Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part IV).

[obyknven]

Schumate's "Sarmatian" reconstruction actually seems spot on, are we even looking at the same relief? I mean...I've been looking at it a lot, considering I wrote my MA thesis on Dacian reconstructions.

Also, "the same" artist is not the same, that's Graham Sumner. And his "fantasy" Romans are all well documented in his book.

 

Trying way too hard there, buddy.

 

Edit: Also, "some reconstructions out there are clearly poorly done, therefore any attempt at realism is futile." is a really really retarded non-argument.

Oh, you are Osprey worshipper. I have nice present for you from their last book.

 

 

 

 

I do want such helmets in game.

[Merlkir]

I like Osprey, that's all. They employed my favourite illustrator - Angus McBride, a lot. Don't see how that makes me a worshipper. IIRC Shumate hasn't yet worked for Osprey and Sumner published his book with another company, so it's not even like you're bashing on Osprey really.

[Karranthain]

Winter is coming:

 

 

 

That's something that'd fit PoE's rangers well, I reckon.

[Monte Carlo]

Let's try and help some of the more po-faced members of the community dig where I'm coming from ---

 

 

This is called REALITY. Capt. Sullivan is an attractive, clearly intelligent and liberated modern woman. I am humbled by her service.

 

 

This is FANTASY. This is a fictional character who is not real. She does, however, add some colour and fun to the real-world, y'know, the one where humans find other humans attractive.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Monte Carlo]

But this is what I call boob-plate!

 

[ManifestedISO]

Good-for-nothing pedants say she's a Captain. 

[Monte Carlo]

Good-for-nothing pedants say she's a Captain. 

 

Fixed.

[Merlkir]

Rrrrrr, hey there, honey! 

 

[FlintlockJazz]

Sullivan's cuter.  The other one looks like a cosplayer wannabe warrior who wants to impress sugar daddy by dressing up like a **** in the hopes it will get attention that she desperately craves and is designed to titillate men, which is really my main issue with chainmail bikini and boobplate: that it presumes that all I care is **** and spaffing one out, demeaning men in general.  The muscle tone is better than some I've seen though (she actually has muscles).

 

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.  We return you to your regularly scheduled scrying.

Edited February 7, 2014 by FlintlockJazz

[Jarmo]

Rrrrrr, hey there, honey! 

 

How were morningstars actually carried around?

Certainly not on belt or on the back like swords.

Always on the shoulder? Which would be totally awesome for everybody in a crowd.

 

Or did they have them wrapped in some protective covering or something?

 

I'd imagine it'd be neat to have a version where the spikes are carried separately and screwed on before a set battle.

 

Maybe with an option for knobs when.. uh, you don't feel quite so vicious.

Or when expecting a fight any day now but don't want spikeholes in yourself in the meantime.

[Merlkir]

I suspect it was one of the weapons you didn't carry on your person, more like the greatswords you'd have on a wagon, or strapped to a horse. You'd unpack it before the battle and in the meantime you could carry it on your shoulder, sure.

 

Separate spikes would be a pain, because a screw is a difficult thing to make, iirc metal screws only started seeing use during the middle renaissance. You'd have to cut screw holes for all the spikes and then all the spikes would have to have screw bottoms made. Hitting with such a weapon would inevitably lead to loosening of the screws, the threading might rip and you couldn't screw the spike back in...

Probably much more trouble than it's worth.

[Agremont]

Let's try and help some of the more po-faced members of the community dig where I'm coming from ---

 

 

 

This is called REALITY. Capt. Sullivan is an attractive, clearly intelligent and liberated modern woman. I am humbled by her service.

 

 

 

This is FANTASY. This is a fictional character who is not real. She does, however, add some colour and fun to the real-world, y'know, the one where humans find other humans attractive.

 

Your fantasy is different from mine.

[Karranthain]

Found some very interesting designs while browsing the internet, I must say that I really like the east meets west aesthetic of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth - I'd love to see something similar in PoE. Very unique look.

 

 

[PrimeJunta]

I'll just say one more thing about this whole chainmail bikini thing.

 

I'm not the least bit bothered by chainmail bikinis as such. In fact, if done well, an erotic cRPG could actually be pretty damn good, especially if done in top-down isometric format like PoE, since it would necessarily avoid the embarrassingly awful pixel-humping you get in first- or third-person OTS perspective. It'd have to suggest more and reveal less.

 

The tropes that do irritate me are simply these --

 

One, asymmetry, aka the "men get platemail, women get bikinis" trope. In general, men are portrayed as people you want to be, while women are portrayed as things you want to possess. This is reflected in the way they're dressed.

 

Two, titillation overload. If everybody's showing an enormous amount of flesh all the time, it becomes the default and loses all power. Ever been to a nude beach? I spend my summers in southern France and many of the best beaches are nude or clothing-optional. After the initial unfamiliarity/discomfort wears off, you get used to it, and being nude is just what you are at the beach. (It's also way more convenient than faffing about with bathing suits.)

 

I would like nudity or revealing clothing to be there for some reason other than just to titillate specifically men, and I would like that reason to make sense in the context of the game world. My gigantic magic golden codpiece suggestion in the other thread was obviously tongue in cheek, but I was also making a point.

