Trolls (no not trolling :P) in PE

[Ulquiorra]

 

I am also curious why the Eternity troll lacks the signature troll nose...?

 

They realized it looks horribly stupid?

 

 

Mayby but still better then goblin after steroids with wooden horns

[Mazhlekov]

 

I am also curious why the Eternity troll lacks the signature troll nose...?

 

They realized it looks horribly stupid?

 

Man, big noses are so charming!  I want big noses, please! 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Mayby but still better then goblin after steroids with wooden horns

 

 

I think they are more reminiscent to finless, horned Deep Ones than anything else, but whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulquiorra]

 

 

Mayby but still better then goblin after steroids with wooden horns

 

 

I think they are more reminiscent to finless, horned Deep Ones than anything else, but whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ekhm... deep ones, mix beetween fish and human without fins ? ... = Deformed human ?

 

Deformed human + horns = PE trolls ...

 

Aaaa ... now i understand

 

Why you have to cheat me with a name "troll" i whoud understand "finless deep ones with horns" .. what is it april fool ?

[Tauron]

 

Yeah but that doesn't mean that adapting another troll concent that look like orct with woodlike horns (like in PE) is original. I like original adaptations but lets face some things, if i say dragon you suspect dragon or something simmillar to dragon not rabbit with butterfly wings, if i say Godzilla you suspect something that risebles godzilla not pikachu/ domestic cat crossover.

 

And if i say Troll you suspect something that risembls trolls, something big and ugly i supose and PE trolls are ugy (but not too big in my opinion by that doesnt matter).

A) If it was original, then it wouldn't look ANYTHING like any other troll you've ever seen before, and you'd still be displeased.

B) I dare you to come up with a creature that you can't say resembles some combination of other things.

C) You do realize that horns and tree roots/wood are REMARKABLY similar in form, right? Why do you think nature-based creatures tend to get that treatment?

 

Again, I understand your preferences but don't see any kind of subjective case, here, against P:E's troll design. I'm really not seeing how P:E trolls are to other trolls as a flying bunny is to a dragon. Because they're not bigger? Almost every single troll depiction I've ever seen has them as differing sizes.

 

Tell me... how big is a demon? What should a demon look like? What does a dryad look like, and what does it not look like? Same for an elemental? Should a fire elemental be made out of pure fire? Or should it be more substantial, like lava rock? Should it have a liquid body of molten rock/metal? Maybe it's made out of crystals? What shape should it be? How tall should it be? Should it walk, or float magically?

 

 

Yes there can certanly be variations. But Ulquiorra makes valid point and point being, if that picture from updates didnt say it depicts trolls, you would not have guessed it was a troll.

 

Sure we speak of mythological creature that has undergone some cosmetic changes enetering realm of high fantasy. Still there is certain element to mythology that binds all other design variations together. There has been some screenshots posted already in this thread. I have already seen few EXTREMLY flawed designs from some games and movies...at least in my opinion. Take fable and huntsman example...Fable troll could more easily be called earth elemental and in huntsmen abomination beast that is covered in mossy. Dont get me on Skyrim 3eyed ape abominations that are called trolls for some reason. There is this recent trend to make trolls simply "mindless" nature aspected (at least partially in appereance) beastly abominations.

 

What about some inspiration from original folklore? Even Tolkien, the grand daddy of high fantasy, didnt depict them completly unintelligent and at least preserved one of few original folklore stories; that protagonist saves his hide by negotiating his way through encounter (Hobbit) What is wrong if there is diff approach to trolls? Why cant they have their own communities, go to work?  (traditionally quarry/mining) ...ok so folklore say they shun sunlight, doesnt mean they are all inherently evil. Owl is mostly nocturnal creature and yet has been symbol/idol for knowledge/wisdom.

[Ulquiorra]

Yes there can certanly be variations. But Ulquiorra makes valid point and point being, if that picture from updates didnt say it depicts trolls, you would not have guessed it was a troll.

