The littlest events

[Auxilius]

Come to think of it, if a party is realistic, they don't spend their full time brooding over their quest, fate or story as world saviors. They sometimes do the littlest things, like talking over useless matters, drinking, partying, etc.

It's something I don't see very much in western* video games: scenes where the characters are doing nothing for the sake of doing nothing, and this despite the potential for roleplaying.

 

Let's say the party is at a dairy farm. What couldn't they stay just to let the pressure go down a little? No snitch to meet, no mercenary to negociate with, no fight to start, no veiled threat to deal with, just a nice little time to relax after a difficult mission. Then, they all order their meat and start talking just because, permitting the player to learn a little more about their hobbies and quirks and tastes for alcohol; maybe referencing previous events for the sake of ego-stroking and consequences.

Another example: it's late at night, the PC is on guard duty around the campfire but another member of the party can't sleep because ~reasons~ and they bond over it.

Scenes like Khelgar and Neeshka trading (bad) insults in NWN2 were the greatest but they were so rare, it was disappointing. After all, it could have been so much more.

 

The Planescape syndrome is to give meaning to absolutely every conversation. But sometimes, players want to see people/NPC interact together just because it's amusing. I know I do. I could even consider them a reward.

 

*Games like the Persona understood that but they go far too much for the slapstick humor angle. Maybe something Seinfeldian would be better, just sayin'.

[IndiraLightfoot]

NWN2, the first two acts, had plenty of this. I think Obsidian excelled there, but of course we always want more of that kind of thing.

However, it's expensive vis-à-vis the game dev budget, so we have to keep our fingers crossed for at least a few such moments. They are a great way to breaking up the pace too.

 

And Seinfeldian would be absolutely brilliant, if done sparingly!

 

I'm pretty sure there will plenty of bickering, at least.

[Auxilius]

They sure bickered a lot but I don't remember many scenes like that to be honest. There was the part when they finally arrive to NV and Neeshka does that brilliant impersonation of Khelgar and Elanee and a little scene on the first big village (can't remember the name), maybe some banter between Sand and Qara, but otherwise, everything had a meaning related to a quest.

 

I hope we get completely useless skits, only here to tell more about the characters and maybe make us laugh a little . Because they are useless doesn't mean they are forgettable.

[IndiraLightfoot]

In the tavern in Neverwinter, you had Sand and Bishop staring something that would go on well into Act 2 and the trial efforts going on there. I guess, it depends on which characters you pick. Neeshka was a good Have Grobnar in your party, and quite a few funny remarks will be dropped at inconvenient times. Shandra, the relatively short time she's in, has nice "normal" conversations for a change. Zhjaeve has a lot to say, but it's always words of wisdom starting "Know that", and they are always delivered with an undertone of urgency.

 

Regardless, Iagree with you totally "useless doesn't mean they are forgettable" is a very nice line indeed. Thank you, sir!

[Nonek]

I concur, downtime and simple character building are an amazingly overlooked feature in todays market, and I do not believe they have to be funny even, just so long as they demonstrate that the characters are believable and human. Ultima 7 had quite a broad array of little scenes that were purely flavour, and I for one enjoyed them immensely. The Witcher games built a nice sense of ambience through little and not so little features as well, Shani and the Blue Stripe's parties spring to mind. I personally also traveleed with Cassidy in New Vegas for this very reason. 

 

I think these feature serve quite effectively to remind us that we are not the centre of the universe in game, even if we know that we in fact are, they make the ego stroking far less blatant and clumsy.

[Karranthain]

I concur, such inter-party interactions make for a far more interesting game. With time, I hope that we'll see our party members developing bonds, rivalries etc.

 

It's also important that these relationships aren't static - some companions could, for an instance, start off really liking each other but as time passes they begin to develop a mutual dislike etc.

 

 

[Auxilius]

Something akin to the first Baldur's Gate? It could be cool and it would increase the replayability. According to what you say and how you behave, people can naturally react, even toward others as well. Let's say the PC decided to not burn a forest to lure out a monster. The druid is happy, the warrior is not. He believes the druid influenced the PC. Nothing happens yet, but the more the PC is eco-friendly, the more the warrior is likely to dislike said druid, until a small event show how bad it became. It's then up to you to rekindle them or let them hate each other.

