What's the one RPG trope you can deal without in PE?

[Alexjh]

Prophecies. Would love to have my character be some random schlub, not the Destined One, stopping an evil plot, not the Preordained Plot.

 

This. When I started playing Arcanum recently, I didn't know whether to laugh or smash my head into the wall when, in the wreckage of a crashed zeppelin, a middle aged man in a dapper business suit starts talking about how you're the chosen one and you must defeat the great evil one, then some robed monk type guy comes along and immediately proclaims you are the prophecized reincarnation of the great elven mage-prophet (I should have seen the writing on the wall that Arcanum was really a magic/fantasy game and the tech thing was just a red herring.)

 

 

Stick with it, Arcanum doesn't play out that trope quite how you'd expect, nor the "dark lord" one for that matter.....

Edited January 11, 2013 by Alexjh

[Dream]

Depressing and angsty endings that serve to underline the fragility of life and the hopelessness of our existence.

 

**** that ****.

[Sacred_Path]

A final stage that can only be solved by violence. You almost had it right, Fallout

[maggotheart]

I want to encounter interesting monsters that are new and different or have a different take on an established type. For example, someone mentioned zombies and skeletons - if they're going to be in the game please do something new with them. Look at some of the zombie monsters in Left for Dead, they're vomiting acid on you, grappling you with their tongues and doing other unexpected things. Skeletons could have skulls that can detach and attack, bones that magically knit together if they break, non-humanoid appearances, etc. I just dont want to run into a monster and immediately know everything about it because I've seen it so many times before.

[PrimeJunta]

I'll go with "chosen one" too. Kill it with fire.

[Jarmo]

End boss fight.

 

I don't want to face the toughest opponent in the game in the end of the game.

Give me an ending that's not about pommeling some ancient terror into submission.

[TRX850]

Time limits on quests. The first time I recruited Minsc and agreed to rescue Dynaheir, I took a while getting to the gnoll stronghold (resting a lot) and just as I'd killed the last band of gnolls at the entrance to Dynaheir's pit-prison, Minsc spat his dummy and attacked us for taking too long!

 

We were *right there* ! About to talk to her, and he went berserk on us!

 

Took me another 5 attempts at reloading the game and speeding up the last battle by 2 rounds just to satisfy him.

 

So er, time limits I can do without, unless they are made adjustable for proximity to quest completion.

Edited January 11, 2013 by TRX850

[Kecaw]

Just stupid reasons for your buddies to leave you. Biggest stupidity i have ever seen was in NWN2 right before the last boss, that skeleton dude was using persuasion on some of your team, and the hunter left you beforhand but you could get him to leave the "last fight" overall that was (somewhat) good i can work with that BUT the two mages oh god that was just stupid, whoever had the lower points with you LEFT for no aparent reason (even if it was 99 and the second had 100) "hey um i like you and your cool but ill side with the bad dude and get killed like 5 min after that by the 12 people that are all lvl 20 + with +5 lvl items ok ?" just ... no, leave whenever you like if you dont like me and give me a good reason NOT a stupid one and right before the end.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kecaw

[Umberlin]

If I ever get to write a game, you'll be on an air ship, and it will crash in a primitive land. When you crash you'll be the only survivor. The people will come from miles around, and proclaim you're the chosen one, who has come from the sky as in the prophecy. Then they'll start arguing semnatics about what you're the chosen of, who chose you, and what you're destined to do. Then they'll start arguing and yelling at each other. Then it'll get violent, and they'll start fighting you and screaming at you to support them, and that the others are the vile anti-whatever you are. Then they'll all be dead, having killed each other off.

 

You'll then be alone there, standing in the midst of the carnage - very confused. Then the game will get on with itself and have absolutely nothing to do with anything that just happened.

 

[necromate]

I think I can can do without clearing rats from some lady's basement.

 

Come on! A game without the "rats in the basement" cliché would be just like the Terminator without saying "Hasta la vista, baby!"

If there is a cliché in a game, it has to be the "the old lady and the 7 rats"

 

End boss fight.

 

I don't want to face the toughest opponent in the game in the end of the game.

Give me an ending that's not about pommeling some ancient terror into submission.

 

I agree with you sir! I'd like at least an hour long epilogue after kicking the ass of the bad guy... to see the consequences, or better: the whole game should be about dealing with the consequences of my previous actions... as Kreia from KOTOR2 put it: you are an echo in the force

chain reaction baby!

[nocoolnamejim]

The one thing that I could REALLY do without is that "spunky prodigy" type companion character.

 

Its those characters that are pretty much just kids but are somehow absolutely awesome at what they do and therefore indispinsable and have sassy, bubbly personalities.

[Frenetic Pony]

Prophecies. Would love to have my character be some random schlub, not the Destined One, stopping an evil plot, not the Preordained Plot.

