Stephen Fry destroys Russia

[obyknven]

 

I am acutely aware of that, but whenever such a creature makes it into a position of power, I am shocked. This shouldn't become the norm.

 

Position of power

[213374U]

The only shocking revelation here is that this guy is actually flaunting his beliefs, and at the same time is not articulate enough—in English—to assemble anything but a paper-thin defense of his stance ("scientific figures published by, uh... scientists!" LOL). Most elected officials are simply a tad smarter—just about enough to make nice and pretend they care about the peasants they tread on.

[obyknven]

Google says it's Esperanto for 'hysteria'. In the accusative, as it were. 

This is ancient Roman name for actors, dancers, singers. Romans consider this profession as very pathetic, job for slaves and degradated plebs, jobs don't different from prostitution or gladiator fights. 

In later times status of this profession is not better. European word "Minstrel" originated from latin word "ministerialis" = servant. They do nothing real or useful, they just make rude pleasure to crowd ( or master ), as prostitutes do also, nobody don't have respect for them...

And such people is idols of modern western society, it's looks really strange for me ( I yet can remeber time when we have cult of scientists/explorers (cosmonauts)/medics/writers/warriors instead of this  ).

[TrashMan]

...

 

Did.... did  obyknven just make sense?

[213374U]

Looks that way. I'd say calling Fry an idol is a bit of a stretch, though—but there are other examples. There's an interesting book by Vargas Llosa, "La civilización del espectáculo" ("The showbiz civilization") that goes at length about this. Not sure it's been translated, though.

 

I wonder, however. Why is Fry going to Russia when there's plenty of fun to be had at home, with, for instance, the anti-gay segregation bill in Kansas?

[Rosbjerg]

"Progressive" people that in the end, are just as much a slave of dogma (of a different kind) as the people they are "tearing down"

 

Very true, but generally I think we'd be better off with the kind of slave dogma that demands tolerance and social stigmatize those that disagree than one that aggressively coerces and segregates.

[Malcador]

Very true, but generally I think we'd be better off with the kind of slave dogma that demands tolerance and social stigmatize those that disagree than one that aggressively coerces and segregates.

Both of those options seem the same.

[Cultist]

Sometimes even religious idiots have their use.  You can have no more of a cat but her skin. This law will serve its purpose even if proposed by a fundie. He is a useful candidate for a scapegoat - make him a laughing stock for press yet the law have passed. Fundie will suffer the consequences and others could execute the law. It's a win-win situation.

 

It took me approx three posts for previous topic to be closed by the mods. Telling your opinion when being forbidden to actually express your opinion is a funny experience.

[Meshugger]

Fry is a smug, irritating **** but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

The guy is wonderful in QI. Especially when Alan's wisecracking drives him nuts

 

Speaking of being a wiseguy, the only way to troll Oby is to convince him that Stephen is more russian than the other guy.

[BruceVC]

om

The only shocking revelation here is that this guy is actually flaunting his beliefs, and at the same time is not articulate enough—in English—to assemble anything but a paper-thin defense of his stance ("scientific figures published by, uh... scientists!" LOL). Most elected officials are simply a tad smarter—just about enough to make nice and pretend they care about the peasants they tread on.

 

No there is a lot more at stake here than this guy just flaunting his opinion. He was the primary contributor towards the homophobic legislation that is law in Russia. He bigotry has been echoed by many other Russian ministers and we are seeing that filter down to people on the street who can perpetuate hate crimes against gay  people without fear of any real prosecution.

 

We now see comments from the major of Sochi like "there are no gays in Sochi" and that example of corrective rape of that women that Fry mentions. But there are many other cases of violence and discrimination against gay people in Russia. I watched a documentary on CNN recently  that discusses the rise of this type of violence.

 

That's the problem where you have a law that legalizes bigotry. The consequences for the people being targeted are extreme and serious and go far beyond what the  actual law pretends to protect or address

[213374U]

 

Very true, but generally I think we'd be better off with the kind of slave dogma that demands tolerance and social stigmatize those that disagree than one that aggressively coerces and segregates.

Both of those options seem the same.

 

 

You really need to post more.

 

 

 

@BruceVC: Not sure how that relates to what I said. Homeboy is a homophobic douche and doesn't mind being vocal about it. That's the only difference between him and other politicians at home and abroad that are also homophobic/xenophobic/elitist capitalist douches but simply coat their words (and their legislative initiatives) with a layer of politically correct vaseline before ramming them up society's ass. Case in point, the Kansas bill I linked in the other post. Fun times, man.

Edited February 18, 2014 by 213374U

[BruceVC]

n

 

 

Very true, but generally I think we'd be better off with the kind of slave dogma that demands tolerance and social stigmatize those that disagree than one that aggressively coerces and segregates.

Both of those options seem the same.

 

 

You really need to post more.

 

 

 

@BruceVC: Not sure how that relates to what I said. Homeboy is a homophobic douche and doesn't mind being vocal about it. That's the only difference between him and other politicians at home and abroad that are also homophobic/xenophobic/elitist capitalist douches but simply coat their words (and their legislative initiatives) with a layer of politically correct vaseline before ramming them up society's ass. Case in point, the Kansas bill I linked in the other post. Fun times, man.

 

 

Okay I see what you mean, I did misunderstand you. Valid point, but in Western countries you generally don't see new legislation that promotes homophobia. In fact most Western countries are moving more and more away from laws that discriminate against gay people. Russia seems to be going backwards with this new legislation

[BruceVC]

Also that Kansas bill you linked is very concerning, is this something that a state can really do and can the federal government intervene

 

For those who haven't read it I suggest you do, the depths of its homophobia can't be legal in the USA...surly? I would like our American members to comment to see what they think about the legitimacy of this bill?

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_gay_segregation_bill_is_an_abomination.html

[ShadySands]

It didn't pass

 

and if it did I'm sure it would have quickly been repealed 

 

I'm always amused by the argument that we have to be tolerant of religious intolerance 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[BruceVC]

It didn't pass

 

and if it did I'm sure it would have quickly been repealed 

 

I'm always amused by the argument that we have to be tolerant of religious intolerance 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

 

That's really good news and you've just made my "best good news" post of the week. I thought the bill seemed completely incongruous to the general movement we are seeing in the USA throughout most of the states where gay rights are becoming legalised in several areas like the acceptance of same sex marriage

[Zoraptor]

I'm always amused by the argument that we have to be tolerant of religious intolerance

There's a difference between being tolerant and kowtowing to every viewpoint. You can allow people to worship in whatever manner they want/ say what they want, without agreeing with them or allowing them to inflict their views on anyone else- indeed, tolerance does not mean you have to keep your mouth shut when you disagree, just that you accept you don't have the right to force others to your viewpoint. The worst sort of intolerance is the sort that is dressed up in the vestments of tolerance, which claims to be doing stuff 'for the greater good' (the greater good), whether it be someone trying to save your eternal soul from damnation or something else. Oddly enough, Stephen Fry himself has one of the more widely quoted quotes on the matter and subject of people being 'offended'.

[Tagaziel]

(the greater good)

Shut it.