Humanoid Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Sure, I'm just saying it's not unfair to rate a game lower if it inconveniences its users in that way. Not a deal breaker but certainly a contributing factor in legitimately downrating a rerelease. 1 L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Just an opinion (so please take it as that), "streamlining" is not about reaching a specific target audience, it's about reaching as large an audience as possible. It's the good old quantity versus quality debate. Do you have a specific vision that you are itching to realize or do you have a burning hole in your wallet that needs fixing. And sometimes it's not even about that, sometimes you have, say, an overly complex skill/spell system riddled with "no-brainer" choices. Cutting off sub-optimal choices and leaving only the real deal left is streamlining, yet it has little to do with either of those. Or, it could be about quality vs. quantity. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Does it make the manual appear out of my DVD drive tray? EDIT: Yes, I'm being facetious, but usability is something that should be rated. Accessible isn't the same as conveniently accessible. And if it seems I'm being unfair because every company does it now, well, I'm marking down every single company. It's objectively a worse experience regardless of logistics. How do you distribute a print manual with a game that has been released only digitally? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 You could offer print manuals for delivery, but yeah, not the broader answer. That lies in finding a solution that at least matches the convenience of that print solution, and just saying "here's a PDF scan of the old manual" isn't going to cut it. That information needs to be presented out there in a way that's both as comprehensive and as conveniently accessible as a print manual, and tooltips are just the beginning of it. A BG2 player pondering their character build ought to have all the relevant information - stuff like the full XP table, level by level ability breakdowns, etc - available ingame in a way that would match a player looking at their character sheet onscreen while having the paper manual open in front of them. To repeat the point, it's not that games have stopped making properly useful manuals that irks me, as much as there being no reasonable attempt at a like-for-like replacement. Putting it in the too hard basket, dumping all the information in a PDF and saying "eh, that's the price of progress" isn't the solution. It's not even trying. Yes, it means more cost in developing a better, self-documented product, but then what are the savings from not doing physical distribution for? L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 You could offer print manuals for delivery, but yeah, not the broader answer. That lies in finding a solution that at least matches the convenience of that print solution, and just saying "here's a PDF scan of the old manual" isn't going to cut it. That information needs to be presented out there in a way that's both as comprehensive and as conveniently accessible as a print manual, and tooltips are just the beginning of it. A BG2 player pondering their character build ought to have all the relevant information - stuff like the full XP table, level by level ability breakdowns, etc - available ingame in a way that would match a player looking at their character sheet onscreen while having the paper manual open in front of them. To repeat the point, it's not that games have stopped making properly useful manuals that irks me, as much as there being no reasonable attempt at a like-for-like replacement. Putting it in the too hard basket, dumping all the information in a PDF and saying "eh, that's the price of progress" isn't the solution. It's not even trying. Yes, it means more cost in developing a better, self-documented product, but then what are the savings from not doing physical distribution for? I see what you are saying and I agree. Let me give an example. I just finished IWD and despite the fact I know the AD&D rules I found there were several times I had to reference the manual around what spells to select. What I ended up doing is keeping the manual open on my laptop and playing the game on my gaming rig. But it would have been more convenient to a hard copy of the manual. This is not a reason for me to say "not having a hard copy of the manual detracted from my gaming experience" but it would just made things easier. So I see your point "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messier-31 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 *reads comments below the review* This is hilarious. *takes popcorn* It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungri Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Or you could just alt tab. or use 2 monitors, or print the manual out. But wouldnt you rather save trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Or you could just alt tab. or use 2 monitors, or print the manual out. But wouldnt you rather save trees? I'll be honest sometimes my Alt-Tab crashes the game, so that's not always an option I could print the manual out, as I mentioned, but its only a few things I needed to reference so that would be a waste "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungri Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 *reads comments below the review* This is hilarious. *takes popcorn* You might like these: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 *reads comments below the review* This is hilarious. *takes popcorn* You might like these: Okay those are classic "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Luckily there are hardcoer gaemers in the comments. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Without an objective standard against which the game could be rated, reviews are always going to be pish. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGX-17 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) http://www.twinfinite.net/blog/2013/11/16/baldurs-gate-2-review/ - The author claims to be a hardcore gamer that has played games since the commodore. - Has never played a Baldurs Gate game before writing this review, and I imagine no other infinity engine game either. - Writes that BG2 is too hard, be couldn't figure out what to do, didn't read the manual, was lost from the start and that the game sucks because there's no in game tutorial or hand holding. - Never played the original, yet writes that the game wasn't enhanced enough. What hardcore games has he been playing since the commodore exactly? Where in the Hardcore videogamers' Rulebook does it postulate you have to play D&D computer games to qualify as a "hardcore" gamer, as opposed to "a D&D nerd who owns a PC"? I mean, since you have it on hand, and all. Someone who spends hundreds or thousands of hours playing old-school shooter games on the hardest difficulty to achieve the highest scores and least number of lives lost over the course of the game isn't hardcore if they didn't play Baldur's Gate when it was new? They might not be great at D&D, but they're in a whole other world compared to a person who devotes their game time to RPGs. As is the case with all reviews, they are opinions. If you don't agree, then that's the end of it. No game is objectively good or bad, games are just like morality and ethics; fundamentally abstract, arbitrary concepts constructed by human minds, nothing more than an elaboration on basic genetic imperatives (societies improve survivability, societies need rules to function, games consist of behavior within a framework of rules, etc.) The universe has no concept of "games." Quantum Mechanics will not provide mathematical proofs as to which edition of D&D is objectively superior to the others. Edited November 23, 2013 by AGX-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Would you extend that statement to movies, literature, and music? 2 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 It's interesting that no one ever claims to be a hardcore reader. People tend to identify themselves as experts in a certain genre. That really is a better tack to take when it comes to games. Music and movies are a bit more digestible, so it makes more sense to say you are hardcore about those media types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 It's interesting that no one ever claims to be a hardcore reader. I like to think of myself as a hardcore reader. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 It's interesting that no one ever claims to be a hardcore reader. I like to think of myself as a hardcore reader. I wasn't talking about Penthouse Letters KP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Seeing the "Doesn't even look up what THAC0 means" is not an indictment against the reviewer, IMO. But then I always disliked AD&D and enjoyed the BG games despite it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrano Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I really should look up THAC0 one of these days as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) To hit Armor Class 0, see in D&D the lower your armor class the harder it is too hit it. Its also why I always joked about how sex works in a D&D setting, otherwise known as how a Half Orc mated with a gnome. Edited November 23, 2013 by Orogun01 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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