If Im not crushed into goo by an ogre in my first 10 minutes of gameplay, I wont be happy.

[Walsingham]

 

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/401429781507362816 this should allay everyone's fears regarding this topic. 

 

This makes me happy. But it has to happen right from the start of the game. Maximum hardcore difficulty, and NO tutorials or hand holding or assistance in game.

 

 

Look here, old man. If you want to have a harder experience just take shrooms or something.

[neo6874]

you forgot "killed by some random mook in the first house you walk into because they TOLD you to go inside" (**** you, tutorial priests at candlekeep)

[Sensuki]

You were killed by Shank or Carbos? wow that's an Achievement of itself.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Sensuki

[Messier-31]

You were killed by Shank or Carbos? wow that's an Achievement of itself.

 

From what I heard Winthrop was close to crit-hit him too

 

j/k

[Karkarov]

I don't disagree with certain quests being too hard to initially complete but I don't see the reason for a pointless quest like in your example where you get no reward for doing it later. Also you should get some kind of warning if a particular monster is going to be too difficult. I don't see this as detracting from the overall experience?

It all comes down to how the warning is delivered.  An NPC you meet on the way through the forest warns you of dangerous wildlife being more active lately = ok.  Approaching a cave and noticing there is a pile of dead bodies, bones, and scorched earth around it = ok.  A book you read in town telling of a tower you one day visit and mentioning how the mightiest heroes of the day have died tried to explore it = ok.  Imoen running forward and yelling at you that this area is too dangerous for you = bad.  Automated pop up warning that is totally out of game telling you that you are entering a deadly area = bad.

[Rostere]

I liked that you could just wander around and suddenly encounter dangerous creatures in BG1. That gave the world a sense of imminent danger, you were always on your toes.

 

If you ever think "whatever, anything inside this house is scaled to my level, which means I can easily beat it to a pulp" there's not really a feeling of danger or exploration. It's just monotonously ticking off dungeons from your to-do list.

 

Then again, it could be abused like the case with the basilisks who are essentially just XP piñatas once you know how to deal with them.

[neo6874]

You were killed by Shank or Carbos? wow that's an Achievement of itself.

not that hard with a wizard ... 

 

AC6, THACO of 20 ... and 4 HP.

[Lephys]

not that hard with a wizard ... 

 

AC6, THACO of 20 ... and 4 HP.

Dealing less than 4 damage... now THAT'S an achievement. When you're a LvL 1 Wizard, foes should be commended for somehow NOT killing you when they hit.

 

 

 

Just have party memebr voice their concern that you better run and not fight the current enemy.

 

I like this way of a possible warning around difficult enemies

 

It'd be great if, upon your insistence that you try to go take on that Ogre at LvL 2, your companions just said "See you back at the stronghold!" and rushed off, abandoning your crazy arse.

[Pipyui]

And if the gates of Hades may bar my path

I shall not cower nor flee

For I have withstood of heaven's wrath

and the games of devils without a plea,

Though haunted by comrades by and by

Whose souls follow still in my wake

I will never falter in my step

Till my own Death deign to take,

Through harshest desert and coldest wind

I can not find truest rest

Til that day comes when I can relinquish the sword

Having finished my sacred quest

 

I hate poetry.

And don't give me lip about meter or rhyme; I'm a programmer, damnit!

[Sensuki]

AC6, THACO of 20 ... and 4 HP.

Haha thought you'd say that.

 

That is still difficult, because IIRC they only do 1 damage per hit.

[Mungri]

That's why you never play a pure wizard in BG, you dual from a fighter or thief because of more HP.

 

Plus if you were unkitted, only a single spell slot to complete the tutorial with.

 

In all of the BG1 to BG2 conversion mods, you could cheese the early game by playing a LE mage and summining an Imp. Transform it to a spider, put it in your backpack, and its forever a permanent hasted sword spider.

[Mungri]

 

 

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/401429781507362816 this should allay everyone's fears regarding this topic. 

 

This makes me happy. But it has to happen right from the start of the game. Maximum hardcore difficulty, and NO tutorials or hand holding or assistance in game.

