Dragon Age: Inquisition

[alanschu]

 

I'm pretty sure straight writers are only allowed to write gay characters now, lest they just be shoving their agenda down our throats.

 

What's more is the sickening dishonesty of those heterosexual writers.

 

Really? That would be sad, the assumption around this would mean a gay writer can't be objective and offer a balanced view of  basic human emotional interaction

Is this an official policy caused by negative feedback from past experiences or just something you suspect?

 

 

The point sailed well over your head Padawan.

 

It was a parody of the notion that a gay writer writing gay characters is reflective of it being some sort of agenda, and that there'd be more credibility if it was a heterosexual writer writing the gay characters.

 

Y'know... Drowsy's post.

[Guest Slinky]

The Gaider pic is a fake? Damn, got straight through my bs detector. Now I have to think before opening my mouth every time some dev says something stupid. don't I? I hope the the guy who made the pic gets testicular cancer for forcing me to do that.

 

And Gaider is gay? Well. that sure explains the gay crusade.

[Drowsy Emperor]

It sailed well over yours too. Gaider himself probably does have an agenda judging by how he intervened in my discussion on gay romances in BW forums - but that wasn't the point. The credibility talk is rubbish, I never said anything of the sort.

 

The point was already made in the first post, role playing is a childhood fantasy thing for me and they're putting more **** in it than necessary. 

 

Btw the chances that, out of several travelling companions, lets say 5 - that one is bisexual or gay are so remote as to be non-existent. At this point non-straight characters are heavily over-represented in Bioware games (DA2 isn't even worth discussing in this regard.)

Same goes for the actual fans of the game, by necessity, gays are such a minor percentage of the fan base that the whole persistence on gay romance is a purely political construct of Bioware made for collecting brownie points with the press and gay community. 

 

In fact, knowing how viscerally male teenagers despise their conception of "gays",  I can easily speculate that they alienate more people with this policy than they actually gain.

 

So, if that's not a crusade, I don't know what is.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I'm pretty sure straight writers are only allowed to write gay characters now, lest they just be shoving their agenda down our throats.

 

What's more is the sickening dishonesty of those heterosexual writers.

 

Really? That would be sad, the assumption around this would mean a gay writer can't be objective and offer a balanced view of  basic human emotional interaction

Is this an official policy caused by negative feedback from past experiences or just something you suspect?

 

 

The point sailed well over your head Padawan.

 

It was a parody of the notion that a gay writer writing gay characters is reflective of it being some sort of agenda, and that there'd be more credibility if it was a heterosexual writer writing the gay characters.

 

Y'know... Drowsy's post.

 

 

I did miss that one

[alanschu]

The Gaider pic is a fake? Damn, got straight through my bs detector. Now I have to think before opening my mouth every time some dev says something stupid. don't I? I hope the the guy who made the pic gets testicular cancer for forcing me to do that.

 

And Gaider is gay? Well. that sure explains the gay crusade.

 

This, however, seems much more like Poe's Law!

[kgambit]

 

 Second, "The lack of a thread title might because the "alleged" Gaider post appeared too far down in the thread." is incorrect.  There's no post above his, and in fact you can see the subscribe button that appears at the top of the thread, and where you see the two white documents is precisely where the thread title should be, and given that there are no page numbers in the upper right implies that this thread must have been started by Gaider (which I can assure you he wouldn't do).

 

 

I stand corrected.  That's probably an indication of how little time I spend on BSN these days.  

 

As you said, the alleged BSN post appears to be fake. 

[Guest Slinky]

 

The Gaider pic is a fake? Damn, got straight through my bs detector. Now I have to think before opening my mouth every time some dev says something stupid. don't I? I hope the the guy who made the pic gets testicular cancer for forcing me to do that.

 

And Gaider is gay? Well. that sure explains the gay crusade.

 

This, however, seems much more like Poe's Law!

 

Poe's law? I don't think it's that hard to believe someone gay, and it REALLY would explain a lot of things.

[BruceVC]

 

 

The Gaider pic is a fake? Damn, got straight through my bs detector. Now I have to think before opening my mouth every time some dev says something stupid. don't I? I hope the the guy who made the pic gets testicular cancer for forcing me to do that.

 

And Gaider is gay? Well. that sure explains the gay crusade.

 

This, however, seems much more like Poe's Law!

 

Poe's law? I don't think it's that hard to believe someone gay, and it REALLY would explain a lot of things.

 

 

I'm interested in what you think it would explain. You can't be suggesting that due to the fact Gaider is gay Bioware games have optional gay relationships?

So I'm missing the connection with him being gay and what it explains?

