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Modern RPG Critique Video

TES IE CRPG Old School

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17 replies to this topic

#1
Luridis

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One of the best modern RPG breakdowns I have ever seen. He does a good job of dodging the Computer vs Console debate and goes right after the issue of trading fans for player$. Sadly, I think he's right and that things like TES & IE games are a thing of the past, unless we, as avid RPGers, keep the crowdsourcing initiative alive. (Well, he didn't say that exactly but it is the logical conclusion.)

 

BTW: I think the industry could really do well by redefining the term casual gamer. Right now, it includes far too many people: children, soccer parents, people who play only in a social setting and low hours players. A person who plays a game more slowly, and puts in few hours per sitting may indeed play casually, but still might not want the challenge of the game reduced to the mental faculties of the average 9 year old.

 


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#2
C2B

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Eh

 

Do think the faults in Bethesda games could be pointed out a lot better.

 

Also, personal preference, the constant comparison of casual gamers = little kids just got me annoyed. But then again, I'm annoyed at the comparison in general. There's plenty of kids that find there way into more complex games and end up liking them and 18+ year olds that complain about not having their hand being hold.


Edited by C2B, 09 February 2013 - 10:37 AM.


#3
Oerwinde

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I think that's the first time I've heard the morrowind convo system praised.

The item value beef is definitely something I share. I actually stopped looting chests in skyrim because there was never anything worth looting

#4
LadyCrimson

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The guy who's narrating that video has the most marvelous, snarky sounding voice. :lol:

Haven't watched the whole thing, have to run out, but I'll finish it later.



#5
Keyrock

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/looks at length of video

 

Can someone throw up a quick tl;dw summary for a lazy guy?


Edited by Keyrock, 13 February 2013 - 09:32 AM.

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#6
LadyCrimson

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Also, personal preference, the constant comparison of casual gamers = little kids just got me annoyed.

I get the feeling the picture was less a specific "casual gamers = physically young kids" as it is a conceptualized, snark reference of mentality maturity. Either way, it is a bit annoying. He could have at least used different pictures each time. ;)

/looks at length of video
 
Can someone throw up a quick tl;dw summary for a lazy guy?

The video lists these as the main points: (text in parenthesis is my own)

1 - You can't fail (can't kill quest npc's and other such stuff)
2 - No consequences for faction membership
3 - You make little impact on the world
4 - Quest and Journal System (chase EZ quest marker, with journal so sparse on details you're essentially forced to use the markers, among other things)
5 - NPC conversations are heavily reduced
6 - Massively oversimplified puzzles
7 - The value of items has been reduced (not just straight cash value but relative value and high lvl stuff too common/easy to get)
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#7
HoonDing

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haters gonna hate



#8
Keyrock

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Also, personal preference, the constant comparison of casual gamers = little kids just got me annoyed.

I get the feeling the picture was less a specific "casual gamers = physically young kids" as it is a conceptualized, snark reference of mentality maturity. Either way, it is a bit annoying. He could have at least used different pictures each time. ;)

>/looks at length of video
 
Can someone throw up a quick tl;dw summary for a lazy guy?

The video lists these as the main points: (text in parenthesis is my own)

1 - You can't fail (can't kill quest npc's and other such stuff)
2 - No consequences for faction membership
3 - You make little impact on the world
4 - Quest and Journal System (chase EZ quest marker, with journal so sparse on details you're essentially forced to use the markers, among other things)
5 - NPC conversations are heavily reduced
6 - Massively oversimplified puzzles
7 - The value of items has been reduced (not just straight cash value but relative value and high lvl stuff too common/easy to get)

 

Thanks LadyCrimson.  I agree that most major RPGs have been dumbed down streamlined.  The most obvious reason is trying to appeal to a wider market of gamers that may be turned off by the "old school" approach of hardcore RPGs.  You can't really blame publishers for that since it's their business to try to make as much profit as possible.  Larger audience = more profit.  There is also the trend in all forms of media, video games included, of trying to hit as many demographics as possible.  They use focus groups to try to find out what what's "hip" and try to appeal to as many different types of people as possible while also trying to offend the least amount of people possible.  The problem with that is that it pushes all games further and further toward a bland "one size fits all category" that offers a tiny bit of what every different type of gamer wants, but not enough to really satisfy either.  Then there's the move toward action focused RPGs.  Part of that is because action focused games tend to appeal to a broader audience than tactical focused games, part is because we now have the technology and experience to actually make action RPGs and make them well, and part is because action focused RPGs naturally lend themselves better to console controllers.