 

 

Look here, old man. If you want to have a harder experience just take shrooms or something.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I'm not really a Mario fan.

 

Id like to say that posts 30 and 31 sum up what would be perfect for this, a brutal world with no level scaling. That first bear that you see isn't gimped and can chunk you to death with a single hit if you get too close.

 

Not like lolOblivilol where you just run through and complete the entire game at level 1 without levelling up once, because if you're level 1, then even the most fearsome demons from hell and Dagoth Ur himself are also level 1. What a POS. Oooh look, an elven ruin right at the start of the game. Sure, I can just wander right in and clear it all like easy peasy mode because this is lolOblivilol.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Mungri

[Wombat]

It all comes down to how the warning is delivered.  An NPC you meet on the way through the forest warns you of dangerous wildlife being more active lately = ok.  Approaching a cave and noticing there is a pile of dead bodies, bones, and scorched earth around it = ok.  A book you read in town telling of a tower you one day visit and mentioning how the mightiest heroes of the day have died tried to explore it = ok.  Imoen running forward and yelling at you that this area is too dangerous for you = bad.  Automated pop up warning that is totally out of game telling you that you are entering a deadly area = bad.

"It all comes down to how the warning is delivered."  Agreed with this one.  That said, I think it's natural that characters with suitable abilities (survival skills, magic abilities, and lore) enough warn the protagonist pointing out the facts they observed-such as footprints, unnatural magic traces, and disturbing stories.  That said, I think Obsidian devs have quite a few tricks up their sleeves.

 

I liked that you could just wander around and suddenly encounter dangerous creatures in BG1. That gave the world a sense of imminent danger, you were always on your toes. with them.

That was a factor which added tension to wondering "sparse" open areas of BG1.  I have to remind that there won't be XP for killing in PE, though.  Rather, once cleared, the fields indeed, felt too absent.  As for basilisk's example, yes, some encounters became too easy once the players learned how to deal with them.  In some cases, such factors become just like routine rituals in the case of finishing trolls with fire.

 

That said, I basically agree that there should be that distinctive sense of danger when exploring wilderness although having proper equipment/party members/abilities would ease it to some extent.  I hope the imagination of the devs haven't died out after these years as well as ours.

[Mungri]

Like the NPC on the farm in BG1 that tells you its Ankheg breeding season, and you're like 'Wuts an Ankheg? Easy, I go kill'.

 

Then the first time you wander off Ankheg hunting, your party dies.

 

Whereas in LolOblivilol, 'Oh noes, the most evil necromancer is being ressurected, you forth young conjurer and kill him'. I'm only level 1 because I can, and I kill him with zero effort. Superb danger and on edge risky gameplay. Excepts that the Sims is harder, because in that game eventually the Grim Reaper comes and kills you.

[Mor]

He actually sort of has a point. Not necessarily about being killed, but being allowed to rush through the dialogue/cancel cutscenes and get to the action on consecutive playthroughs. I know I don't read the BG dialogue on my 30th playthrough that's for sure.

I hope you are playing a heavily modified game, even then it seem a bit too much. If you already know the story back and forth and play only for the action, wouldn't be better to experience some other game? I know its blasphemy to some, but as far as action/tactics involved there other games which at the very least not worse and might have half decent story that you will like..

[Mungri]

what, no EXP for killing enemies in this game?

[neo6874]

what, no EXP for killing enemies in this game?

nope, it's all "overall XP" (or rather "quest XP").  Actually, it more reminds me of playing a PnP game.

 

Sure, a kobold might be 20 XP (pulling a number out of thin air), but at the end of the night the DM doesn't tell you "OK, you killed 10 kobolds, you get 200 XP", but rather something like 

 

• Fighter - you got 500
• Wizard - you got 650 (because bonus XP for something)
• Rogue - you got 700 (bonus XP, plus you did an OOG bonus XP thing)
• Cleric - you get 550 (OOG bonus XP thing)
• Multiclass ... you would have gotten 1,000 but Class A is still 3 levels ahead of Class B, so you get 750.

Edited November 21, 2013 by neo6874

[Mungri]

Well maybe that's a good thing because then there's no incentive for me to go around making bears extinct.

