Can I even handle a game like PE any longer? Well, I sure hope so!

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

My points apply to Path of the Damned; more enemies = more loot. It seems you're assuming that their breastplates/hides won't be worth anything though. You are talking about trash fights correct?

 

There were never more enemies, they were just strong as ****. Path of the damned will replace ordinary enemies with a more dangerous type of enemies, I don't think that the numbers will increase. Yeah usually non npc enemies don't drop valuable items, also there are no trash mobs/fights in path of the damned (or at least there shouldn't be if they plan on it being a spiritual successor to HoF).

 

 

 

My points apply to Path of the Damned; more enemies = more loot. It seems you're assuming that their breastplates/hides won't be worth anything though. You are talking about trash fights correct?

 

There were never more enemies, they were just strong as ****. Path of the damned will replace ordinary enemies with a more dangerous type of enemies, I don't think that the numbers will increase. Yeah usually non npc enemies don't drop valuable items, also there are no trash mobs/fights in path of the damned (or at least there shouldn't be if they plan on it being a spiritual successor to HoF).

 

 

There are definitely trash fights in HoF. But much of HoF was just HP bloating. Replacing different enemy types with more dangerous ones will have to come with better loot equipped, or have an increase in numbers (without kill xp, that would hardly break anything) as there is no level scaling. So there will still be income (incentive) to be had for fighting those, income that can be used to upgrade the party in question for tougher encounters, earlier. 

 

As far as BG is concerned, the main source of income were from trash fights that dropped armor and ammo. 

[Sarex]

You guys are the hipsters, "well it wasn't done this way in the infinity engine games so it must be bad."

 

No, it just that picking a dialog option isn't skillful or hard at all, nor does it make you a smart player as some people on this board seem to think, but that is another story.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Sarex

[Fatback]

But why shouldn't you get experience using skillful diologe choices. It's not like your effected or have to worry about someone else who likes to role play a negotiator. And if you didn't get exp for it and you wanted to rp a negotiator on an alt play threw and by the time you get to end were under leveled half of you would be back on forums qqing about that. So just relax.

[Sarex]

 

There are definitely trash fights in HoF. But much of HoF was just HP bloating. Replacing different enemy types with more dangerous ones will have to come with better loot equipped, or have an increase in numbers (without kill xp, that would hardly break anything) as there is no level scaling. So there will still be income (incentive) to be had for fighting those, income that can be used to upgrade the party in question for tougher encounters, earlier. 

 

As far as BG is concerned, the main source of income were from trash fights that dropped armor and ammo. 

 

 

Now you are just talking out of your ass, how do you know that those different type of enemies will come with better loot. You are just making stuff up now to support you theories.

 

My BG gold hoard came from selling non generic items, I collected generic weapons and armors only in the beginning of the game.

[Metabot]

 

You guys are the hipsters, "well it wasn't done this way in the infinity engine games so it must be bad."

 

No, it just that picking a dialog option isn't skillful or hard at all. Nor does it make you a smart player as some people on this board seem to think, but that is another story.

 

 

Hmm not sure anyone is saying that clicking a dialogue option is "hard". 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This again?

 

If the only enjoyment you get out of combat is getting XP, then you should probably play something else.

 

If it pisses you off that PoE will not have combat be rewarded with XP, then I suggest you get laid.

Edited January 19, 2014 by KaineParker

[PrimeJunta]

Annd... let the butthurt recommence.

[Sarex]

Hmm not sure anyone is saying that clicking a dialogue option is "hard".

 

Thus my conundrum about how they are going to implement those options in path of the damned.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

 

There are definitely trash fights in HoF. But much of HoF was just HP bloating. Replacing different enemy types with more dangerous ones will have to come with better loot equipped, or have an increase in numbers (without kill xp, that would hardly break anything) as there is no level scaling. So there will still be income (incentive) to be had for fighting those, income that can be used to upgrade the party in question for tougher encounters, earlier. 

 

As far as BG is concerned, the main source of income were from trash fights that dropped armor and ammo. 

 

 

Now you are just talking out of your ass, how do you know that those different type of enemies will come with better loot. You are just making stuff up now to support you theories.

 

My BG gold hoard came from selling non generic items, I collected generic weapons and armors only in the beginning of the game.

 

 

I was just following your lead since you were assuming every trash fight would be dropping just a "couple of gold". 

 

And if you're seeing more dangerous enemy types it's just logical conclusion that they would be equipped with better gear. e.q Wolf -> Winter Wolf .  Gibberling  --> Kobold fighter in plate .

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Then I don't understand how path of the damned is going to work? If it's a spiritual successor to IWD Heart of Fury mode, how are they going to make the choice of talking your way out of a fight harder and how is it going to be equal to busting your ass off in choosing to fight (Heart of Fury had bigger xp rewards).