 

That's not really part of the littlest events though. I'm sure there are better examples around .

[Walsingham]

To quote a Canadian I know:

 

Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics. Veterans talk toilet paper.

[Yonjuro]

Come to think of it, if a party is realistic, they don't spend their full time brooding over their quest, fate or story as world saviors. They sometimes do the littlest things, like talking over useless matters, drinking, partying, etc.

It's something I don't see very much in western* video games: scenes where the characters are doing nothing for the sake of doing nothing, and this despite the potential for roleplaying.

 

 

 Another example that the BG series didn't do well was when you bumped into someone who used to be in your party. The only dialog option was to recruit the person back. There was no option to, say, buy the person a drink and talk about what you've done since then. That would have made the games better, if done well.

[Nonek]

You know what they call a Big Mac in the Vaillian Republics?

 

Le Big Mac?

 

Edit: Have to rewatch Pulp Fiction, forgetting the quarter lb thing, may be senility though.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Nonek

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Let's say the party is at a dairy farm. What couldn't they stay just to let the pressure go down a little? No snitch to meet, no mercenary to negociate with, no fight to start, no veiled threat to deal with, just a nice little time to relax after a difficult mission. Then, they all order their meat and start talking just because, permitting the player to learn a little more about their hobbies and quirks and tastes for alcohol; maybe referencing previous events for the sake of ego-stroking and consequences.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J782jBp_pW0 

 

Edit: Ninja'd by Nonek, it seems. Kinda.

Edited November 20, 2013 by aluminiumtrioxid

[teknoman2]

Come to think of it, if a party is realistic, they don't spend their full time brooding over their quest, fate or story as world saviors. They sometimes do the littlest things, like talking over useless matters, drinking, partying, etc.

It's something I don't see very much in western* video games: scenes where the characters are doing nothing for the sake of doing nothing, and this despite the potential for roleplaying.

 

Let's say the party is at a dairy farm. What couldn't they stay just to let the pressure go down a little? No snitch to meet, no mercenary to negociate with, no fight to start, no veiled threat to deal with, just a nice little time to relax after a difficult mission. Then, they all order their meat and start talking just because, permitting the player to learn a little more about their hobbies and quirks and tastes for alcohol; maybe referencing previous events for the sake of ego-stroking and consequences.

Another example: it's late at night, the PC is on guard duty around the campfire but another member of the party can't sleep because ~reasons~ and they bond over it.

Scenes like Khelgar and Neeshka trading (bad) insults in NWN2 were the greatest but they were so rare, it was disappointing. After all, it could have been so much more.

 

The Planescape syndrome is to give meaning to absolutely every conversation. But sometimes, players want to see people/NPC interact together just because it's amusing. I know I do. I could even consider them a reward.

 

*Games like the Persona understood that but they go far too much for the slapstick humor angle. Maybe something Seinfeldian would be better, just sayin'.

i think it's called resting

[Griebel]

Something akin to the first Baldur's Gate? It could be cool and it would increase the replayability. According to what you say and how you behave, people can naturally react, even toward others as well. Let's say the PC decided to not burn a forest to lure out a monster. The druid is happy, the warrior is not. He believes the druid influenced the PC. Nothing happens yet, but the more the PC is eco-friendly, the more the warrior is likely to dislike said druid, until a small event show how bad it became. It's then up to you to rekindle them or let them hate each other.

 

That's not really part of the littlest events though. I'm sure there are better examples around .

 

I can imagine this druid coming to a henge like in BG1 and 2 and going: "Ah, Stonehenge, where a man is a man and the children dance to the pipes of Pan" with some folkrock playing in the background.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Griebel

[Messier-31]

I can imagine this druid coming to a henge like in BG1 and 2 and going: "Ah, Stonehenge, where a man is a man and the children dance to the pipes of Pan" with some folkrock playing in the background.

 

Ah, Stonehenge, one of the greatest henges in the world. Before Stonehenge there was Woodhenge and Strawhenge, but a big bad wolf came and blew them down and three little piggies were relocated to the projects.

