Seriously? What the hell?

[anameforobsidian]

We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

 

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.  Tech **** happens.

[nikolokolus]

So ... long story short, game cancelled. Right?

[Stun]

I am merely advocating transparency

Excuse my french but... Bull.

 

Both on this thread, AND in your camp out thread last week, AND in last week's mini-update, we got a Dev coming in and flat out telling you that the site isn't ready. That's transparancy by definition. Yet here you are, still unsatisfied.

 

Please do me a favor... Please.... find a way to reign it in before next june or so. Because I shudder to think of how noisy you'll get if, perish the thought, the game itself suffers a release date push-back.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Stun

[Sensuki]

Excuse me. "If the backer website wasn't ready/still buggy, then they should have said so" - is advocating transparency.

 

You obviously haven't been reading any of my posts properly, and there's a good reason why I have you on ignore.
 
I didn't make this thread, C2B did. It's not me that is dissatisfied with the delay. I didn't even think there would be an update today as I posted in the camp out thread and on the RPGCodex. However there are a plethora of people who simply fail at reading posts on the internet 101 and misinterpreted what C2B was saying and why he is upset/disappointed.
 
C2B is obviously disappointed that the site is not ready yet because he wants to see the gameplay video and because of that he feels that they should have said that it wasn't in the Update 68 official post if it wasn't ready, rather than Adam posting it in the forums. He may not have read that post.
 

Like I said in the other thread, there's nothing but "tradition" dictating that the big update must come today. I just have this gut feeling that this update is big enough to break the "updates-happen-only-on-tuesdays", thing.
Besides, it'd be so much more "dramatic" to present this update right before Thanksgiving, instead of, you know, two days before it.

 
You posted this in the camp out thread indicating that you disagreed with the simple fact that updates are always posted on Tuesdays, so there's no reason that the 'big update' will be on a Tuesday, and that it will be the day before Thanksgiving. You also thought it was going to be before Thanksgiving.
 
We had no indication until hours before the Update 68 update that it was not going to be the big update, as I said earlier, I was going by the official information that was the correct date. So don't go blaming me for hyping you up in the update thread.

 

Before this Obsidian had never missed an update (technically anyway, during the Kickstarter campaign, they did promise us a Lore update as the 'next' update, but that Lore update came about three updates later (which at the time was a week, max).

One of the devs could have came and given us the info about the delay earlier, that's no fault of mine.

Haha perhaps I'll go on a false hype train for the beta just to annoy you

 

In all seriousness though I think that I will be adopting a more pessimistic approach from now on.

 

The game also will definitely not be ready by June. Expect more an August/September release - going by their Production spreadsheet from Update 67.

 

$10 schmuck out.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Sensuki

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It's not me that is dissatisfied with the delay.

 

 

 

No, you just accused Obsidian for being deceptive which they haven't been.

 

 

 

Are you saying that you don't believe it was somewhat deceptive?

 

You never did explain how Obsidian have been somewhat deceptive. Probably because you can't.

[Sensuki]

C2B made the thread accusing them of not saying that the backer website wasn't ready in Update 68. If it wasn't ready and they didn't say so in the update then yes, that is being partially deceptive.

 

Adam posted this before the update was up.

 

 

 

We are "beta" testing the site right now internally, and Darren is hard at work ironing out issues.

 

Despite what he said earlier (fire extinguisher), that does indicate that it was still buggy last week. They didn't say so in the update which is why C2B was mad.

 

Here is what I said in the Update 68 thread for perspective.

 

 

 

I'm 50/50 about today. On one side you have Fornightly updates OCD plus more time to iron out the bugs in the software

 

vs

 

Gamebanshee having material they want published and the earlier in December - further away from Christmas thus probably gonna get more upgrade purchases as closer to Christmas people are saving that paper for gifts and ****.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Sensuki

[Jajo]

That's the reason devs should not give any info to the community. Some shmuck gives like 10$ and he's acting like an appointed ruler of the place.

 

 

 

So ... long story short, game cancelled. Right?

It should be, with backers like that I would advise any dev to not bother.