 

I'd like to know this as well. Given that Obsidian has said you can negotiate or sneak past enemies and still get xp, then I'd be avoiding fights in these harder modes, especially if the loot they have is trash.

[Sarex]

I was just following your lead since you were assuming every trash fight would be dropping just a "couple of gold". 

 

And if you're seeing more dangerous enemy types it's just logical conclusion that they would be equipped with better gear. e.q Wolf -> Winter Wolf .  Gibberling  --> Kobold fighter in plate .

 

I was relating to my experience in IWD2, in HoF there where no better weapons/armor being dropped by non npc enemies. So when they said PotD is a spiritual successor of HoF I was connecting the dots, you where just making stuff up. Also didn't I already say that when playing in this difficulty non + items are trash (past early game) and not worth the trouble?

Edited January 19, 2014 by Sarex

[Monte Carlo]

I have been called all sorts of things on this forum, but never a hipster.

 

[Monte Carlo]

Maybe they'll have really hardcore, obscure, hipster dialogue options.

 

Heart of Fury (Dialogue)...

 

Dragon: "Bwahahahahaha I will toast you with my flaming breath!!!"

 

Charname: "I think not!"

 

Dragon: "Why?"

 

Charname: "I dump-statted points into Charisma and Persuade, cuz I'm that cool!"

 

Dragon: *dies*

 

+ 2000 XP

 

CHARNAME:

 

[Metabot]

Edited January 19, 2014 by Metabot

[Monte Carlo]

Nice try.

[Metabot]

 

 

I was just following your lead since you were assuming every trash fight would be dropping just a "couple of gold".

 

And if you're seeing more dangerous enemy types it's just logical conclusion that they would be equipped with better gear. e.q Wolf -> Winter Wolf . Gibberling --> Kobold fighter in plate .

I was relating to my experience in IWD2, in HoF there where no better weapons/armor being dropped by non npc enemies. So when they said PotD is a spiritual successor of HoF I was connecting the dots, you where just making stuff up. Also didn't I already say that when playing in this difficulty non + items are trash (past early game) and not worth the trouble?

Sooooo in your head potd will be exactly like hof in every single way? Jump to conclusions much?

[Sarex]

Sooooo in your head potd will be exactly like hof in every single way? Jump to conclusions much?

 

What part of spiritual successor do you not understand? Also where did I say it will be exactly the same? Making up stuff much? Annoying ain't it?

Edited January 19, 2014 by Sarex

[Metabot]

 

Sooooo in your head potd will be exactly like hof in every single way? Jump to conclusions much?

 

What part of spiritual successor do you not understand? Also where did I say it will be exactly the same? Making up stuff much? Annoying ain't it?

 

 

Sorry bro but you're making way too many assumptions. "Spiritual successor" doesn't mean alike in every way. They're building the game from the ground up for only getting exp from completing quest objectives. That's the way it is.

[Stun]

 

I was relating to my experience in IWD2, in HoF there where no better weapons/armor being dropped by non npc enemies. So when they said PotD is a spiritual successor of HoF I was connecting the dots, you where just making stuff up. Also didn't I already say that when playing in this difficulty non + items are trash (past early game) and not worth the trouble?

Sooooo in your head potd will be exactly like hof in every single way? Jump to conclusions much?

 

To be fair, they DID name drop HOF mode, specifically. Why would they do that if the intention is to make it different in just about every way that matters?

 

Btw, lets make some things clear about IWD/IWD2's heart of fury mode.

 

 

In HoF:

1) The number of enemies is dramatically increased

2) The EXP rewards are dramatically increased

3) NPCs are dramatically bloated (in both their health, their saves, and in the damage they do)

4) The loot they drop often IS better. One example (of many in the game), In IWD2, when you kill Sherincal, she drops her fancy 2-handed sword. But depending on the difficulty setting, that sword's stats are radically different. On Normal It's an average powered Greatsword (it's +3 and does 1-6 electrical damage) In HOF mode, her sword is +5, Keen, and does a shocking burst for 2D8 damage.

 

Now lets look at that list again. Will POE's Path of the Dammed have any of this? Well, we know it won't have #2. And They've said nothing about #1. #3 we're obviously not getting because they're decided on a system that will give us a different enemy, instead of a more powerful version of the same enemy. As for #4, this is the one that most concerns me. They've said nothing about it, and logically we can assume that if we get different enemies, then we're probably getting different loot. (it would be silly for a mage in Path of the Damned to drop the same armor and melee weapon that the warrior he replaced from normal mode drops.)

Edited January 19, 2014 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Being able to sell their stuff is already incentive compared to the violence-free no loot option.  

 

Taking the violence-free option doesn't mean you don't get any loot. All it means is you don't 'all' the loot that you could have got if you fought your way through the game. If the violence-free option equates to the majority of the loot in the game, then you'll still get loot to sell. And with that income, you'll buy good items from merchants. So I don't see being able to sell stuff as an incentive to get into a fight, especially on Path of the Damned mode.