[coffeetable]

The Aliens RPG footage showed Obsidian had a new take on these kinds of things:

 

http://youtu.be/BdVedBa0-mk?t=5m15s

 

Having them not interrupt the flow of the game was a great idea IMO.

Edited November 21, 2013 by coffeetable

[Hassat Hunter]

I think the Hawk on KOTOR2 functioned for this.

Also of course, party intercepting during conversations would add to this.

 

BG2 had this plenty of times, that your teammates budged in, but it got in disarray with full VO-casts and the opinion that a player should see everything in one game, and can not miss out. But mostly, the VO requirements.

 

I have no reason not to believe, without VO as PE is, that our teammates can speak their minds again on whatever the matter, and thus they actually a character just through that. Add in some interactions with the PC and eachother (again, BG2 style) and it's all set... without a need to go to a central zone for all interactions (think KOTOR2, DA:O).

Also, yes, I would think it's a good idea if upon resting some banter could show up, like in Expedition: Conquisitor. That's something you need to do anyway, might aswell add content to it, rather than force a PC to do stuff out-of-the-way for it's interaction and teambuilding...

[Auxilius]

Dunno. The Hawk worked great as a hub, just like I expect the stronghold to be, but the characters never got past their reason to be in the game. There was no fluff. Visas would obsess over Nihilus, same with the Handmaiden and Atris, same with G0-T0 and the Republic, Kreia was out fulltime to manipulate the carp out of everyone, etc.

Expeditions: Conquistador is actually a good example. I remember several completely useless conversations where the PC actually remained hidden and just listened to what his followers were talking about. Every character has their own brand of uniqueness.

 

There was this bit with the mestizo girl and the racist philosopher. Absolutely nothing was achieved but it was funny to see them banter despite their differences. I should replay the game one day.

[Sabotin]

Talking about camp conversations, I'd like if they took some time to bookend them or something. To me the conversations often come off as something separate from the game and I can practically see the global variables in my head.

[Iucounu]

That gotta be my dream game. A game without any direction, cause and intent, or underlying meaning, flamboyant characters, exceptional situations, and a greater whole that somehow fits together, a story told by a storyteller. Just real life.

And then, through some 0850 plot still brooding somewhere in the background, the apocalypse comes. Wayne?

[Lephys]

 

...without VO as PE is...

 

Wait... it's completely devoid of VO? I thought it was just going to be limited.

[nikolokolus]

Assuming that Obsidian gets so far ahead of schedule that they end up with an extra month of development time it would fantastic to see them sprinkle in some "useless" flavor dialogue options. Idle banter between shopkeepers and customers, party members and in dialogue trees.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

While I enjoyed NPC interactions in these games, I can't say I'm in agreement with your post. NPCs enhance the narrative and give life to what is otherwise a chess piece. I don't play these games to socialize with scripted virtual constructs. If that were my motivation, I'd be play The Sims. If an NPC's dialogue can enhance the narrative of the game--excellent. I don't care whether its addressing the PC, another NPC, an event, or otherwise. That's well and good, because it enhances the game, it doesn't change it. I don't want to go fishing with Khelgar, or spin limericks with Neeshka. That's something you do on a RP server for NWN, or at a table top game where the interaction is real and could possibly matter.

 

I feel as though I am digressing, but I can make my message very succinct. I'm play this game for the adventure itself, not "Tea-time with Minsc". I want NPCs to support that, not divert it.

[Pipyui]

Aww, I like tea time with Minsc.  It helps fill that void where real friends are sorely lacking.

 

Nah but really, I do like the idle banter of NPCs.  Even if it doesn't advance the story, I like to imagine the world my PC inhabits is a little organic instead of filled with cardboard setpieces.  Honestly, for me, I appreciate the atmosphere of a setting as much as the game's story itself.  If the devs have the time and resources to fill and round it out, all the better to me.

[Messier-31]

 

...without VO as PE is...

 

Wait... it's completely devoid of VO? I thought it was just going to be limited.

 

By this VO you mean Voice-Over? If so, I also heard that it will be limited to important dialogues/characters.

[coffeetable]

that they end up with an extra month of development time

you dont work in software do you