 

The good news is that "old school" style RPGs aren't going anywhere.  They may be declared "dead" in the mainstream just like point n click adventures were, but, just like point n clicks, they will continue to live on as a niche market.  As long as that niche market continues to exist, and I believe it will, the mainstream can go wherever it wants.  I can simply chose not to follow said mainstream.



#9
Bester

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Good video. Some rich philanthropist has got to buy Bethesda and give back to the TES community by making a hardcore TES game with this sole goal in mind instead of looking to make more money. But not in this world. Humanity is selfish and hopeless.



#10
alanschu

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Eh

 

Do think the faults in Bethesda games could be pointed out a lot better.

 

Also, personal preference, the constant comparison of casual gamers = little kids just got me annoyed. But then again, I'm annoyed at the comparison in general. There's plenty of kids that find there way into more complex games and end up liking them and 18+ year olds that complain about not having their hand being hold.

 


Typically it's the kids that aren't casual gamers, in my experience.



#11
entrerix

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when i was 14-15 i was anything but casual about my favorite games.


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#12
HoonDing

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Yeah I was Mortal Kombat champion at my school.



#13
Orogun01

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Good video. Some rich philanthropist has got to buy Bethesda and give back to the TES community by making a hardcore TES game with this sole goal in mind instead of looking to make more money. But not in this world. Humanity is selfish and hopeless.

You mean the TES community that loves making waifu mods, nude meshes and textures and everything worse? Yeah, because the Elders Scrolls are going to go backtrack to their previous iterations.  :rolleyes:



#14
Morgoth

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Everything has to be dumbed down these days.

 

Education, Food, Games....

 

:(


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#15
Meshugger

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In the very end, just follow the money. Meaning, people suck.



#16
NKKKK

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Good video. Some rich philanthropist has got to buy Bethesda and give back to the TES community by making a hardcore TES game with this sole goal in mind instead of looking to make more money. But not in this world. Humanity is selfish and hopeless.

You mean the TES community that loves making waifu mods, nude meshes and textures and everything worse? Yeah, because the Elders Scrolls are going to go backtrack to their previous iterations.  :rolleyes:

Fantasitc rebutal. 



#17
AGX-17

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Also, personal preference, the constant comparison of casual gamers = little kids just got me annoyed.

I get the feeling the picture was less a specific "casual gamers = physically young kids" as it is a conceptualized, snark reference of mentality maturity. Either way, it is a bit annoying. He could have at least used different pictures each time. ;)

/looks at length of video
 
Can someone throw up a quick tl;dw summary for a lazy guy?

The video lists these as the main points: (text in parenthesis is my own)

1 - You can't fail (can't kill quest npc's and other such stuff)
2 - No consequences for faction membership
3 - You make little impact on the world
4 - Quest and Journal System (chase EZ quest marker, with journal so sparse on details you're essentially forced to use the markers, among other things)
5 - NPC conversations are heavily reduced
6 - Massively oversimplified puzzles
7 - The value of items has been reduced (not just straight cash value but relative value and high lvl stuff too common/easy to get)


So, basically, (most) modern RPGs = Skyrim = Bad, right? I can get behind that, all the way. Thanks for the summary, I have better games to play in place of listening to someone else make the same complaints I do while playing Skyrim for half an hour. It really feels like a much longer time when someone else is doing the complaining.

Edited by AGX-17, 18 February 2013 - 02:37 AM.


#18
KaineParker

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Oh another one......

Seriously, everyone knows that mainstream RPGs are being watered down, quite a few people don't like it. Also, Morrowind is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from what I'd consider a perfect RPG. I'd argue Morrowind is where the mainstream RPG slide towards actiony gameplay that fits more on a console than PC began.





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