 

 

One(2, 3?) person got upset about clearly contradicting information and now there should be no information at all, nor should any information about the project directly financed by the community be shared with this community? Please, look back through nearly 70 update treads and try to draw the same conclusion again. As it is, the stupidity of your posts is overwhelming.

[Jajo]

 

Are you saying that you don't believe it was somewhat deceptive?

 

You never did explain how Obsidian have been somewhat deceptive. Probably because you can't.

 

 

Are you waiting for a dev quote explicitly stating this? You won't get it, because there is no such quote. What there is, is a logical implication. But judging from your posts, that's not for someone like you.

[IndiraLightfoot]

_{This thread oozes with unwarranted frustrations and exaggerations over a few words from the Obsidian devs that have been blown way out of proportion. They don't owe us anything, neither regular updates nor keeping deadlines they've tentatively put up. Sure, it's disappointing when you look forward to something and then that something is delayed or slightly different, but should such disappointment translate into accusations and flame wars? I for one think not.}

 

_{Having said that, I'm perversely amused by...}

 

_{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeAjISBb2U}

 

_{Definition of "nerd rage", urban dictionary:}

 

 

 

_{1. nerd rage}

_{Indignant, hysterical, and incoherent screaming brought on by video game induced frustration.}

  

[PrimeJunta]

Yo, guys. Software developer here.

 

"Missing a release date" is not the same thing as "lying."

 

Releasing stuff always has a degree of unpredictability. Eventually if you do it long enough, you'll get to the point where you can do it pretty predictably on high-priority stuff. Even so, you sometimes miss release dates on lower-priority stuff.

 

Here's a story of the kind of thing that can happen. Fictional, but very much based on how sh1t actually happens.

 

Kate, Dean, and Triss are making a game at Chris's company. In addition, they want to make a fan website. Kate is responsible for coding, Dean for UI and graphic design, and Triss for making sure everything works. Of course, their main jobs are with the game, so they agreed to do their bits for the website whenever there was a bit of slack in their schedule. 

 

Kate did the coding last summer. Dean did the graphic design in August, then got Kate to implement a few little tweaks over September. Triss made a test suite for it in October, and suggested a few improvements which required a few hours of work from Kate and Dean each. They did those on two afternoons in early November. They thought were ready to go. Then Microsoft released MSIE11, and Triss noticed that some stuff broke on it unexpectedly. Unfortunately both Kate and Dean were up to their armpits in game code at that point and couldn't get to work on it immediately. However they agreed that it was probably a little thing that could be done at the last minute, so there wasn't all that much risk of schedule slippage.

 

They went to Chris anyway to give him a heads-up. Chris agreed that it was more important to keep the main project running smoothly and OK'ed the slightly risky last-minute fix. 

 

The stuff Kate and Dean were working on the game was just a little hairier than they thought, but they pulled an all-nighter and got it done with time to spare for fixing the website problem. Which they did, and said that the site was good to go. Chris announced this on the fan forums.

 

There was just one snag. The fix broke Triss's test suite, and after their all-nighter, Kate and Dean had simply forgotten to account for that. When Triss ran the test suite, it failed spectacularly in the first test. She knew there was probably nothing wrong with the site and the tests just needed an update, but couldn't be sure. So Kate, Dean, and Triss went to Chris again. He decided not to take the risk, but deferred publication of the site until Triss's tests proved that it worked.

 

And the fans raged. 

[Sensuki]

Try 10. Nearly every update creates a drama, it's tiresome. The last sentence I could put under 90% of user posts

3. C2B, me (I'm not upset, but I am ~creating drama~) and sesobebo. That's it

 

"Missing a release date" is not the same thing as "lying."

ffs, how many times do I have to say it. He is not saying that missing the date is lying. ~_~_~_~__~

 

reading comprehension, use it.

 

The delay isn't the problem. None of us want them to release a buggy backer website. All C2B wanted from Obsidian was that if the site wasn't ready on November 27, then to say so in the update.