 

I do definitively dislike prophecises. Been reading the Riyria Revelations, and while I really liked the first book I'm not sure when I'll pick the second book up again, as I put it down about thirty pages in after a prohecy came into play. "Well gee, thanks for ruining my suspension of disbelief by taking away the illusion of choice from the main characters." I put up with it in Harry Potter, because it was kind of more clever than usual. But I still despise it.

 

Which brings me to another trope that I generally despise, that of an interesting character turning into the "good guy". Ok, I was fine with it in Star Wars and Han, it was Star Wars. But it's the reason I stopped reading The Dark Tower. The main character in that series starts out as INTERESTING, a unique guy that's different from you average protagonist. By book 3(?) he's 90% of the way towards being a goody two shoes white knight. And that's another reason I stopped reading Riyria, the two main characters go from interesting somewhat amorale types towards "the good guys yay!" almost immediately in the second book.

 

I know it's not "rpg" specific, but if you've got interesting characters, for the love of everything KEEP THEM INTERESTING. I don't want another story about how someone turns their once complex worldviews and utterly relatable self interest around to being some do gooder hero to all. I, at least, just get bored and tired of them as characters.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Frenetic Pony

[IcyDeadPeople]

I think I can can do without clearing rats from some lady's basement.

 

Come on! A game without the "rats in the basement" cliché would be just like the Terminator without saying "Hasta la vista, baby!"

If there is a cliché in a game, it has to be the "the old lady and the 7 rats"

 

 

Perhaps if they turned it on its head, say a talking rat whose basement is infested with old ladies.

[Aoyagi]

I wouldn't mind the "chosen one" cliché as much as lack of fat people, lack of (killable) children, and general political overcorrectness.

 

Also I don't like magicians stuck with staves. In fact, In fact, I hate staves, but that's really personal preference... Why can't they have gloves instead or or... a book! Or nothing at all, I imagine one would prefer to have empty hands while doing some complex hand/finger work to cast a major spell.

[rjshae]

Stopping a random person on the street and have them discourse on the vicissitudes of internecine warfare and the byzantine politics of nation-states.

[AGX-17]

When I started playing Arcanum recently, I didn't know whether to laugh or smash my head into the wall when, in the wreckage of a crashed zeppelin, a middle aged man in a dapper business suit starts talking about how you're the chosen one and you must defeat the great evil one, then some robed monk type guy comes along and immediately proclaims you are the prophecized reincarnation of the great elven mage-prophet (I should have seen the writing on the wall that Arcanum was really a magic/fantasy game and the tech thing was just a red herring.)

Have you beat Arcanum yet? There's a good twist involving that prophesy...

 

And the tech is fun, I love my gunslinger.

 

No, it's kind of nearly impossible to get anything done with a gun-using character early in the game (bullets are in short supply and I get the standard D20 90% misses and 50% of those are critical misses.) I don't like the way the leveling system works (one point per level, this one point is shared by attributes and skills alike,) because if you don't severely railroad a character into focusing on one skill and its relevant attribute you're kind of a jack-of-no-trades.

Edited January 12, 2013 by AGX-17

[adarmus]

Loot grinding. I hate the need to sell tonnes of rusty swords to be able to afford the super special rusty sword +1. I do not want to check every barrel, chest and fallen enemy I encounter. This just becomes tedious, especially for someone who is completely OCD about it like I am. More importantly though, I believe it breaks immersion; why am I on an important journey of untold dangers yet am lugging around all this junk to sell like some common trader. Elite/Special weapons and items should be rare and only found through quests and/or defeated "bosses". As for vendors, they should only sell consumables, crafting items and perhaps common weapons. These could be afforded through cash earned from quests, gambling and other methods someone with more imagination than me might come up with.

 

Of course, this could have problems with what to do with your rogue character if there is not untold wealth to be found in lock picking tonnes of chests *yawn*. Well, one idea might be chests, locked doors, or npcs to be pick pocketed providing alternative routes or, information, items or methods to completing quests.

 

Secondly, quests that have no connection whatsoever to your overall goals such as kill the rats in the basement/fetch this/ kill x amount of that/ deliver item. Again, this breaks immersion yet the player is basically forced to complete them in order to accrue the experience points necessary to level their character.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I thought of another one, I despise having to pick my starting class or role before I even play the game. A rogue in game x may play way different than a rogue in game y, but I don't know that until dozens of hours in and you realize how much you don't like the class, but now you have to weigh the options of playing through and suck it up, or waste a weekend replaying the same content over hoping it's something more fun. I much prefer let me play the game, and just allow me to use the game mechanics to do what I want. Although from the wee bit I've read, I think PE is addressing some of those areas.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I thought of another one, I despise having to pick my starting class or role before I even play the game. A rogue in game x may play way different than a rogue in game y, but I don't know that until dozens of hours in and you realize how much you don't like the class, but now you have to weigh the options of playing through and suck it up, or waste a weekend replaying the same content over hoping it's something more fun. I much prefer let me play the game, and just allow me to use the game mechanics to do what I want. Although from the wee bit I've read, I think PE is addressing some of those areas.