 

 

 

Sure we speak of mythological creature that has undergone some cosmetic changes enetering realm of high fantasy. Still there is certain element to mythology that binds all other design variations together. There has been some screenshots posted already in this thread. I have already seen few EXTREMLY flawed designs from some games and movies...at least in my opinion. Take fable and huntsman example...Fable troll could more easily be called earth elemental and in huntsmen abomination beast that is covered in mossy. Dont get me on Skyrim 3eyed ape abominations that are called trolls for some reason. There is this recent trend to make trolls simply "mindless" nature aspected (at least partially in appereance) beastly abominations.

 

What about some inspiration from original folklore? Even Tolkien, the grand daddy of high fantasy, didnt depict them completly unintelligent and at least preserved one of few original folklore stories; that protagonist saves his hide by negotiating his way through encounter (Hobbit) What is wrong if there is diff approach to trolls? Why cant they have their own communities, go to work?  (traditionally quarry/mining) ...ok so folklore say they shun sunlight, doesnt mean they are all inherently evil. Owl is mostly nocturnal creature and yet has been symbol/idol for knowledge/wisdom.

 

 

To me PE trolls look more like Saryrs

 

 

Allmost the same legs and horns (even propably size) but more "Monster" like insted of human.

 

If they whoud not named there are Trolls i whoud think that those where Satyrs, or bugbears.

 

I have no obiections about how trolls must "react" or how type of "inteligence" they must posses.

 

But useing a NAME that was literly taken from Folklore, meant that at at least slight level they must have some risemblence. Otherwise it's trolling (yes trolling not trolls) culture or author that he creates them.

 

This the same as im creating a novel with aumaua looking like this :

 

 

It whoud be trolling aumaua creator concept.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Silent Winter]

The definitive Troll /thread

[Tauron]

Yeah or more like demonised/corrupted/abomination/undead Saryrs or Faun. I would be guessing far more than Trolls. Dont get me wrong plz,  creature looks nicly designed, ugly and appalling in appereance as it is intended but just isnt that much of a Troll to me.

 

Ahh, would be nice if there was diff take on Trolls - would even like to see playable henchman Troll. That they have some sort of societies, small ones maybe and lvl of culture and dwllings compared to those in bronze age. Inhabiting mountain and wast forrest regions. Maybe they "devolved" from some ancient race or just their super regeneration and resistance to diseases made some stop to their  "evolution" or whatever you would call it. As appereances goes, why not go to some original concepts. I always depicted trolls could be mix of Ogre and Troll folklore. Or maybe they are one and same and people just give them diff names, depending on culture. Large to small appereances (why not, you can find dogs diff shapes and sizes, from chiwawa to great dane) .

 

The large ones Troll/Ogre could have tough greenish/grey skin resembeling slightly oakbark in appereance. Hair or "fur" that looks mossy or may be acually mossy that some 'clans' grow on them whn out hunting/raiding or as shamanistic ritual that shows as their link to nature, i dont know :D  Orrrr if we really need abominable snowman/troll beast, why not something like what they did with dark elves in Thor the dark world. Where they sacrifice/transform themself permanently to become some kind of abomination.  

 

I am just throwing some of my personal preferances here. I quickly found this pic of an Ogre http://monster.wikia.com/wiki/Ogre?file=Ogre.gif Bit diffrent skin tones, somewhat bigger nose, prominent eyebrows, roughskin resembeling oak bark, hair and beard that may appear almost mossy. Maybe fingers and body stature slightly more stumpy, even if they are large.

 

Just voicing my personal opinion with my limited english vocabulary, what I would like to see. Maybe after living in Norway for 20 years I got biased with Troll design/visual appereance in question. :D  I know it is ignorant of me to assume I know anything of PE trolls lore history, since I just assume they are some "mindless" abominations from first looks. From what I propose, maybe give them more depth than they have had in recent years. Either they be primeval creatures of the world or newcomers from some other realm. Although I always thought of Troll as primeval creatures. Their decline in the world, their inability to change. Either phisiological or cultural.

 

Anyway, I could rant on and on. That was me venting a bit But seriously, c'mon devs!!! )) C'mon awsome concepts artists, present us some new concept art of Trolls and maybe expand on lore. You said you wanted your backers to be part of creation process ) Now you have chance

[MattH]

They're good Project Eternity trolls. They're more humanoid because of the "souls" principle of the game and they probably have some special affinity instead of just being random critters from some picture book. Maybe not, but that look fits to the world. Those horns have a good sense of woodlands about them. Nothing "scary for the sake of it". Real troll, a bit different. I admit they're a bit dry and aristocratic for trolls, but I find that interesting. Maybe we will see them acting trollishly and we will have to use troll-tactics.