 

How are the spells going to be? I crave BG2 / IWDs second edition DnD spells so much, nothing since has had a magic system as superb, and I really don't think this game will either because every game is too focused on equalizing and balancing every class which I hate so much.

[Tamerlane]

I agree. Screw balance.

 

 

Fighter supremacy for life, mother****ers.

[Mungri]

No no no, MAGE supremacy.

 

In BG and IWD, Mages ruled supreme, at least after they went through all that painful levelling with crappy HP. Fighters on the other hand had an easier time at all levels, but in the end game didnt match the power of the spells in those games.

 

So that was kind of balanced. I would like it just like that, the idea of a class (preferably mage) that starts off super weak, but when they have levelled up they are most powerful.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Mungri

[IndiraLightfoot]

Like the NPC on the farm in BG1 that tells you its Ankheg breeding season, and you're like 'Wuts an Ankheg? Easy, I go kill'.

 

Then the first time you wander off Ankheg hunting, your party dies.

 

Whereas in LolOblivilol, 'Oh noes, the most evil necromancer is being ressurected, you forth young conjurer and kill him'. I'm only level 1 because I can, and I kill him with zero effort. Superb danger and on edge risky gameplay. Excepts that the Sims is harder, because in that game eventually the Grim Reaper comes and kills you.

 

This is exactly what happened to my first party in BG1. I recall this like it was yesterday! :D

Ah, the fond memories of being torn to pieces by serrated fangs the length of scythe-heads...

[Tamerlane]

No no no, MAGE supremacy.

 

In BG and IWD, Mages ruled supreme, at least after they went through all that painful levelling with crappy HP. Fighters on the other hand had an easier time at all levels, but in the end game didnt match the power of the spells in those games.

 

So that was kind of balanced. I would like it just like that, the idea of a class (preferably mage) that starts off super weak, but when they have levelled up they are most powerful.

**** mages. Give me ten different kinds of feinting maneuvers, each one useful against different attacks - some broad, some niche - and each with their own specific counters. Let wizards cast acid arrow all day every day.

 

Edited November 21, 2013 by Tamerlane

[coffeetable]

No no no, MAGE supremacy.

 

In BG and IWD, Mages ruled supreme, at least after they went through all that painful levelling with crappy HP. Fighters on the other hand had an easier time at all levels, but in the end game didnt match the power of the spells in those games.

 

So that was kind of balanced. I would like it just like that, the idea of a class (preferably mage) that starts off super weak, but when they have levelled up they are most powerful.

Nooope (thankfully, IMO)

 

After first level, wizards' class abilities are access to spells, period. Fighters (and other melee-oriented classes) have access to their own class abilities. Whether they are literally magical in nature or not, they will in many cases be more powerful than a comparable spell gained at the same level. The ultimate advantage of wizards is flexibility. They can potentially learn all spells available to wizards and at any given time are only limited by what's in their current grimoire. If a wizard gains access to a spell at X level that does 20-50 damage to all targets at close range in a 10' radius, a comparable paladin melee AoE damage attack gained at X level will do significantly more damage and likely with a higher Accuracy.

Edited November 21, 2013 by coffeetable

[Cubiq]

After first level, wizards' class abilities are access to spells, period. Fighters (and other melee-oriented classes) have access to their own class abilities. Whether they are literally magical in nature or not, they will in many cases be more powerful than a comparable spell gained at the same level. The ultimate advantage of wizards is flexibility. They can potentially learn all spells available to wizards and at any given time are only limited by what's in their current grimoire. If a wizard gains access to a spell at X level that does 20-50 damage to all targets at close range in a 10' radius, a comparable paladin melee AoE damage attack gained at X level will do significantly more damage and likely with a higher Accuracy.

Sounds to me that a lot of classes will have Aoe attacks, i hope it wont make every combat tactic: spam aoe abilities on every cooldown.

[coffeetable]

I don't ~think~ there're cooldowns in PE. Instead abilities are either unlimited use, per-encounter, or per-rest.

Edited November 21, 2013 by coffeetable