 

I don't understand how it's so difficult to understand that from reading his posts.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Sensuki

[Gamgee]

Wow.... guys need to learn to chill. I've backed a game that got delayed by an entire year. Need to just chill, put things in perspective. Since backing numerous things and even before then I always knew software slipped frequently. With me backing other things it's also given me experience to just be patient.

[Jajo]

 

Are you waiting for a dev quote explicitly stating this? You won't get it, because there is no such quote. What there is, is a logical implication. But judging from your posts, that's not for someone like you.

There isn't any logical implication. 

Dev's didn't want to start the website without support on holidays. In the meantime they found out there are bugs that need to be removed, so they postponed the start of the website. That's it, no deception, no lying. 

 

 

 

Relevant quotes arranged for your viewing pleasure in the chronological order they appeared (if the explanation for the delay appearing in the only thread with the upset OP isn't setting up a clear enough context):

 

No big update today. Darren still has a small handful of high priority bugs left to fix before we want to launch, and Justin Bell is still working on *something*. We are sorry it's taking so long, but we rather it be good than a bit late.

One week you're telling us one thing, which in the next doesn't seem to matter?

 

Thanks for the honesty!

 

 

 

(Just really upset about the situation. Last weeks excuse was very reasonable. This weeks laughs it in the face. Just br honest with your backers. We understand.)

We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

[Gamgee]

Wait? It only got delayed for maybe a few weeks at most? That's the impression I get. *facepalm* This is just sad.

 

Edited December 4, 2013 by Gamgee

[Prometheus]

I'm not sure why anybody expected an update this week. We have a two week update cycle for a while now. and they said last week that they were still running internal bata tests, so it's normal that if they find bugs, that they need to fix them first before releasing.

 

 

 

Relevant quotes arranged for your viewing pleasure in the chronological order they appeared (if the explanation for the delay appearing in the only thread with the upset OP isn't setting up a clear enough context):

You have forgotten this quote:

 

We are "beta" testing the site right now internally, and Darren is hard at work ironing out issues.

 

-Adam

[mcmanusaur]

 

Are you saying that you don't believe it was somewhat deceptive?

 

Not to ruin the tone of the thread, but I actually own that figurine, and boy is it quality. I'd fully recommend it to any collector of knight figurines or crusader toy enthusiast, in fact.

 

Now that I'm at it, I have a whole collection of similar ones; clonking them together fulfills all my desires for tactical party-based combat, and I think this is why I look for other things in my cRPG's.

Edited December 4, 2013 by mcmanusaur

[rustypup]

Welcome to *Molehill Mountain®! 

 

Entitled bleating!

 

Manufactured drama!

 

Conspiracy theories! 

 

It's a craaazy ride for all ages! 

 

*Molehill Mountain® is a registered trademark of the Waaaambulance Corporation. Whiny neck-beard voice sold separately.

 

It's done when it's done. I would personally prefer something relatively feature complete and stable. 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

C2B made the thread accusing them of not saying that the backer website wasn't ready in Update 68. If it wasn't ready and they didn't say so in the update then yes, that is being partially deceptive.

 

Adam posted this before the update was up.

 

No. Nice try though. Did you even read C2B's first post? Last week's update is 68. The below quote from C2B says, "Last weeks excuse was very reasonable".

 

Last week was Update 68.

C2B's quote today "Last weeks excuse was very reasonable'

 

This weeks update is basically the fan art that was posted on Monday and Adam's comments today.

 

 

One week you're telling us one thing, which in the next doesn't seem to matter?

 

Thanks for the honesty!

 

(Just really upset about the situation. Last weeks excuse was very reasonable. This weeks laughs it in the face. Just br honest with your backers. We understand.)

 

Now if C2B is referring to some other update from last week that isn't Update 68, then feel free to enlighten me.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

 

Are you waiting for a dev quote explicitly stating this? You won't get it, because there is no such quote. What there is, is a logical implication. But judging from your posts, that's not for someone like you.

 

 

Where is the logical implication? There isn't one, logical or otherwise. Last week Obsidian stated the site wouldn't be up. Full Stop. That's it.

