaning the difference in values were not due to random chance, as opposed to "large" or "important"), while the effect of faculty gender was NOT significant.  In other words, female faculty members were also harder on female applicants than male applicants.  The suggesting here being that there may be assumptions that people make about someone's capability based on their sex, and that it affects all people and not just men.

 

Here's a breakdown of the scores

 

Competence:

 

Male Faculty

Male applicant (M/M): 4.01

Female applicant (M/F): 3.33

 

Female Faculty

Male (F/M): 4.1

Female (F/M): 3.32

 

Hireability:

 

M/M: 3.74

M/F: 2.96

F/M: 3.92

F/F: 2.84

 

Willingness to mentor:

 

M/M: 4.74

M/F: 4.00

F/M: 4.73

F/F: 3.91

 

Salary offered:

 

M/M: $30,500

M/F: $27,100  (88.9% of Male)

F/M: $29,300

F/F: %25,000 (85.3% of Male)

 

 

The study discusses the following point:

 

 

It is noteworthy that female faculty members were just as likely as their male colleagues to favor the male student. The fact that faculty members’ bias was independent of their gender, scientific discipline, age, and tenure status suggests that it is likely unintentional, generated from widespread cultural stereotypes rather than a conscious intention to harm women

 

I think it's important to point out that stuff like this is possibly (I'd say probably) not intentional.  That is, no one is consciously suggesting that the woman is less qualified simply because she's a woman.

Edited March 9, 2014 by alanschu