Xbox 720 Reveal

[mute688]

I'm not a console gamer but I do have concerns with MS going in this direction.  MS is not the largest publisher of xbox games, yet it will dictate how, when and for how much another publisher's product will be sold or traded simply because they produce the hardware that the product is played on.  Would EMI or BMG Chrysalis accept Teac or Yamaha doing something similar with cd players?  Would Warner or Fox be happy for Samsung to do something similar with bluray?  I don't know but I'm fairly confident that the consumers would not be happy.

 

I can only think of one reason for MS to do this.  They think (rightly or wrongly, I don't care) that the used game market is cutting into their profits.  That would indicate that they don't simply wish to control the market, they wish to stop it either by overpricing it into extinction or through complicated, convoluted systems.  They can't allow cheap used game sales or trading because that defeats the purpose of implementing this policy in the first place.  If gamers can still cheaply trade or sell new games, MS is still not making back that profit but they are carrying the extra costs associated with running the system.  Will there be a time limit imposed on new games?  Will new games be unable to be sold or traded for a month, two months, three months?  Will MS be the sole decider or will the publishers make those decisions?

 

I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but people aren't being childish or paranoid for raising concerns with the direction MS seems to be heading.  MS doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to consumer protection.  They have already faced antitrust suits, their history is not exactly littered with customer concern.

[greylord]

 

TBH, I wouldn't care about all of this, if console games wouldn't be so extremely expensive in the first place. A new game for 60 to 70 euro or something along the line... It's madness. I have never bought a pc game for such a price. It's especially madness, considering how fast you are playing through games nowadays and then most likely never touch them again for a long time...

 

For myself, PC games and console games are typically the same price today ($60).

 

Having said that, games inevitably come down in price.  Is waiting not an option?

 

 

I think it depends.  I am the outspoken console player on these forums (Alpha Protocol rocks on the consoles by the way), but I'd say not much can beat the Steam sales in prices...one big reason to remain a PC gamer is that if you know where to buy, you can get PC games dirt cheap.

[Drowsy Emperor]

News update. Taking into account Morgies warning not to take pre order prices seriously its nonetheless interesting that Zavvi has put a up a preorder for PS4 at 400 pounds. same as its preorder fo XBOne. Since Zavvi guarantees the price regardless of changes I suppose they do have some insider info.

 

This means that the consoles will likely cost close to the same amount.

 

This means everyone sensible will buy PS4.

 

Case closed. :D 

[Gorgon]

From Morgoth's Xbox Link

 

 

The system can make sure the user is simply in the room while it plays, or it can tell the user to hold up a specific product. The camera would then scan the item held up and reward the user with an achievement.

 

 

Yeah that's not invasive at all.

[Oerwinde]

 

 

 

 

TBH, I wouldn't care about all of this, if console games wouldn't be so extremely expensive in the first place. A new game for 60 to 70 euro or something along the line... It's madness. I have never bought a pc game for such a price. It's especially madness, considering how fast you are playing through games nowadays and then most likely never touch them again for a long time...

For myself, PC games and console games are typically the same price today ($60).

 

Having said that, games inevitably come down in price. Is waiting not an option?

I think it depends. I am the outspoken console player on these forums (Alpha Protocol rocks on the consoles by the way), but I'd say not much can beat the Steam sales in prices...one big reason to remain a PC gamer is that if you know where to buy, you can get PC games dirt cheap.

Reading the moneysaver at Kotaku is an eye opener on prices. When you have things like the Mass Effect Trilogy on for 10-20 bucks, xcom, civ5 and civ4 bundled for 20 bucks, 75% off deals on steam and amazon, etc. Then you see the big deal for PS3 being God of War Ascension for 20% off or whatnot.

 

Winter sale for Steam has half the library on for 50% off and a bunch more for 75% off, XBL Marketplace responds by putting 6-10 games on for 25% off and the selection is essentially just the platinum hits or the Arcade games no one wants.

 

Its definitely good to be a fan of pc gaming. And thats from someone with all 3 of the current gen systems.

[Meshugger]

I have to say as an owner of a PS3 for the only reason being my blu-ray-player: My god, what a cluster-****  

 

It's like MS took the conversation between Denton and Morpheus and thougth: "Yeah, he is completely right!"

 

[Morgoth]

[Morgoth]

PS4 gonna have used games DRM too

 

What, did you guys really think Sony is gonna emerge as the white knight out of this blood bath here?

