What you did today

[Calax]

 

Or maybe 250 million less population?

 

That and your system, administration, mindset etc is just not geared to a European model.. No matter how much we wanna pimp it

 

I'm imagining the stereotypical pimp outfit, worn by a white guy, driving a 1960's ambulance, while screaming french obsenities at a fat, bikini clad american woman.

[Hurlshort]

*sigh*

 

Obamacare only transfers the cost from those that cant pay to those that are being forced to pay for them. It does not change where you go for medical attention.

 

@JFSOCC: Being that you live in a country that offers free university, could you then get in on that once you complete your HS equivalency exam?

 

We've been paying for those who can't pay for years, well before Obamacare was ever a thought.

[Gfted1]

 

Or maybe 250 million less population?

 

That and your system, administration, mindset etc is just not geared to a European model.. No matter how much we wanna pimp it

 

 

True. Im always a bit surprised when people assume that because it works in little countries, it will work in big countries. It takes you guys the highest tax rates in the world just to be able to provide for ~6 million people, and that's only half the population of Illinois alone. As a wise man once said: "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

[Rosbjerg]

Well that being said our minimum wage is also around 20$.. I had a salesman job where I got 4500$ after taxes.. So that needs to be taken into account as well. It will be absolutely impossible to implement with a min. wage around 5$. Even with ~50-60% tax.

 

The system needs highly efficient unions, high government trust and high communal trust to work.. Something America with it's emphasis on personal freedom will never be able to do. But I for one have come to think it's good that we have such a diversity in the western world, we can all think the grass is greener on our pasture

[Gorgon]

 

Or maybe 250 million less population?

 

That and your system, administration, mindset etc is just not geared to a European model.. No matter how much we wanna pimp it

 

It's more about priorities. Manly things like tanks and aircraft carriers will get funded before bums who can't afford to take care of themselves. The money is there. 

[Gfted1]

It's more about priorities. Manly things like tanks and aircraft carriers will get funded before bums who can't afford to take care of themselves. The money is there.

At least do me the solid of having your facts straight instead of trying to score internet points by bashing the US. The most recent aircraft carrier, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77), "only" costs 6.2 billion to manufacture. Or about .62% the cost of the TRILLION dollar UHC. We could scrap the entire fleet and still not pay for this.

[LadyCrimson]

I think I heard California was trying to get a $12 minimum wage going recently. Did that go through? Not that $12/hour gets you very far in metropolitan Calif.

[Gorgon]

 

It's more about priorities. Manly things like tanks and aircraft carriers will get funded before bums who can't afford to take care of themselves. The money is there.

At least do me the solid of having your facts straight instead of trying to score internet points by bashing the US. The most recent aircraft carrier, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) "only" costs 6.2 billion to manufacture. Or about .62% the cost of the TRILLION dollar UHC. We could scrap the entire fleet and still not pay for this.

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_defense_spending_30.html

 

So. a trillion is a million million dollars, A billion, which is what the indexed numers are I believe, is 1000 million. There are  6,360.5 of those in the defence budget. What am I missing ?

[Gfted1]

What are you talking about? The total military defense budget was 660 billion.

[Gorgon]

What what.

 

You could pay for UHC six times with the defence budget. That's what. I reiterate my point about priorities.

[Gfted1]

I see, you've moved the goalposts from aircraft carriers to the entire defense budget of the country. Seems legit.

[Hurlshort]

The Iraq war is estimated to cost $1.2 trillion.

 

Honestly the cost of the UHC is not the issue.  Everybody has some different spin on what it will cost, what it will save, and they are typically just trying to gain political points.  The real issue is:

 

Can the government manage these policies without making a mess of it?

 

The answer is no.

 

But insurance companies have been doing a piss poor job for decades, so it's not like the bar is set very high.  

 

 

edit:  Simply put, the government can't even get along well enough to avoid work stoppages, so I have little faith.  

Edited September 25, 2013 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

Thank God for Blessed Europeans.

[Gorgon]

It won't let me post just the numbers. Realistically you would have to raise taxes though. Is that trillion dollar cost genuine  or is that part of the debate as well. 

[Hurlshort]

The trillion dollar cost is the estimate over a 10 year period.  

 

It's tricky though, because there is also a lot of stuff in the UHC that could lower medical costs.  Hospitals actually factor in the losses they take on uninsured patients when deciding what to charge.  That should go away with UHC.

[Enoch]

Not to tell folks with fancy mod-badges how to comport themselves on the forum, but I think everybody would enjoy themselves a little more if we kept the political wrangling to the (numerous) threads dedicated particularly to such political wrangling. 

 

 

The weather around here lately has been getting pleasantly cool.  I really need to stop putting off un-installing the window air conditioner in our bedroom.  Makes it a bit drafty at night. 

[Rosbjerg]

Edit: cough.. Right your are Enoch heh

 

Went out today, no body had the same idea.. Soo, now I don't know how I'm going to spend the evening / night. hmmm Warband maybe.

[JFSOCC]

I see, you've moved the goalposts from aircraft carriers to the entire defense budget of the country. Seems legit.

maybe it's worth noting that the US spends more on its military than the next 11 nations combined, 9 of which are allies.

And no, I do not think that's needed. I think having a large army makes it easier to select a military 'solution' where a diplomatic solution would have been more effective, and more cost effective. (in lives, money, and political fallout)

 

anyway, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread into politics.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Heading out to class. More than likely going to focus more on a girl than the lecture.

[kgambit]

What what.

 

You could pay for UHC six times with the defence budget. That's what. I reiterate my point about priorities.

 

Let's at least get the math right here.   

 

The cost of  UHC is estimated at 1 trillion dollars (minimum) which is 1000 billion.  The US defense budget is 660 billion dollars.   The cost of the George Bush Carrier is ~6.2 billion dollars.  You may now resume your argument about priorities with the right numbers at hand.     

 

 

 

JSFSOCC - it's also useful to look at that spending based on % of GDP and to note that China routinely underreports its military spending by 50%.. 

 

@Hurlshot - Sadly you're right.  Government is just fubared beyond belief.

 

Sorry for the sidetrack .....

Edited September 25, 2013 by kgambit

[Malcador]

Watched Arsenal do it the hard way. Again. Sad that United won, but oh well.

[Gfted1]

I could, and it is my ultimate goal.

 

I got to correct this though, university is not free. You get a low interest loan, if you complete your studies within given time, you don't have to pay it back. (entirely) If you fail to pass in the time given, you have to pay back every penny.

This loan is only available if you can prove that you need it, which admittedly includes most students.

 

Currently our government is trying to get rid of this system, but then, I voted for the opposition.

That's sounds like a pretty good motivation then and you can never go wrong getting an education.

 

Why is Denmark trying to cut the program?

[Gorgon]

A trillion a year for ten years, or a trillion for ten years of healthcare. The difference is rather extreme. 

[Ravenskya]

What did I do today? I went to work where I wrestled a pit bull, was attacked by a feral cat, was cussed out by someone who thought their bill was too high, drank too much coffee, and ate a chocolate chip cookie. Then I came home and starred packing for my move.

 

I am currently trying to convince my two puppies that MY bed is not for them to wrestle on

[Tale]

Worked, played some GTA V, felt ashamed at how unproductive I've been in my hobbies, so went back to my Shadowrun Returns project.

 

Decided I needed something inspiring on the TV, failed to find anything in the movie collection and settled on Farscape. Which I already watch about twice a year.