A video game survey

[Malcador]

Thought prices were usually higher in Eastern Europe than the West (hence piracy issues) ?

[BruceVC]

 

I'm not upset at all and its clear you don't read my posts as I have no issue with the question around dollars as I mentioned  ( you naughty boy Malc  )

 

I am giving constructive criticism why I feel the survey is flawed and why without asking where people live you aren't going to get the correct picture. For example the salary question isn't appropriate without understanding where people live

Still not seeing it as something, it is just a survey of some people posting in a game developer's forum. Do find it funny how you judge your own stance though, as always.

 

 

Thanks Malc, I'm glad I made you laugh. You know they say " time spent laughing is time spent with the gods"

 

So consider this my gift to you for today. If you carry on being polite and friendly I'll make you laugh more

[Gfted1]

Because it's not just the income level that are different but also game prices.

100 euros will on average buy you much more games in Ukraine than in UK.

Hence the income question loses validity when taken outside the context of US market.

 

 

It's actually not that simple.  If you adjust for currency exchange rates, the costs still won't line up.

The question is "What is your average yearly income?", not "How much do you spend on games?" One has nothing to do with the other. "Yearly income" is usually used to establish the economic demographic of those taking the survey, not to establish how many games they will buy.

[Amentep]

Yeah, it is a funny business to be in.  The new Superman movie was blasted by most of the well-known critics, but raked in huge amounts of cash and is shaping up to be one of the larger comic/film blockbusters we've ever seen.  So how much is the critic's disagreement actually worth, in the long run?  The dynamic between critic and consumer has been a contentious discussion for many years in film, music and literature.  Now we are really starting to see it in video games, especially in those games where the budgets get so big and the fanfare for release is so loud.  ME3 is great example of a critically lauded game that was eviscerated upon release by the users who loved it as a game but hated the ending.  This throws into sharp relief the ongoing problem that critics and consumers have always had with each other: they seem to value different things.

There's an interesting problem that I think Video Games have over most other forms of entertainment in that their length may prevent the ability for a reviewer to be 100% accurate. Film and music time investment can be rather low, time-wise. Literature and video games are definitely up there in time commitment, but (traditional) publishing tends to work so far in advance that the ability to get reviews completed for publication is probably a lot easier to manage.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that a certain amount of reviews for any given game were done with the reviewer not completing the game at all.

[decado]

 at least ask people where they live as then you have context to the responses. This is something I would think you would want to do to get an understanding of how the responses may vary from around the world. So I am not asking you to do a comprehensive analysis of all possible gamers, just make some minor changes.

 

Good luck with the rest of the thesis

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is not possible right now.

 

When any student or academic wishes to study a social phenomenon using human subjects, they have to submit their research proposal to an Instrument Review Board that carefully examines the instrument in question, whether it is a survey, an experiment model, or a set of questions for an interview.  The questions and methodology get a comprehensive review in order to make sure that the instrument is not violating any ethical or legal rules, and also that the instrument will not cause psychological harm to any subjects that may take it.

 

One of the biggest areas of concern is focused on the differences between anonymity and confidentiality.  The survey you took was approved by the IRB at my university, and that approval is contingent upon the instrument staying the way it is.  I am allowed some leeway when it comes to correcting spelling errors or maybe switching around a word or two, but adding another field to collect location data is a large enough change that I would have to resubmit my materials to the IRB.  This would delay my research by a large margin, and invalidate all of the survey data I have collected so far.  

 

But the biggest issue is that these would be changes to no good effect, as location is pretty much irrelevant to what I want to know.  A gamer from Germany having an opinion on professional reviews and a guy from America also having an opinion are equally valuable to the project at large.  My research is American-centric but that's because I'm American, surrounded by other Americans, studying journalists who write in English -- this last point being quite important, since most of the barriers that come up in using the internet to conduct research are language barriers.  The only point where this may pose a problem is with income, and even then I'm not so sure it is a problem.  I work in an international business climate and I can say that most people who aren't from America know how much they make "in American dollars" simply because it is still the most widely used currency in the world, and is often the currency of choice for international business deals (though of course, not always).   I do not anticipate people having that much of a problem with throwing their income out in terms of American money.  Worst case scenario, the respondent can ignore the question altogether. 

 

So it's not the most precise instrument ever designed, but that is okay.  I have a certain amount of room in which to work, as do most experiments conducted by graduate students who have no money to spend on their research.  The real meat of the research is about how people feel about professional game critics, users, and the differences between the two of them.   To answer that, I don't need to know where people are from.