 

I don't ever think I have had that problem with a game with well documented mechanics and a decent manual. I love being able to design the PC's abilities before I play the game.

 

No, it's kind of nearly impossible to get anything done with a gun-using character early in the game (bullets are in short supply and I get the standard D20 90% misses and 50% of those are critical misses.) I don't like the way the leveling system works (one point per level, this one point is shared by attributes and skills alike,) because if you don't severely railroad a character into focusing on one skill and its relevant attribute you're kind of a jack-of-no-trades.

 

Yeah, Arcanum was not very well designed IMO. Arcanum would have been much better if different point systems were used for different things or if there were different costs between abilities(like GURPS) and if the combat system was better designed.

[Balzeron]

No, it's kind of nearly impossible to get anything done with a gun-using character early in the game (bullets are in short supply and I get the standard D20 90% misses and 50% of those are critical misses.) I don't like the way the leveling system works (one point per level, this one point is shared by attributes and skills alike,) because if you don't severely railroad a character into focusing on one skill and its relevant attribute you're kind of a jack-of-no-trades.

 

There's a schematic for bullets, pick it up as soon as you enter Tarant. One of the two ingredients can be found in 7 out of 10 trash cans, so the cost is minimal. Arcanum does NOT use a D&D based roll system, so there is no 'D20' in that game. If you miss (or critically miss) a lot as a gunslinger, that's dependant on your Perception, or if you have the....Nietzche Poster Child background I think it is. You get one point per level, 2 at every 5 level increment, and if you reach a high level, you'll have more points than you know what to do with, and still be fairly overpowered. You need to focus in the beginning to be able to kill things, but once you do, you can spread out and pick up other skills without suffering. Not to mention followers to back you up.

 

Personally I think you're being over-critical of the game, because while Arcanum isn't perfect, is prone to bugs, and could be balanced better, the game is brilliant. I could talk your ear off about Arcanum, if you want some more legitimate tips, PM me.

 

@Adarmus

 

Too lazy to quote you, but I get what you're saying. While I agree with you, the entire time I read your post I kept hearing "baby steps" echo in the back of my head. If our hero isn't some pre-ordained cosmic holy Ubermensch, exactly how is he supposed to go from rags-to-riches without doing a little legwork?? I personally enjoy exploring all the little side areas game makers put in, no matter what it is. I play games like this for this very reason. If I wanted a straight-up, linear gaming experience with no side stuff, I'd go play Call of Duty.

[adarmus]

@ Prestidigitator

 

I am all for side quests and other content that will allow my character to grow and that more importantly flesh out the world in which I am roleplaying, making for a far richer experience. In fact, if done right these can often be more enjoyable than the main quest. However, I ask for side quests that are interesting and fit within the overall goals of my character; I always find it hard to swallow that I can find the time to kill the rats, or deliver the package for random unimportant npc etc while working towards killing the big bad.

 

Like many here, I am no Call of Duty fan. I have been playing RPGs in various forms for 30 of my 40 years and enjoy them as much today as when I first through down some dice; I wouldn't be here otherwise. Yet, I grow tired of the same old scenarios played out over and over in my CRPG's and tabletop games run by unimaginative DM's.

 

I understand my other point is a controversial one as many people love their loot, however I do not believe that ransacking everything in sight adds to the experience at all. There is one exception though - I do enjoy reading various books throughout the world, sucking in every bit of lore possible. Just one thing though, have the books in believable locations and not inside a barrel at the marketplace.

[JFSOCC]

Stopping a random person on the street and have them discourse on the vicissitudes of internecine warfare and the byzantine politics of nation-states.

I do that all the time. Am I not supposed to? is that why I get those looks?

[Gavinfoxx]

Let's see...

 

"I use this powerful ability in this scripted combat, but when I join you, I can't use it!"

 

"Barging into people's houses and rummaging through their stuff, with no consequences!"

[Hormalakh]

Barging into people's houses without consequences.

 

Being able to rest anywhere and at any time without consequences. Having taverns all over the place where you can pay for resting, but nobody really uses it.

 

Drinking alcohol and it having no real gameplay consequences other than the short "drunk" phase which you just walk off.

[rjshae]

Being able to rest anywhere and at any time without consequences.

 

Yeah. How about sleeping in the gutter, only to wake up as a pack of street urchins scatter to the four winds with all of your loot?