[Oerwinde]

From what I gathered, sony was taking the same route they did with online play with the PS2. No centralised system, but architecture in place for publishers to use their own system. That way if EA does it, they look like the pricks, not Sony.

[Hassat Hunter]

We all know the smartest choice is sticking to the PC rather than any of the consoles .
And yeah, it's naive to think Sony wont respond as well.

Since... the fact is; Certain companies (read: Gamestop) make MILLIONS(!) on second-hand sales. Let me just re-itterate that, they make millions of selling other people's work from one person to another. The developer (you know, those people who actually make your game) see nothing of that.
I can't blame Microsoft or Sony that they make an end to this. I wouldn't like it if I worked hard on something and someone else cashes it in. And in this case being *very* successful at it.
Sadly, they resort to such measures to do it, but what options are there? I can't place sole responsibility on them, since it's also a large part due to the second-hand buyers, who enmasse go that route leaving a certain company (read again; Gamestop) with millions of dollars. Dollars Sony and Microsoft wont see a cent of even if they are THEIR products.
It is, truly, not helping them any more than pirate a copy. Except the difference in this case being another party makes a lot of money (PC Pirates generally don't make millions of their business)... and... the consumers do show of a willingness to PAY for the product, something not seen with 'true' piracy.

Anyways, console gamers, prepare to reap what you've sown. You can't count on my sympathy that they took away your ticket to absolutely give them no money. Or, in other words, this crtl+alt+del comic;

[Gorgon]

So ?. That's how things have been with books for as long as anyone can remember. There is no retail system in place anywhere where the manufacturer gets paid every time the item changes hands.

 

Without used games there is no competition which is bad for consumers.

[Hassat Hunter]

Secondhand booksellers don't make quite the profit sendhand game sellers do however.

 

And as mentioned before, the PC market has barely a "used games market"... and it's pricing is far better, and it sales far better than console game-titles.

[Malcador]

Don't understand why people buying used games get such flak, really, from either the companies or other consumers.  I guess it's moot these days, but is a nice idea to not have the use of the product dictated to you after purchase.

[Spider]

Secondhand booksellers don't make quite the profit sendhand game sellers do however.

 

And as mentioned before, the PC market has barely a "used games market"... and it's pricing is far better, and it sales far better than console game-titles.

 

How about second hand car sellers? Pretty sure they make a killing.

[Bester]

Now that you mention it. I think second hand car sellers should pay 50% of their profits to game publishers, that seems fair.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Bester

[Nordicus]

Should have expected Buckley to divide people into camps of "Always buy used games" and "Don't give a **** about used games"

 

Because there's no such thing as an otherwise careful spender who buys stuff at launch when they absolutely want it, right?

 

And as mentioned before, the PC market has barely a "used games market"... and it's pricing is far better, and it sales far better than console game-titles.

Because as far as download titles go, on PC you'll find many digital marketplaces competing for their share.

 

Let's compare the digital competition on Xbox. Okay, there's Xbox Live marketplace, and..... umm... can somebody help me out here?

 

PS4 gonna have used games DRM too

 

What, did you guys really think Sony is gonna emerge as the white knight out of this blood bath here?

You're going to link something that even Kotaku recognizes as a rumor, and word the article like that? Mmmkay

 

How about we also look at something that a proven reliable Sony leaker on NeoGAF has said about it

 

"This is spreading out of the Bonus Round/Doritos pope/keighley heard about sony DRM posts.

 

The gist of it is that Sony is listening to the backlash that Microsoft is getting and they are basing decisions off of this. I would assume MS is also, but I don't know that for sure. But I can say, for sure, that the past week's PR nightmare for MS has not been lost on Sony and they, in fact, do have a used game 'solution' working and have been going back and forth for months on whether to use it. This past week is pushing them strongly into "Yeah, let's not use that."

 

Do you want to give them an extra push? It can't hurt. I've been told by lower level people in the company that tweeting to yosp specifically is quite effective as he likes to gauge what people are thinking. Will a couple hundred posts from neogaf change the entire industry? No. Can it help give a little more momentum to something sony seems to be leaning towards already? I would think so."

Edited May 27, 2013 by Nordicus

[Elerond]

 

Secondhand booksellers don't make quite the profit sendhand game sellers do however.

 

And as mentioned before, the PC market has barely a "used games market"... and it's pricing is far better, and it sales far better than console game-titles.

 

How about second hand car sellers? Pretty sure they make a killing.