Edited June 24, 2013 by decado

[alanschu]

Thought prices were usually higher in Eastern Europe than the West (hence piracy issues) ?

 

The prices may not be higher, but the incomes are also not as high.  So while 100 Euros may get you more in Eastern Europe, it's more difficult to make 100 Euros as well.

[alanschu]

 

The question is "What is your average yearly income?", not "How much do you spend on games?" One has nothing to do with the other. "Yearly income" is usually used to establish the economic demographic of those taking the survey, not to establish how many games they will buy.

 

 

Because yearly income means different things depending on where you are.

 

Make $50k a year in Canada and you make a comfortable amount.  Make $50k a year in Sudan, and you're absurdly rich.

[Malcador]

Well at least a quick check to a possibly dodgy site comparing Steam prices does show that prices in Russia are lower than the UK (converted). But are slightly higher, narrow enough to be considered the same I suppose, in East EU.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

 

 at least ask people where they live as then you have context to the responses. This is something I would think you would want to do to get an understanding of how the responses may vary from around the world. So I am not asking you to do a comprehensive analysis of all possible gamers, just make some minor changes.

 

Good luck with the rest of the thesis

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is not possible right now.

 

When any student or academic wishes to study a social phenomenon using human subjects, they have to submit their research proposal to an Instrument Review Board that carefully examines the instrument in question, whether it is a survey, an experiment model, or a set of questions for an interview.  The questions and methodology get a comprehensive review in order to make sure that the instrument is not violating any ethical or legal rules, and also that the instrument will not cause psychological harm to any subjects that may take it.

 

One of the biggest areas of concern is focused on the differences between anonymity and confidentiality.  The survey you took was approved by the IRB at my university, and that approval is contingent upon the instrument staying the way it is.  I am allowed some leeway when it comes to correcting spelling errors or maybe switching around a word or two, but adding another field to collect location data is a large enough change that I would have to resubmit my materials to the IRB.  This would delay my research by a large margin, and invalidate all of the survey data I have collected so far.  

 

But the biggest issue is that these would be changes to no good effect, as location is pretty much irrelevant to what I want to know.  A gamer from Germany having an opinion on professional reviews and a guy from America also having an opinion are equally valuable to the project at large.  My research is American-centric but that's because I'm American, surrounded by other Americans, studying journalists who write in English -- this last point being quite important, since most of the barriers that come up in using the internet to conduct research are language barriers.  The only point where this may pose a problem is with income, and even then I'm no so sure it is a problem.  I work in an international business climate and I can say that most people who aren't from America know how much they make "in American dollars" simply because it is still the most widely used currency in the world, and is often the currency of choice for international business deals (though of course, not always).   I do not anticipate people having that much of a problem with throwing their income out in terms of American money.  Worst case scenario, the respondent can ignore the question altogether. 

 

So it's not the most precise instrument ever designed, but that is okay.  I have a certain amount of room in which to work, as do most experiments conducted by graduate students who have no money to spend on their research.  The real meat of the research is about how people feel about professional game critics, users, and the differences between the two of them.   To answer that, I don't need to know where people are from.

 

 

Okay thanks for explaining. I don't agree with everything you are saying but that's okay, we can agree to disagree

[Bester]

What? Incomes like 75k don't exist in most of Europe, it's too high. But in the US it's like middle class or worse. And yet the games in US are cheaper than in Europe. But still, people with a 20k salary in Europe can buy any amount of games they like. A lot of factors, see?

 

Decado, I've read your arguments carefully and this is how it is: you're just lazy.

[decado]

I blame my rich parents.

[alanschu]

Eh, that poster has an MO and is pretty adversarial in general.  I'd encourage not feeding him further

[decado]

As soon as he started trying to guess my socio-economic background over the internet through message board posts, I figured it out.

Edited June 24, 2013 by decado

[Bester]

You figured me out then huh? But isn't figuring people out over the internet exactly the kind of thing that you disprove? Either you must really hate yourself or you must realize the hypocrisy is strong in you.

[decado]

You're right, I've seen the error of my ways.

[entrerix]

took the survey

[decado]

Thanks!

[Amentep]

Incomes like 75k don't exist in most of Europe, it's too high. But in the US it's like middle class or worse.

According to the 2010 census, 75.25% of the US had personal income less than 50K; 48.01% of that total was persons with income less than 25K. 88.10% earned less than 75K.

[entrerix]

the US is way bigger than most european countries

 

there are regions in the US where 75k a year is low income (ie just enough money to afford rent in a cheap apartment)

 

there are regions in the US where 75k a year is filthy rich (ie enough money to buy a HUGE house with tons of land all around it)

Edited June 24, 2013 by entrerix

[Zoraptor]

 

 

 

smh. What does a persons location have to do with any of those questions?