[Ulquiorra]

They're good Project Eternity trolls. They're more humanoid because of the "souls" principle of the game and they probably have some special affinity instead of just being random critters from some picture book. Maybe not, but that look fits to the world. Those horns have a good sense of woodlands about them. Nothing "scary for the sake of it". Real troll, a bit different. I admit they're a bit dry and aristocratic for trolls, but I find that interesting. Maybe we will see them acting trollishly and we will have to use troll-tactics.

 

Then why ogres in PE still look like ogres ? They don't have "Soul"

 

I whoud not even asy why dragons skieleton, look like dragons skieleton ..

[Calmar]

LotR cave troll says "Don't forget about me!"

 

[Mor]

You can google image a lot of great trolls, but most of them are hardly a good candidates for troll model for PE that would be seen from isometric perspective. The key is to make them distinctive, but I suspect that there are several limitations concerning their skeletal structure and movement.

[Tauron]

LotR cave troll says "Don't forget about me!"

 

I always thought LoTR cave trolls looked like pitbull version of a Troll.

[Ulquiorra]

Seriusly i think that the biggest issu of PE design is not "contept" becouse concept may be awsome ... but in isometric it looks.. lame .. hand look very shotr. Yellowish legs look almost like trausers .. we don't know if they have fur or "slime" skin ... we can't assume anything besides "they have horns".

 

And im not so critical becouse obidian is lame, im so critical becouse i KNOW obsidan can make waaaaay more better .. this is why im so ... displeast ..

[Lephys]

Just for what it's worth:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

 

"Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined as a particular type of being.[6] Numerous tales about trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely old, very strong, but slow and dim-witted, and are at times described as man-eaters and as turning to stone upon contact with sunlight.[7] However, trolls are also attested as looking much the same as human beings, without any particularly hideous appearance about them, but where they differ is in that they live far away from human habitation, and, unlike the rå and näck—who are attested as "solitary beings", trolls generally have "some form of social organization". Where they differ, Lindow adds, is that they are not Christian, and those that encounter them do not know them. Therefore trolls were in the end dangerous, regardless of how well they may get along with Christian society, and trolls display a habit of bergtagning ('kidnapping'; literally "mountain-taking") and overrunning a farm or estate.[8]

 

While noting that the etymology of the word "troll" remains uncertain, John Lindow defines trolls in later Swedish folklore as "nature beings" and as "all-purpose otherworldly being, equivalent, for example, to fairies in Anglo-Celtic traditions" and that they "therefore appear in various migratory legends where collective nature-beings are called for"."

 

Highlighted in orange are the sections pertaining to the P:E troll design being perfectly in-line with even old Scandinavian folklore regarding trolls: They look remarkably humanoid (instead of looking vastly different from people), and are very much "nature-beings."

 

Again I say, If you just don't like that concept for a troll, then awesome. More power to ya. No one's here to tell you what you should like. But, to say that they "don't look like trolls," or argue that there is some objective problem with their design in clashing with established troll mythology/lore is just plain silly.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Lephys

[BAdler]

I like the trolls in the latest update, but I am curious if there are more "branches" of trolls and thus I'll throw out some ideas.

 

There are different variations of trolls in the Project Eternity universe. To be completely honest, though, I am not sure how many variations we will get to by the end of development. Some may have to come in an expansion.

[Woldan]

Troll Hunter:

 

Isn't that a Fomorian?

[Tauron]

Just for what it's worth:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

 

"Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined as a particular type of being.[6] Numerous tales about trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely old, very strong, but slow and dim-witted, and are at times described as man-eaters and as turning to stone upon contact with sunlight.[7] However, trolls are also attested as looking much the same as human beings, without any particularly hideous appearance about them, but where they differ is in that they live far away from human habitation, and, unlike the rå and näck—who are attested as "solitary beings", trolls generally have "some form of social organization". Where they differ, Lindow adds, is that they are not Christian, and those that encounter them do not know them. Therefore trolls were in the end dangerous, regardless of how well they may get along with Christian society, and trolls display a habit of bergtagning ('kidnapping'; literally "mountain-taking") and overrunning a farm or estate.[8]

 

While noting that the etymology of the word "troll" remains uncertain, John Lindow defines trolls in later Swedish folklore as "nature beings" and as "all-purpose otherworldly being, equivalent, for example, to fairies in Anglo-Celtic traditions" and that they "therefore appear in various migratory legends where collective nature-beings are called for"."