Edited August 16, 2013 by BruceVC

[Guest Slinky]

Have you ever met gay people? Some of them do their very best to stuff their gayness down your throat. I have ZERO problem with gay people, but I don't really appreciate when gay (or anyone else for that matter) start to drown me on their way of life.

 

And the crusade bio is on would easily be explained if someone there in high position would be, let's say, enthusiastic for the cause.

[Nepenthe]

Have you ever met gay people? 

 

Most of the gay people you meet won't introduce themselves as such, so... Frankly, the most ramming down the throat I have to endure is from Bioware haters, with straight white people standing up in affected moral outrage for the rights of every concievable minority a close second and gays themselves... well, not on the list at all.

[Malcador]

Why do you even care about Bioware haters though ? You work for them ?

[Guest Slinky]

 

Have you ever met gay people?

 

Most of the gay people you meet won't introduce themselves as such

 

Of course they don't, because majority of them are alright. Just like everyone else.

 

Majority does not include everyone.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Slinky

[Maria Caliban]

Some of these comments are getting a touch personal.

 

Feel free to criticize EA, BioWare, or Dragon Age. Feel free to criticize David's writing.

 

I'd like to avoid discussions of how you dislike David though. Or how his sexual orientation means he's being 'dishonest' on some level.

[Amentep]

 

That said, if it fits the story and there's a good reason for it I have no problem with any character returning.

My problem is two points:

1) Nothing can be done with an old character that can not be done with a new.

2) It risks the player agency they say they are going to respect.

 

Case in point; Leliana. Tatiana, the trained assassin and right hand of the Divine, could have done everything in Dragon Age 2 that she did. And nobody would have had cause to complain of her head growing back.

 

 

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done though.   I see Dragon Age as similar to a lot of fantasy novels that came after Tolkien where a lot of the same characters weaved in and out of the various novels. 

 

I'd much rather the Dragon Age series not be tightly tied together like Mass Effect, so I don't really care if my choices "matter" outside the course of the game I played anymore than I was "bothered" that Lucasarts made it canon that Revan was a dude or the Exile was a dudette.  And even though I killed Anders (not because he was gay but because he was a murdering ****) in DA2 if he were to show up in DAI, I wouldn't be all "OMG, WTF?"

 

Of course as it turns out the "post" was faked, its all a bit moot.

[Nepenthe]

Why do you even care about Bioware haters though ? You work for them ?

 

Edited: I don't like them because they come into threads about Bioware games to crap there and ram their agenda down my throat, as I said.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Nepenthe

[Malcador]

Poor Bioware, being persecuted by people with an agenda, heh. Even if they do do that, they get a rise out of you, so why bother about people slamming some company or its workers.

[Cultist]

Why do you even care about Bioware haters though ? You work for them ?

Fanbois gonna fanboi

[BruceVC]

Have you ever met gay people? Some of them do their very best to stuff their gayness down your throat. I have ZERO problem with gay people, but I don't really appreciate when gay (or anyone else for that matter) start to drown me on their way of life.

 

And the crusade bio is on would easily be explained if someone there in high position would be, let's say, enthusiastic for the cause.

 

Your point makes no sense. And yes I have several gay friends, some of them are conservative around there sexual orientation and some of them are flamboyant. I have no issue with either mannerism as I believe people should be who they are. Its the same when I go out with my gay friends that I don't pretend to be gay. Why should a gay person not be who he is?

 

But once again I am confused by what you are saying. Do you really think that optional gay Romance in Bioware games is "stuffing it down your throat" or "drowning me in there way of life". I assume you have played Bioware games so you know that any Romance is not mandatory. You must know this yet you still feel they are somehow forcing you to be part of something that you don't have to be part of. And you have an issue with it just because Bioware is choosing to be inclusive of there fan base 

 

And you still say " you have no issue with gay people". Really, because from where I'm sitting that's not what it looks like?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Have you ever met gay people?

 

 

Most of the gay people you meet won't introduce themselves as such, so... Frankly, the most ramming down the throat I have to endure is from Bioware haters, with straight white people standing up in affected moral outrage for the rights of every concievable minority a close second and gays themselves... well, not on the list at all.

I would say most men fantasize about ramming something down someone's throat.

[Amentep]

 

 

Have you ever met gay people?

 

Most of the gay people you meet won't introduce themselves as such, so... Frankly, the most ramming down the throat I have to endure is from Bioware haters, with straight white people standing up in affected moral outrage for the rights of every concievable minority a close second and gays themselves... well, not on the list at all.

I would say most men fantasize about ramming something down someone's throat.

 

 

Every little boy dreams of growing up to be a otorhinolaryngologist.

[Malcador]

Specialists get paid pretty well, here anyway.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

Why is it that Gaider has to turn everything into a crusade for gay rights?