 

Also, one of the hardest parts of HoF mode in IWD was the early levels when you were very squishy. The beetles and Goblins at the start helped you level up but it was still a hard fight with the Goblins. Now with PoE, it seems you can simply talk or sneak your way past those encounters and level up.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Metabot]

If you could find the quote it might help. But, no, I don't think it'll be exactly like HoF in every way. I'm guessing they meant to allude to the difficulty in general. I don't think they're going to bloat enemies' HP in exactly the same proportions as was done in HoF or anything like that. 

[milczyciel]

My God... I have to admit that I gave up at 12th page after spending "likes" on left and right, many times contradicting ones I did few minutes back (but never claiming back those I already did). Not because I'm a chop and change (or maybe? who am I to judge myself) but because I saw most of them as totally valid.

Even after someone with considerably different mindset approached them, and proved how it does not affect their "gaming experience".

 

I have to admit - all that talking strongly reinforced the assumption I made once, some months ago, that I shouldn't concern myself about mechanics. At all.

In the end I played and enjoyed so many different games over the past 20 years, that I should be O.K. with PoE even if it will turn out to be something like Dink Smallwod, which in fact I enjoyed. And I think we can agree that it won't. Bah, even if it will somehow end screwed up in the most horrible way*, I'll still be able to lower down the difficulty (or use console?) and just ram through, enjoying the story and making notes for the second playthrough. And being who I am, I can't care less about if that's a flawed way to play as it boils down to me, not being forced into doing something I don't want to.

 

Sure, I could spent another hour trying to point out how I share some sentiments (for example Stun's about pre-buffing) but then again how I pretty much agree with those, who disliked them, because of the way they were implemented in most cases. I could try to explain, that even without a proper aDnD education I was still able to pull of the satisfying games from every build I made at "normal" difficulty of BG (and believe me, I'm the walking definition of mediocre on every level of my gaming) and then wholeheartedly support concerns of PJ coming from his failed attempt in NWN2. Also, I could probably tackle the issues of save scumming or any other system abuse, players will eventually come up with.

I could try and do so much more, but should I, if so many of You did it far better than I can ever hope for among those 22(and counting) pages?

 

Thus, all I can do is sincerely thank You (special thanks goes for Nonek), for making me realize in the course of Your heated discussion, that I really don't care that much about it's gears, as long as the game itself ends up:

a) text heavy (at least in comparison to nowadays standards)

b) party based

c) aesthetically similar to the IE (both in art style and camera setting)

d) "choices having an impact, not necessarily on the grand scale"-ish

And given those expectations are going to be met (at least that's what I believe after reading this and that on that very forum) I feel... content. And calm.

People smarter than me are tinkering within, if they fail then how could I hope for pointing them at the right direction 

 

So right now all I ask, is some sweet time, for this particular blue collar, working his ass off 12h a day, 180-220h a month.

And rest assured it shouldn't be that hard to accomplish, given how very little of my free-time I have to (or must, depending on how you think about it) share with anyone else but my wonderful Ann.

So, bring it on - it won't be the first time I'll go to the work without a sleep! Hah, that's a luxury of being unimportant drone, not responsible for anyone's safety or well being 

 

 

* - that would be "Lionhearth: Legacy of the Crusader" in which I've met a miserable end because I assumed that a "GURPS" based game published by Black Isle will allow me to roll with a physically weak (but nimble) genius, charismatic  thief, just the way "Fallouts" did.

NOPE :D

[PrimeJunta]

The Internet needs more people like you, @milczyciel.

[tajerio]

Every time this question has come up in any of the press surrounding the game, Josh has made it abundantly clear that a pacifist playthrough won't be possible.  All I've drawn from what's been said is that some encounters can be "won" through the application of solutions other than combat.  I'm quite confident that the considerable majority of XP-giving objectives will require some combat to complete.  

 

I also don't entirely understand why it is that people seem to be assuming an "I win" dialogue button for objectives achieved without combat.  Couldn't Obsidian make the player think a bit to pick the right series of options, based on what might have been learned about the situation from the game?  Doesn't seem like that would be a stretch.  And there's not even a guarantee that the non-combat resolution method is "belly up to the guy in charge and Charisma him."  Sneaking or the application of some other skills will almost certainly be in there too.

 

Moreover, I'm pretty sure that the devs are aware of the challenges that the Path of the Damned mode poses to an objective-based XP system.  Seems to me like the complaints are really more about objective-based XP than PotD. 

[PrimeJunta]

Assuming that non-combat gameplay in an IE style game amounts to "pick the right dialog option to win" reflects a pretty serious lack of imagination IMO. We don't normally interact with the world primarily by throwing fireballs at it. Most of these interactions would be perfectly viable. Some of PoE's antecedents have even done some of them.