 

At the very  least, the physics of the world should work the same way for men and women: if we have both men and women as warriors, and it makes sense for men to wear sensibly-designed, protective metal armor in combat, then it should also make sense for women. Conversely, if, say, we have a high-magic world with a tropical climate where magic items are powerful enough to render metal armor obsolete, sensibly-designed metal armor would make no sense for anyone, and warriors of all sexes should be dressed accordingly.

 

And, of course, if we have a world where men and women have different roles – say, only women can be priestesses or witches, and only men can be knights or diplomats – the clothing should reflect that. (Throw in a couple of fertility goddesses and magic powers driven by sex, and half-naked badass women would make total sense.)

[quest1on]

Found some very interesting designs while browsing the internet, I must say that I really like the east meets west aesthetic of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth - I'd love to see something similar in PoE. Very unique look.

 

 

As a descendant of those mohawk-sporting guys, I never actually see the west part in them. It's actually a little bit infuriating for me that after 5 centuries of being part of European universitas we became turban-less Turks and that finally brought our downfall (not to be misunderstood, the oriental style looks great on originally oriental people.)

[Monte Carlo]

The second painting is clearly about PMT.

[Nonek]

One thing's for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a duel with those Polish gentlemen, apparently their saberwork was infamous throughout Europe and beyond.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yegd3YpjmWY

Edited February 8, 2014 by Nonek

[HoonDing]

One thing's for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a duel with those Polish gentlemen, apparently their saberwork was infamous throughout Europe and beyond.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yegd3YpjmWY

[ArtB]

They were pretty badass, and I'd love to see PoE take some inspiration. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth aesthetic isn't entirely period appropriate (as I believe the game takes place in a world which mostly corresponds to our late 15th/early 16th century and that stuff is more mid-late 16th and 17th centuries) but it wouldn't hurt, because fantasy, so who cares, and as it is pretty damn awesome.

 

BTW. Those videos by Sieniawski & Sons really wanna make me pick up fencing. Great stuff.

Edited February 8, 2014 by ArtB

[Karranthain]

As a descendant of those mohawk-sporting guys, I never actually see the west part in them. It's actually a little bit infuriating for me that after 5 centuries of being part of European universitas we became turban-less Turks and that finally brought our downfall (not to be misunderstood, the oriental style looks great on originally oriental people.)

 

Without delving into the other aspects, I'd say that it's the mix of the western armour with eastern attire - which looks rather unique!

 

One thing's for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a duel with those Polish gentlemen, apparently their saberwork was infamous throughout Europe and beyond.

 

I'm not an expert, mind you, but from what I've read it would seem that a rapier is a far more lethal dueling weapon; using a saber against one is actually putting yourself at a severe disadvantage.

 

Oh and I'll definitely be looking to add some more examples of the Commonwealth designs!

[Greensleeve]

 

As a descendant of those mohawk-sporting guys, I never actually see the west part in them. It's actually a little bit infuriating for me that after 5 centuries of being part of European universitas we became turban-less Turks and that finally brought our downfall (not to be misunderstood, the oriental style looks great on originally oriental people.)

 

Without delving into the other aspects, I'd say that it's the mix of the western armour with eastern attire - which looks rather unique!

 

One thing's for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a duel with those Polish gentlemen, apparently their saberwork was infamous throughout Europe and beyond.

 

I'm not an expert, mind you, but from what I've read it would seem that a rapier is a far more lethal dueling weapon; using a saber against one is actually putting yourself at a severe disadvantage.

 

Oh and I'll definitely be looking to add some more examples of the Commonwealth designs!

 

 

You're right. The rapier will either kill you, or at least very severely wound you (like pierce your lung or something), or it will do very little. Since the wounds caused by rapiers are so small, there's little damage from each stab, unless the stab is precisely placed in a critical location. A great example of this is the battle of Waterloo, where the English light cavalry used sabres that caused tremendous damage with each swing, but did not necessarily kill very effectively. The French, on the other hand, used thrusting swords for their heavy cavalry, that didn't cause great damage, but could kill with a single well-placed attack. The French soldiers complained about the barbarity of the English sword, actually. 

[quest1on]

 

As a descendant of those mohawk-sporting guys, I never actually see the west part in them. It's actually a little bit infuriating for me that after 5 centuries of being part of European universitas we became turban-less Turks and that finally brought our downfall (not to be misunderstood, the oriental style looks great on originally oriental people.)

 

Without delving into the other aspects, I'd say that it's the mix of the western armour with eastern attire - which looks rather unique!

 

One thing's for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a duel with those Polish gentlemen, apparently their saberwork was infamous throughout Europe and beyond.

 

I'm not an expert, mind you, but from what I've read it would seem that a rapier is a far more lethal dueling weapon; using a saber against one is actually putting yourself at a severe disadvantage.

 

Oh and I'll definitely be looking to add some more examples of the Commonwealth designs!

 

The only western-style (plate) armour is worn by hussars, the rest, like Cossacs (light cavalry) or hajduks (infantry) wore no armour or like pancerni (medium cavalry) wore mail with karwasze (oriental style arm bracers) and misiurkas (helmet/aventail hybrid, also oriental) while using, for example, composite bows. Something like this

[Woldan]

Handgonnes! 

 

[PrimeJunta]

Matchlocks, actually. Cool, though, and would fit PoE nicely IMO.

[Woldan]

Look at their hand positions, the powder pan covers are closed, the thumbs are right next to them so they can open the covers quickly, no hands on the triggers and all guns pointing in a safe direction. It seems the artist knows a thing or two about firearms.