 

There hasn't been any other news that the site would be up a week later. All we have is nerd raging, threads being created and people like yourself saying, 'oh but there's a logical implication' where there is none. The only logical implications are those people who create them in their own fantasy reality.

[C2B]

That's the reason devs should not give any info to the community. Some shmuck gives like 10$ and he's acting like an appointed ruler of the place.

Yeah, i gave a little more than $10 (And would have given a lot more if I wouldn't have been broke at the time) and have been supporting Obsidian (and not just the company, but the people in it) for a little while longer and stronger than the kickstarter.

 

This also entitles me to nothing and shouldn't play any role here. It may make me emotional though. Yes.

 

I'm a bit amused about the accusations of nerd rage, considering I have been backing down fast even before Adam posted including apologizing for using the word lying during my first posts (though I didn't even use it in the OP). Explaining my motivations better. And saying theres probably a good explanation when Adam read the thread.

 

Anyway, I got a great post by Adam Brennecke out of it, so I'm satisfied and hopefully in the future they are more clear on thses matters. Communication, yo.

[PrimeJunta]

 

The delay isn't the problem. None of us want them to release a buggy backer website. All C2B wanted from Obsidian was that if the site wasn't ready on November 27, then to say so in the update.

 

 

What if they thought it was going to be ready on Nov 27?

[Messier-31]

So much quarreling and what for? Signs of armageddon if you ask me - which is australian for "arma geddon outta here".

 

Yup, let stalk strine crickey

 

...

 

It will be ready, chill out!

[Sensuki]

They did, once again. Read what I said. That wasn't the point. Pay attention to the second part of the line, starting from the if.

 

So much quarreling and what for? Signs of armageddon if you ask me - which is australian for "arma geddon outta here".

 

Yup, let stalk strine crickey

 

...

 

It will be ready, chill out!

The quarreling isn't even about the update it's because people ITT just don't read through what other people say, they just quickly skim over it, make an assumption and then post things based on what they thought they said.

 

No wonder Josh Sawyer thinks that this is a real problem with people + making RPG characters.

 

I think many of you would be blown away by how often players will look directly at a description of an option, pause, seem to analyze it, and then select it without putting 2 and 2 together until much later.

 

When that happens and the error results in, let's say, ~15 minutes of lost time, as a designer I go, "Hey dummy, pay attention." When that happens and the error goes unnoticed for 5... 10... 20 hours, the problem is so far in the past that I would rather just sigh and slide an emergency exit button toward them.

 

As a non-system-related example, in Fallout: New Vegas, we pop up a message box before the end of the game. It says (paraphrased) HEY MAN THIS IS THE END OF THE GAME. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP PLAYING, YOU SHOULD NOT START THIS. BECAUSE IT IS THE END. AND THE GAME WILL BE OVER. Even so, a huge number of people missed it or claimed to have missed it, so we later had to hard-code in an extra auto-save game at that point.

 

I could take some sort of grumpy tough-guy attitude and say "Well, tough ****," but I don't think that's beneficial to me or the player.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

C2B: No worries, mate! I reckon you're one of the true Obsidian fans here. Even though "Seriously? What the Hell?" was a short fit of nerd rage, you did indeed back down quickly. And I find it adorable that you actually care that much. It's very sweet. Obsidian should be happy to have a fan like you. We all go overboard sometimes, and in this case the entire thread got into a nerd rage mode all by itself. You're the best!

[PrimeJunta]

Jeez, Sensuki. You have been using words like 'deceptive' here. Others have used 'lying.' These denote intent to deceive. 

 

I haven't seen anything indicative of more than a dev team tripping over their feet releasing a low-priority side project. They've announced some dates, and missed them. That is all. 

 

Point being: if you're accusing someone of malicious intent – "deception" –, I would expect you to provide evidence for that malicious intent, and I would expect that malicious intent is the most likely explanation for that evidence, rather than just confusion, human error, miscommunication (internal or external) or whatever. I would also like to hear some remotely plausible theory as to why they'd want to be "deceptive" about this sort of thing. I.e., under what possible circumstances is it to their advantage to intentionally lie about the release date of their backer portal?

 

Short version: put down the shovel and climb out.