 

Highlighted in orange are the sections pertaining to the P:E troll design being perfectly in-line with even old Scandinavian folklore regarding trolls: They look remarkably humanoid (instead of looking vastly different from people), and are very much "nature-beings."

 

Again I say, If you just don't like that concept for a troll, then awesome. More power to ya. No one's here to tell you what you should like. But, to say that they "don't look like trolls," or argue that there is some objective problem with their design in clashing with established troll mythology/lore is just plain silly.

 

Yes it might be bit silly, I am not beyond reason...but same ofcourse could be said about most fantasy creatures taken from folklore. They could have taken elfs and used that same photo, yes? Not all folklore describes them as pointy ears, stoic, thin vegan, food/meat depraved timeless arrogant top models with magical (Troll )) affinity.

 

As for ethymology of troll : http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Troll&searchmode=none

 

I am not norwegian and I am no linguist but I live in Norway, considered mostly birthplace of Troll. So my understanding of Troll by breaking some of norwegian words like "Trollmann" means sorceror or magician. Take away Troll and you are left with "mann" that literally means man or short slang for husband depending on sentance. Husband in norwegian means "ektemann", where word "ekte" means real or true. If you would take 'english' word "husband" litterally on norwegian, "hus" means house and "band" means ties or tied... (acually english is full of norwegian/scandinavian words, nm). Ok i am loosing track....back on track : "Trolldom" means magic or sorcery. "Trolldom" if you break it apart, where "dom" literally means 'court sentance' or 'judgment'. So one thing is certain, Troll and magic share common ground. I dont know why I went through all this becouse as it said in yellow text, although it is a pardox ofsorts. They are natural yet they are supernatural. They are from nature and yet they are "other wordly".

 

Too many words now that I think. I am arguing that it would be nice that trolls get to be more than your typical fantasy monster. Although it is described as monster sometimes, but so are dwarfs, elf/alv/Villenjak as well.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Tauron

[Ulquiorra]

Just for what it's worth:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

 

"Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined as a particular type of being.[6] Numerous tales about trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely old, very strong, but slow and dim-witted, and are at times described as man-eaters and as turning to stone upon contact with sunlight.[7] However, trolls are also attested as looking much the same as human beings, without any particularly hideous appearance about them, but where they differ is in that they live far away from human habitation, and, unlike the rå and näck—who are attested as "solitary beings", trolls generally have "some form of social organization". Where they differ, Lindow adds, is that they are not Christian, and those that encounter them do not know them. Therefore trolls were in the end dangerous, regardless of how well they may get along with Christian society, and trolls display a habit of bergtagning ('kidnapping'; literally "mountain-taking") and overrunning a farm or estate.[8]

 

While noting that the etymology of the word "troll" remains uncertain, John Lindow defines trolls in later Swedish folklore as "nature beings" and as "all-purpose otherworldly being, equivalent, for example, to fairies in Anglo-Celtic traditions" and that they "therefore appear in various migratory legends where collective nature-beings are called for"."

 

Highlighted in orange are the sections pertaining to the P:E troll design being perfectly in-line with even old Scandinavian folklore regarding trolls: They look remarkably humanoid (instead of looking vastly different from people), and are very much "nature-beings."

 

Again I say, If you just don't like that concept for a troll, then awesome. More power to ya. No one's here to tell you what you should like. But, to say that they "don't look like trolls," or argue that there is some objective problem with their design in clashing with established troll mythology/lore is just plain silly.

 

im a begginer writher. am i understand baing "original". But why we have non original dwarves, elfs orges but original trolls, orlans, auamamauauaua .. ?

