Fear of women body in modern videogames

[obyknven]

And yet another straw man. Did I say it was offensive? No, I did not. The point was that the reduction of breast size improved Elizabeth as a character by reducing the overt sexualization of the character.

Explain please, why sexualization ( or big breast size ) of the character so bad? Really i don't understand. What's The Problem Here?

[BruceVC]

 

And yet another straw man. Did I say it was offensive? No, I did not. The point was that the reduction of breast size improved Elizabeth as a character by reducing the overt sexualization of the character.

Explain please, why sexualization ( or big breast size ) of the character so bad? Really i don't understand. What's The Problem Here?

 

 

In order to understand why people object to it I need to ask you a question.

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly? Honestly would you really be fine with if this is how men are portrayed?

Edited June 12, 2013 by BruceVC

[HoonDing]

Male sexual organ does not apply, as boobs are secondary sexual characteristics.

[obyknven]

 

 

And yet another straw man. Did I say it was offensive? No, I did not. The point was that the reduction of breast size improved Elizabeth as a character by reducing the overt sexualization of the character.

Explain please, why sexualization ( or big breast size ) of the character so bad? Really i don't understand. What's The Problem Here?

 

 

In order to understand why people object to it I need to ask you a question.

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly? Honestly would you really be fine with if this is how men are portrayed?

 

But girls really wear such clothes, sexy fantasy girls looks realistic.

[Zoraptor]

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly?

Dunno. I do have a massive bulge indicating my assets, after all, so it's difficult to imagine otherwise.

 

:smug:

 

Seriously though, I don't think guys think that way, in general. Most male game avatars are pretty buff alpha male types, after all.

 

It's not really a subject to generalise in too much though precisely because it is generalisation and characterising half the population a particular way based on sex is not going to be particularly accurate. No doubt there are men who get upset about their depiction (and not in the Men's Rights! sense) and women who really don't care even slightly about ending up playing a guy half the time or having a lot of women be half dressed.

[HoonDing]

Is that Marouane Fellaini grabbing the boobies?

[BruceVC]

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly?

Dunno. I do have a massive bulge indicating my assets, after all, so it's difficult to imagine otherwise.

 

:smug:

 

Seriously though, I don't think guys think that way, in general. Most male game avatars are pretty buff alpha male types, after all.

 

It's not really a subject to generalise in too much though precisely because it is generalisation and characterising half the population a particular way based on sex is not going to be particularly accurate. No doubt there are men who get upset about their depiction (and not in the Men's Rights! sense) and women who really don't care even slightly about ending up playing a guy half the time or having a lot of women be half dressed.

 

 

If every male party member was depicted with a loincloth and massive bulge I would be offended as I would feel it doesn't accurately represent what men are really like. I would see this as unrealistic and juvenile view of men. I am a man and this is what I feel so I'm sure other men would share my sentiment. I know you recognize this is a subjective debate but I was answering what Oby asked. He asked " what is wrong with massive breasts". The reason I gave is exactly one of the main reasons  why many men and women object to the Dragon Crown type female character.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

And yet another straw man. Did I say it was offensive? No, I did not. The point was that the reduction of breast size improved Elizabeth as a character by reducing the overt sexualization of the character.

Explain please, why sexualization ( or big breast size ) of the character so bad? Really i don't understand. What's The Problem Here?

 

 

In order to understand why people object to it I need to ask you a question.

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly? Honestly would you really be fine with if this is how men are portrayed?

 

But girls really wear such clothes, sexy fantasy girls looks realistic.

 

 

I agree that this lady looks really attractive but I also understand why people would object to this in a game.

[Nordicus]

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*?

Go on

[mkreku]

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*?

 

Hey! When did this thread become an attack on my personal choice of attire??

[Walsingham]

 

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*?

 

Hey! When did this thread become an attack on my personal choice of attire??

 

 

*Laughs.*

 

*Likes*

 

*Looks aghast*

 

*Hurriedly unlikes*

[Orogun01]

 

And yet another straw man. Did I say it was offensive? No, I did not. The point was that the reduction of breast size improved Elizabeth as a character by reducing the overt sexualization of the character.

Explain please, why sexualization ( or big breast size ) of the character so bad? Really i don't understand. What's The Problem Here?

 

The problem is that sexualization can detract from the character; I won't say that its absolute rule but generally if its just sex for the sake of being, then it does. Just imagine what the audience may have thought if fair Ophelia had a huge rack, swaying from side to side and her manner of attire was similar to that of Dragon Crown. The audience reaction to the whole play would had been different, those that are not imagining a series of ways to have coitus with Ophelia are asking themselves why that little whiny, queermo Hamlet doesn't put the moves on her. It would have completely destroyed the characters.