 

Wouldn't it  be nice to live in a world where we didn't notice that development companies offered options for straight and gay players?

 

It would just be as normal as choosing to play male or female. That's the level of progression I want all companies and people to get to, a level where we don't comment at all about this topic as its so common.

That sounds nice amd all, but demonizing people who don't like a character as homophobes is in bad taste. Especially a character widely considered to be a whiny idiot.

 

It wasn't meant to sound nice, it is reality I like would like to live in when your sexual orientation doesn't make a difference for the optional character relationships offered to you in a game. I also never mentioned I have any problem with someone disliking any character, I have an issue with someone disliking a character just because they are gay. Its not hard to understand?

You missed the point. There isn't a problem with having gay PCs. There is a problem when you start blaming criticism on homophobia, as the (fake) Gaider post did. There wasn't any reason to bring up that "a small minority hated bisexual Anders" in that post.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Why is it that Gaider has to turn everything into a crusade for gay rights?

Wouldn't it  be nice to live in a world where we didn't notice that development companies offered options for straight and gay players?

 

It would just be as normal as choosing to play male or female. That's the level of progression I want all companies and people to get to, a level where we don't comment at all about this topic as its so common.

That sounds nice amd all, but demonizing people who don't like a character as homophobes is in bad taste. Especially a character widely considered to be a whiny idiot.

 

It wasn't meant to sound nice, it is reality I like would like to live in when your sexual orientation doesn't make a difference for the optional character relationships offered to you in a game. I also never mentioned I have any problem with someone disliking any character, I have an issue with someone disliking a character just because they are gay. Its not hard to understand?

You missed the point. There isn't a problem with having gay PCs. There is a problem when you start blaming criticism on homophobia, as the (fake) Gaider post did. There wasn't any reason to bring up that "a small minority hated bisexual Anders" in that post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it that Gaider has to turn everything into a crusade for gay rights?

Wouldn't it  be nice to live in a world where we didn't notice that development companies offered options for straight and gay players?

 

It would just be as normal as choosing to play male or female. That's the level of progression I want all companies and people to get to, a level where we don't comment at all about this topic as its so common.

That sounds nice amd all, but demonizing people who don't like a character as homophobes is in bad taste. Especially a character widely considered to be a whiny idiot.

 

It wasn't meant to sound nice, it is reality I like would like to live in when your sexual orientation doesn't make a difference for the optional character relationships offered to you in a game. I also never mentioned I have any problem with someone disliking any character, I have an issue with someone disliking a character just because they are gay. Its not hard to understand?

You missed the point. There isn't a problem with having gay PCs. There is a problem when you start blaming criticism on homophobia, as the (fake) Gaider post did. There wasn't any reason to bring up that "a small minority hated bisexual Anders" in that post.

 

 

Okay, I did misunderstand

[Tale]

Doubly so if your message intends to be "I would like to see new characters rather than older ones."  (Since I didn't pick up on that one at all)

That is, no sarcasm, a definitive argument against my saying that it made it clear. So I do need to change it. I won't pick over what I meant and how you interpreted it was wrong. If it's distracting to see, then that still drags the message down.

 

It's a bit broader than just wanting to see new people in new places. I'd like the epilogues to be taken seriously. I don't want my choices and actions to be undone, nor do I wish to see the choices I didn't take, but others did, undone. I don't want to see characters betray previous characterizations. And I want to explore wild and imaginative places with characters that present new ideas.

 

Bring back old characters is a risk on all of those. Cassandra is an interesting exception. She seems designed to cross games. She has no epilogue, no actions or choices involving her, and she was barely seen or characterized. Isabella and Merril for DA2 are similar, but seem to have achieved those things incidentally, not by intent.

 

Anders, however, expresses most concerns I have. His epilogue is ignored, the character is vastly changed, though with an excuse. To say I disliked DA2 Anders, however, would be a lie. I just think I would have liked him more if there wasn't the DA1 Anders hanging over his head. And maybe not just a little bit, I really have no understanding why he or any of these other people are all in Kirkwall at the same time.

 

This isn't a game killing problem for me. This isn't my "why DA2 sucked" button. But they are still a bunch of little things that I think can help improve the franchise. At least it's not Legion's recharacterization.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Have you ever met gay people? Some of them do their very best to stuff their gayness down your throat. I have ZERO problem with gay people, but I don't really appreciate when gay (or anyone else for that matter) start to drown me on their way of life.

 

And the crusade bio is on would easily be explained if someone there in high position would be, let's say, enthusiastic for the cause.

 

I've suspected that for a while. They're so persistent at it over what's a now quite long period of time that it looks very much like the higher ups are actively involved. Certainly no other developer in the industry is so aggressive about it.