aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys create a workspace where many women feel uncomfortable. If you don't believe me, ask any woman working in those fields. That's some view of men working in STEM that they are mostly 'nerd boys' and are socially inept and 'entitlement issue-laden' (which I suppose one can work anything into). The word you are looking for is... "realistic" So they have been conditioned to believe that those jobs are only for "socially inept and entitlement issue laden nerd boys"? Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Socially inept and entitlement issue-laden nerd boys create a workspace where many women feel uncomfortable. If you don't believe me, ask any woman working in those fields. Implication that there is a relationship between sex and personality issues and social skills development. What you did there. I see it. Good for you, because I don't "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Malcador Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Well, if it were realistic I'd have encountered it by now, most have been pretty socially capable and decent enough people overall regardless of their gender. Though I suppose some are overly no-nonsense, which some can't handle. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Well, if it were realistic I'd have encountered it by now, most have been pretty socially capable and decent enough people overall regardless of their gender. Though I suppose some are overly no-nonsense, which some can't handle. Depends on the field, I guess. Most females I know who went into CS, however, tend to complain. Anecdotical evidence, I know, but I'm prone to valuing women's accounts about things experienced by females more than dudes telling me How Things Are In The Real World. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
213374U Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Well, if it were realistic I'd have encountered it by now, most have been pretty socially capable and decent enough people overall regardless of their gender. Though I suppose some are overly no-nonsense, which some can't handle. Depends on the field, I guess. Most females I know who went into CS, however, tend to complain. Anecdotical evidence, I know, but I'm prone to valuing women's accounts about things experienced by females more than dudes telling me How Things Are In The Real World. Because females are completely impartial, uninvolved and free of issues by virtue of being female. Sounds legit. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Malcador Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Well, just pointing out that it's not 'most', so not sure what your last sentence is on about. But you also have to consider the unhappy speak louder than the rest, as well, like with games, heh. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Because females are completely impartial, uninvolved and free of issues by virtue of being female. Sounds legit. I know this notion may sound radical, but... women generally have first-hand experience of what women experience. I'll step even further: women working in STEM fields may know better what the women who work in STEM fields experience! Who would have thought! "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Gfted1 Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Nah, they are just "conditioned" and "uncomfortable". "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
213374U Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Because females are completely impartial, uninvolved and free of issues by virtue of being female. Sounds legit. I know this notion may sound radical, but... women generally have first-hand experience of what women experience. I'll step even further: women working in STEM fields may know better what the women who work in STEM fields experience! Who would have thought! I didn't dismiss their experiences. The way they interpret these experiences relative to themselves and the way they relate that to others is what is suspect. You are making the choice to place more value on the experiences of women as related by women, because they are women, than experiences of men as related by men, because they are men. "Entitlement issue-laden nerd-boys" is a frankly disparaging term, but for some reason much more acceptable than referring to women not wanting to work in high-stress, highly competitive male-dominated environments as duplicitous arrivistes with deep-seated insecurity issues that prevent them from clicking in with the established work ethic. See what I did there? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Enoch Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 So they have been conditioned to believe that those jobs are only for "socially inept and entitlement issue laden nerd boys"? Nope, they've been conditioned to believe that "girls aren't good at math", which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many also had their choices constrained earlier in their education, even if they showed an interest. This is less the case recently, but there are still a lot of women in the workforce for whom the decision was binary: A girl who does well in school can be whatever she wants, just as long as she wants to be a nurse or a teacher. (I know at least one woman who was explicitly asked this question by her high school guidance counselor, as recently as the 1980s.) 1
LadyCrimson Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 So, do most men actually want to work in high-stress, very competitive (maybe even "cutthroat") jobs? Or are they also conditioned in that they must do so or be considered a failure, if only because of annual income potentials? I get the stereotype that men may generally be more competitive in nature, which could lead them into wanting different types of vocations, but most of the guys I know would much rather just do their 8 hours, go home, crack a beer, and relax (or go hang out with friends etc). Not spend 14 hours a day at the office or be on-call all the time so they can never have a real vacation/never see their kids etc. 2 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Mor Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 You make it sound as if there is a choice. Work 14 hours a day in the office OR work 8 hours, go home, crack a beer, relax, hang out with friends, see kids etc... To spice things up lets add bills, taxes and kids to the equation. For example many choose to work crazy hours so that their other half wouldn't have too, so that at least one of them would be home with kids most of the time. Because Kids grow better when they are looked after and get attention. 1
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Ever watch TV shows targeted at women? Enough said. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
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