 

 

And they are reason why every car manufacturer uses different spare parts and why they cost so much. You usually can buy "new" used car cheaper than fix your old one.

[BruceVC]

I want to ask you guys something about buying second hand PC games. In South Africa the PC game shops generally don't allow this as they claim there would be issue around the legality of the license. In your country how do you get a second hand  game registered online if someone else has already played and registered the game?

I would think the DRM system would reject the authorization code?

[Gorgon]

I thought there was EU legislation in the works to ensure that digital content could change ownership, don't know what happened to it though. 

[Bester]

I thought there was EU legislation in the works to ensure that digital content could change ownership, don't know what happened to it though. 

 

 

Microsoft made a call to Kerry and said "what the **** are we paying you for Kerry? Do you ****ing job". Kerry called Ban Ki-moon and said "Pan, microsoft is all over my ass, you got to kill the initiative". Ban went to talk to Merkel - "angera, kirr the god damn initiative or you won't rike the next credit rating announcement", and that settled the issue.

[Morgoth]

Microsoft made a call to Kerry and said "what the **** are we paying you for Kerry? Do you ****ing job". Kerry called Ban Ki-moon and said "Pan, microsoft is all over my ass, you got to kill the initiative". Ban went to talk to Merkel - "angera, kirr the god damn initiative or you won't rike the next credit rating announcement", and that settled the issue.

 

 

 Beautiful. Just beautiful.

 

[greylord]

What they don't realize is the same thing that others have not realized.  What happens at Gamestop is that MANY buy a new game and then trade it in for credit.  They then turn around and buy another NEW game with that credit.

 

But who cares...100% of 30% of what you used to make is still...

 

Errr...less than 48.8% of 100% of what you make now. (or was that 48.7%?).

[AwesomeOcelot]

Same could be said for piracy, there's people that pirate every game as there's people that buy all games second hand, but there's pirates that buy a lot of games. I think that's why I'm assuming Sony and Microsoft won't kill used games, they'll kill retailers taking all the revenue from used games.

[greylord]

Same could be said for piracy, there's people that pirate every game as there's people that buy all games second hand, but there's pirates that buy a lot of games. I think that's why I'm assuming Sony and Microsoft won't kill used games, they'll kill retailers taking all the revenue from used games.

 

 

Something that is kind of funny.  I visit Asia occasionally. It used to be in some portions of Asia (I suppose Eastern Europe counts as well, but Eastern Europe still has the PC games) that they'd have all sorts of pirated PC games all over the place.  Console games were actually not seen that much.  Over the past ten years however, PC games have largely disappeared from those markets (you can still get whatever PC game you want in pirated form...but normally it's upon request rather than on the floor), though they still have a shelf or two, but the major floor space is taken up by Console games.

 

In fact, in some areas it's practically impossible to find a legit Console game for sale, all they sell are the pirated versions. 

 

When I see that I actually can admit Piracy IS a major problem...but not so much in the West, but in the East.  IF the Game makers could tap into that market, they probably could literally double if not triple their profits...that is if the same people would buy their games (I mean, you could buy ME3 for $.50 to $1 USD).  I buy my games in the West and legit (besides the fact that I want to support those who made the game, you also never know what else is on those disks...viruses and Trojans abound I bet) but in certain areas of the world, piracy really is killing any money they may actually make.  Those people don't go out and buy a legit copy after buying a pirated hardcopy.  Heck...I think MS was trying to sell legit copies of Windows in China for $3 simply so they could sell Windows as opposed to the hacked/almost free copies that were already being sold all over the place!

 

The problem is that the producers are focusing on the West, probably because they don't have enough government cooperation to enforce their copyrights in the East.  Which means that now that it's not as prevalent in the West to get a pirated copy (though still not as hard, but it's not as easy as a simple stroll to the store for most in the West like it is in some areas in the East) there has to be other ways to try to convince people to buy new releases.  In the West I think Piracy actually generates sales (in regards to movies and games) and I agree completely with you.

 

In some areas of the East though, it's a different ballpark altogether.

[Bester]

>xbox one will record all sounds in your home even while switched off
>kinect will use it's camera to record you while playing video games and forcibly pause the game when it cannot detect you
>xbox one will send the data to microsoft where they may share it with third parties
>xbox one requires you to connect to the internet and submit the recorded data atleast once every 24 hours or you will be unable to play your games
>microsoft has already agreed to send the collected data to the government when they request it