 

I still believe that there is a place for sexuality in video games (hell, the damn thing is everywhere!) Since as a medium we do not have castings or real actors whose features are not the result of the creative choices of an art team; the reality is that the medium should step back from sexualization a little bit and just let the actual game shine. Unless of course the shine is there to hide how crappy, unoriginal and uninspired your game actually is.

 

Also; on a related note: Why the hell every black woman in video games needs to  have silky smooth hair? 

[BruceVC]

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*?

Go on

 

 

 

 

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*?

 

Hey! When did this thread become an attack on my personal choice of attire??

 

 

You guys make me laugh

[Humanoid]

I haven't made a serious post in this thread yet, and this is borderline, but the only real negative I can say about the aesthetics of Cadegund's outfit is that ridiculous headwear*. The armour, I feel, is somewhat analogous to a modern women's business suit, not overtly sexual, but neither is it unfeminine.

 

 

* Then again she is a priest, a group of people not known for their sensible hats, no matter what creed.

[Nepenthe]

 

How would you feel if every male character in your party only had a loin cloth to cover there pe***s and there was this massive bulging shape which would indicate a huge pe***s*? Wouldn't you think this was unrealistic and doesn't represent men properly?

Dunno. I do have a massive bulge indicating my assets, after all, so it's difficult to imagine otherwise.

 

:smug:

 

Seriously though, I don't think guys think that way, in general. Most male game avatars are pretty buff alpha male types, after all.

 

It's not really a subject to generalise in too much though precisely because it is generalisation and characterising half the population a particular way based on sex is not going to be particularly accurate. No doubt there are men who get upset about their depiction (and not in the Men's Rights! sense) and women who really don't care even slightly about ending up playing a guy half the time or having a lot of women be half dressed.

 

 

I think you're right on the money. I now regret I didn't spend years bitching about how inadequate I feel when I am forced to play a chiseled male super model space marine who wears either skintight uniforms or a kinky cowboy outfit on his space ship. Haven't seen too many fat slobs in the games, certainly not after I switched to a non-reflective screen (aka the 13 monkeys effect).

[TrashMan]

 

 

If every male party member was depicted with a loincloth and massive bulge I would be offended as I would feel it doesn't accurately represent what men are really like. I would see this as unrealistic and juvenile view of men. I am a man and this is what I feel so I'm sure other men would share my sentiment. I know you recognize this is a subjective debate but I was answering what Oby asked. He asked " what is wrong with massive breasts". The reason I gave is exactly one of the main reasons  why many men and women object to the Dragon Crown type female character.

 

That starts with the assumption that accurate representation is the goal OR necessary.

 

I personally like acccurate representation, but again - it's not a requirement. It doesn't HAVE to be that way.

 

Fanservice in itself is not bad. Blatant fanservice can tick some people off tough.

But it goes both ways.

Men like to watch bouncing boobs and the lithe, female form.

But don't tell me women don't like firm, hard abs and tonned buttocks.

 

http://now-here-this.timeout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Twilight-Saga-Breaking-Dawn-Part-1-Jacob-Black.jpeg

Edited June 12, 2013 by TrashMan

[Humanoid]

So I was just perusing the front page of the nexus website when I, er, just happened to stumble across the, ahem, hottest new mod for this month. It, um, allows you to customise your adequacy so that no one is marginalised.

 

 

Typical Bethesda relying on modders to implement what was a core feature in SR3.

[TrashMan]

The problem is that sexualization can detract from the character; I won't say that its absolute rule but generally if its just sex for the sake of being, then it does. Just imagine what the audience may have thought if fair Ophelia had a huge rack, swaying from side to side and her manner of attire was similar to that of Dragon Crown. The audience reaction to the whole play would had been different, those that are not imagining a series of ways to have coitus with Ophelia are asking themselves why that little whiny, queermo Hamlet doesn't put the moves on her. It would have completely destroyed the characters.

 

 

 

Wouldn't that be more the problem of audience not seeing past the physical?

Or assuming that any man MUST jump at any attractive woman like a horny animal?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know what you're aiming at and I generally deslike fanservice and oversexualization - especially in anime.

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

I am forced to play a chiseled male super model space marine who wears either skintight uniforms or a kinky cowboy outfit on his space ship

 

Were you at my place last weekend?