 

For me is like wrhignting level of a tolkien fanboy that want's make something "non-corsited copy-and-paste-from-tolkien" but he still can't make a decision "em i original" or "em i copying from D7D and Torlien" .. so writhing and the level of 12 years old writher

[Osvir]

 

I like the trolls in the latest update, but I am curious if there are more "branches" of trolls and thus I'll throw out some ideas.

 

 

There are different variations of trolls in the Project Eternity universe. To be completely honest, though, I am not sure how many variations we will get to by the end of development. Some may have to come in an expansion.

That is great to hear if you have like 15 troll variations that you are considering putting in, may I suggest that you only pick out the 3 or 4 most sensical ones? (and perhaps use some 4 or 5 in books and mysterious lore, and in expansions. Finally having the last ones appear in expansions) Don't forget about the rest of the beastiary is all I'm saying I'd personally rather have a rich beastiary with variation rather than having a rich troll culture.

 

Personally, now that I'm thinking about it, I'd even be perfectly satisfied with the single troll shown in the 68th Update, if it'd allow Obsidian to insert more creatures and things into Eternity.

 

Off-topic:

Expansions! So you are planning (as in professional planning/"Project Planning") for post-release content? Perhaps this warrants its own thread but as I have you on the line here I am curious if Backers who pledged a certain amount will get expansions as if it was a subscription or if they will have to pay for expansions apart from their pledge to Kickstarter/PayPal?

[Lephys]

Yes it might be bit silly, I am not beyond reason...but same ofcourse could be said about most fantasy creatures taken from folklore. They could have taken elfs and used that same photo, yes? Not all folklore describes them as pointy ears, stoic, thin vegan, food/meat depraved timeless arrogant top models with magical (Troll )) affinity.

Exactly. The same COULD be said of something like Elves. So, if they showed me elves with bark-horns growing out of their head, and green skin, I wouldn't have any reason to say "Hey! Those don't look like Elves!"

 

Now, if they had 73-foot-tall creatures made out of lightning and tar, with 17 tentacles and 3 eyes, each glowing a different color, and they ate planets... and they called these "elves"... I'd say "those don't look like elves." Why? Because those are in no way similar to anything that has ever been called an elf. So, it's fine to have that creature, but strange to call it an elf, when you could've just called it whatever you want, since you've made up its design anyway. That would be like me drawing a portrait of a person who looks absolutely nothing like someone named Steve, and titling that drawing "A portrait of Steve."

 

However, the trolls they've shown don't look literally nothing like any concept of trolls, ever. So, everyone's "hey, those don't look like trolls" complaints are really just "those don't look how I want trolls to look." Which, again, is fine. But it's not the same thing as "trolls SHOULDN'T look like that." People are calling them out on the association of the depicted creatures with the name "trolls," suggesting an objective problem, but really the problem is just subjective preference. The design does fall inside the broad spectrum of troll lore attributes/designs, but people just prefer other, more frequently precedented depictions.

[LadyCrimson]

I just had to pipe in that the "Gothic troll" looks like Donkey Kong, or something.

 

I tend to think of trolls as being tallish, upright, not too "broad", and having longish arms with big fists that hold giant clubs and such, with some variation of greenish/earthy tones, but other than that very vague notion I don't really have much of "must have" concept of trolls. They could be short, hunched over and squat instead.

[BAdler]

Off-topic:

Expansions! So you are planning (as in professional planning/"Project Planning") for post-release content? Perhaps this warrants its own thread but as I have you on the line here I am curious if Backers who pledged a certain amount will get expansions as if it was a subscription or if they will have to pay for expansions apart from their pledge to Kickstarter/PayPal?

We haven't started the project planning on an expansion yet. Once we start getting into the specifics we will probably do an update about it. I don't think that will be for a while, though.

[Walsingham]

 

Now, if they had 73-foot-tall creatures made out of lightning and tar, with 17 tentacles and 3 eyes, each glowing a different color, and they ate planets...

 

**** trolls. I want these.

[sesobebo]

 

 

Now, if they had 73-foot-tall creatures made out of lightning and tar, with 17 tentacles and 3 eyes, each glowing a different color, and they ate planets...

 

**** trolls. I want these.

 

is this how they're made? in any case, **** 'em Yourself!

 

 

*ba dum tsss*

Edited December 6, 2013 by sesobebo