The income levels will vary wildly depending on location and so will purchasing power in gaming.

 

 

 

So what? Instead of pointless whining, why don't people use Google to convert Rand or Rubles into Dollars and answer the question?

 

Because it's not just the income level that are different but also game prices.

100 euros will on average buy you much more games in Ukraine than in UK.

Hence the income question loses validity when taken outside the context of US market.

 

It doesn't really matter, so long as you know what your data means and take its limitations into account. Looking at the games market as a whole and without geographic distinction is a perfectly valid approach, so long as you don't start trying to draw location specific conclusions from it. To a point it would have been a good idea to have the location data anyway since it adds flexibility- but only to a point, it isn't essential.

[Bester]

This Zoraptor gentleman... Who is he?? I usually don't read any posts, I just scroll through threads looking for links, click on them and see if there's anything interesting. Well sometimes my eyes wander off a bit and I catch a few phrases here and there. But this one ... he writes reasonable and intelligent things. So unlike this place.

 

I'll be reading you.

[Gorth]

Thought prices were usually higher in Eastern Europe than the West (hence piracy issues) ?

Add 100% artificial price hike (cartel/price fixing) when selling games to the Aussie market (talking about pure digital download from the same online stores).

 

Location can matter.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

smh. What does a persons location have to do with any of those questions?

The income levels will vary wildly depending on location and so will purchasing power in gaming.

 

 

 

So what? Instead of pointless whining, why don't people use Google to convert Rand or Rubles into Dollars and answer the question?

 

Because it's not just the income level that are different but also game prices.

100 euros will on average buy you much more games in Ukraine than in UK.

Hence the income question loses validity when taken outside the context of US market.

 

It doesn't really matter, so long as you know what your data means and take its limitations into account. Looking at the games market as a whole and without geographic distinction is a perfectly valid approach, so long as you don't start trying to draw location specific conclusions from it. To a point it would have been a good idea to have the location data anyway since it adds flexibility- but only to a point, it isn't essential.

 

 

I have to honest I am really confused by what accurate results you can get from this survey without mentioning the country so maybe you  can explain Zora because I know you are clever  . Lets say 100 people answer the survey and 60 % of these people all live in Eastern Europe, they say that they only buy 2 games every month and don't trust gaming journalists.

 

Decado has already mentioned that this survey was done for Americans only and he assumed initially only Americans would respond. At the end of the survey he looks at the 100 results and says " interesting so 60 % of the people in America who responded only buy 2 games and don't trust gaming journalists" Let me use this information as reference in my thesis or just as a general point

 

Except those people don't live in America so this information isn't accurate?

[ManifestedISO]

I have read your arguments carefully, and find you to be diligent. 

 

Maybe I took a different survey, but country of origin wouldn't matter. There are no accurate or inaccurate results from a subjective questionnaire about decision-making. Particularly when we don't know what relevance, if any, the data will have upon the greater thesis. You never know, double-blind, this could be a purely free-form experiment in psychology that has nothing whatever to do with video games and reviews.   I kinda hope there is a psychiatric professor behind this--then maybe what's-his-name might get help and stop practically shouting his transference neurosis, cripes.

 

 

[Zoraptor]

Lets say 100 people answer the survey and 60 % of these people all live in Eastern Europe, they say that they only buy 2 games every month and don't trust gaming journalists.

 

Decado has already mentioned that this survey was done for Americans only and he assumed initially only Americans would respond. At the end of the survey he looks at the 100 results and says " interesting so 60 % of the people in America who responded only buy 2 games and don't trust gaming journalists" Let me use this information as reference in my thesis or just as a general point

If you're doing an international survey then you simply cannot draw specific national conclusions without the nation of origin data. From a classic survey point of view (eg a political opinion poll) there should also be an independently selected rather than self selected or picked samples, complex weightings for a variety of important factors like sex and age etc, but for many things that is both impractical and unnecessary.

 

I presume from the questions that the questions being looked at are if there is a relationship between for example how many games are bought (how much money is spent) and trust in pro-reviews vs amateur reviews, or whether console gamers are more likely to trust reviews, that sort of thing. For that, there probably should not be too much variation based on location- it is an English language questionnaire, after all, so anyone taking it ought to be able to read the same reviews and (by and large) buy the same games from the same general places. You can always improve surveys, but as with everything you can lose focus and start wandering away from the core issues/ waste lots of time if you start tinkering.