[Nixl]

The question that I keep returning to is, are video games suppose to be taken in the same light as life style magazines? Furthermore, has realism ever been an actual goal?

 

From curvy women to massive space marines, were we pushing for realism? 

 

I can agree that over-sexualization and over-pandering is annoying, but trying to take out any form of imagination/idealization for the sake of realism is equally ridiculous. 

[Malcador]

Is that Marouane Fellaini grabbing the boobies?

Chelsea crest, Luiz maybe.

[obyknven]

Nudity Provides Health Benefits for Your Body and Brain.  Because this games with half-naked (or naked) characters promoting healthy lifestyle.  

Games with half-naked girls promoting Feminism and Matriarchy also.

[Nepenthe]

 

I am forced to play a chiseled male super model space marine who wears either skintight uniforms or a kinky cowboy outfit on his space ship

 

Were you at my place last weekend?

 

[Chaz]

 

It's interesting that you try to compare an easily falsifiable thesis to something that's much more subtle and hard to track. By your logic, the problem doesn't exist and there are no chauvinist male gamers.

 

 

There are plenty of Chauvinist men, gaming doesn't cause this kind of sexism, as I said before there are other countries were women are not even treated like people, let me tell you something, these countries are not really big on gaming, You could say that those societies are really patriarchic and sexists, but I would say the cause is lack of education, lack of social development and also religion.

 

 

 

 Yet there are plenty of them and the problem is very much real, ranging from reducing female characters to eye candy (strange how very few male characters are ever reduced to that position) or placing them firmly in gender-typical roles.

Sure there are plenty, but you still don't have a case to say that gaming is to blame. I don't know who you think is "reducing" female characters to eye candy, the devs or the gamers, but I don't know how you can call it "a problem" what's the problem with enjoying some fanservice here or there? nobody is beign harmed after all. And to be fair I almost don't see any fanservice anymore, at least in western games.

 

 

 

Did I say that?

No, but you keep complaining about minor thing, I mean, you say I'm using a straw man argument, but then call a dress with a cleavege "overt sexualization" I mean, you've got to be kidding me.

 

 

 

Because men aren't sexualized like women are? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

 

 

Come on man, pretty much all main male characters could drop their hero careers at any time to make a living as models, they all have great physique and they're all pretty! Chris Redfield, Ezio Auditore, Nathan Drake, Raiden (not the MK one), the new prince of persia, I could go on and on. And they're not sexualized? you can have freaking sex with Alistar from Dragon Age!

 

And you could say that they all have good physique because of their line of work, but beign healthy and in shape doesn't mean that you have to look good, I remember Fedor Emilianenko had a pot belly and went undefeated for many years in MMA. Also  their line of work doesn't justify them beign pretty and charming and all that ****.

 

And to be clear, I have zero issues if a male character is appealing to the gaming ladies, but if a female character is visually appealing to men, well that's a ****ing crime now.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Chaz

[Orogun01]

 

The problem is that sexualization can detract from the character; I won't say that its absolute rule but generally if its just sex for the sake of being, then it does. Just imagine what the audience may have thought if fair Ophelia had a huge rack, swaying from side to side and her manner of attire was similar to that of Dragon Crown. The audience reaction to the whole play would had been different, those that are not imagining a series of ways to have coitus with Ophelia are asking themselves why that little whiny, queermo Hamlet doesn't put the moves on her. It would have completely destroyed the characters.

 

 

 

Wouldn't that be more the problem of audience not seeing past the physical?

Or assuming that any man MUST jump at any attractive woman like a horny animal?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know what you're aiming at and I generally deslike fanservice and oversexualization - especially in anime.

 

In real life and an Ideal world: yes

In works of fictions it shouldn't be that way, the reason why is that characters are there for the service of the story. They are tools which the writer uses to communicate with the audience. Because of time constrains and the necessity of moving the plot forward, things like visual hooks,establishing shots and the like are used to quickly convey information to the audience. Part of the visual is the costuming and if clothes make the man they damn sure make the woman, character concepts are designed around a basic description of who they are; costumes follow this description. 

Also I don't assume that men must jump at any attractive woman, but I don't believe we are so far advanced that we are beyond basic animal instincts. Plus we are talking about overtly sexual, which is just a color in the spectrum of beauty one which plays to promises of  sexual acts by showing nudity.

 

The fact remains that when conceptualizing female characters in video games, one of the requirements seems to be sexy. There is no longer an excuse for it, since graphics are advanced enough that we don't need oversexualization to tell that the character is female (although, the specific case of Dragon's Crown I can see why it may be somewhat necessary)