Anime - the emotional rolercoaster.

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, KaineParker said:

At least you're not counting her amongst the worst parts of your life.

Shame he's not FInnish.  Then that'd be a sensible way to look at it.

[majestic]

Ah, you guys...

Anyway, more SuperS spoilers:

Spoiler

One of the issues with the season is that due to the new, let's say, season MacGuffin mechanics the episodes where random people are attacked have an undue focus on them. Since it's about dreams this time instead of harvesting energy or seeing if their pure heart is a talisman (by the way, @Bartimaeushave you figured out who has them yet? ) the show takes some time to make the viewer familiar with the dreams of the random person.

Sometimes these people have forced connections to our heroes. A friend of Makoto's from the school she transferred away from (or was transferred away from, at any rate) is invented but never heard from, Mamoru's mechanic (who Ami for a moment believes him to have an affair with, which was actually sort of hilarious), Chibi-Usa's art teacher, Motoki's girlfriend, a sword fighter in training, a designer, eh, you catch my drift.

All hat focus on one time characters is wasted effort. They never show up again. Granted, they also mostly don't in the other seasons unless it's Naru who gets attacked a crapton of times and is one of only two (I think!) side characters I think to ever figure out who Sailor Moon is on their own (Naru pretty much all but confirms it in R and Mamoru's college classmate gives up on him because she realizes she cannot compete with Sailor Moon).

The difference? The difference... in that episode where Minako and Usagi stalk Haruka, the Death Busters attack a mechanic too, but he's just there to have his pure heart crystal sucked out by a Daimon. The focus of the episode is clearly the adventures of our loveable blonde dum-dums.

As a kid's show, Sailor Moon was always meant to be formulaic, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but the formula really hits hard in SuperS. When it is a main character that gets targeted the episodes generally fun. I mean, except for the creepy undertone that's always there. It's not really as much fun as it could be to see Minako trying to two-time when we know that both of the boys are... just looking to assault her.

It's hard to believe that this was written by the same team that made S. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't checked the writing credits.

Well at least this creepy arc doesn't last the entire season, only like a bit more than half of it. I'll be over soon.

[Bartimaeus]

That does sound like a lot of wasted effort - as I mentioned in an earlier post about Adventure Time, I'm really not a fan of spending major time and investment on characters that don't really matter (at least, not in a show like this where clearly the focus should always belong to the main cast).

Spoiler

One small investment on other characters that I did like, and wouldn't have minded even a little more from to give them a little more time to naturally grow, was the Spectre Sisters in R. It was nice to see them not get completely wiped from existence like every other minor female villain had been up to that point, and it was cool to see them pop up a few times later in the season, including an important sequence with Saphir. I think that was important to do after spending so much time on them (although that didn't prevent others in a similar situation previous to this from being murdered).

Also, no, I haven't figured it out yet, nor can I seem to logically deduce who they might be. Rei was already targeted and didn't have it, which would seem to logically rule out the Sailor Guardians...but perhaps two of them are Haruka and Michiru themselves, which would be hilarious.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

Spoiler

Well the Spectre Sisters weren't exactly one time random people who just happened to be the target, so that's fine with me, and Saphir dying hit hard in the feels with poor Petz, so with that sort of payoff they can develop recurring side characters as much as they like.

I have a feeling you're going to like Minako's second focus episode. It's hilarious and kicks off some story progression, but it'll be a while yet. How far along are you now?

edit: Oh, and there's a scene later when the Professor explains how the Talismans actually look, you'll see them on screen for a bit. It was all but impossible to figure this out during the original run but you might see something familiar in the images. It's... a LOT easier to catch when binge watching.

Adventure Time is something I never tried because of the way it looks. It's available on Netflix I think and Netflix actually recommended it to me at some point. Is it worth trying to get past the artstyle?

Edited February 1, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

I'm on episode 6, one before your mentioned Makoto episode. Wow, I actually got her name right on the first try for once. For some reason, I always think her name is "Matoko" instead - she's the only one whose name I have trouble with. Minako has consistently had some of my favorite episodes, so it's difficult to envision me not liking it, .

As for Adventure Time...it's a very frustrating show. I was put off by the animation style as well, but eventually got used to and started liking it to a degree. The real problem is that the show is so incredibly up and down in terms of enjoyment - there are times where the show is incredible, meaningfully tackling issues of life and being human, having great characters play off each other, interesting overarching plots and character development...and then there are stretches of the show where you could literally skip 10 episodes at a time and only miss either episodes where most or even all of the cast decided just to not show up, episodes where characters act outrageously stupid (and not in a funny way) or out-of-character, with just the worst episode plotlines. I eventually started paying attention to the writers of each episode because there were a few writers who would consistently put out absolute garbage and a few who would consistently put out great stuff and so I better knew what to expect on an episode-to-episode basis, but it was still incredibly frustrating and no way to run what should be a good show.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm on episode 6, one before your mentioned Makoto episode. Wow, I actually got her name right on the first try for once. For some reason, I always think her name is "Matoko" instead - she's the only one whose name I have trouble with. Minako has consistently had some of my favorite episodes, so it's difficult to envision me not liking it, .

I consistently have to proof-read my posts and replace any "Bunny" I find with Usagi. It's too ingrained. I can't imagine how confusing this must be for people who saw the DiC dub first.

Spoiler

Episode 6. Hmmm. Umino making an ass of himself in front of everyone is fun, but it's wedged between really good episodes, so it feels a little flat. I mean, not that it's bad. I had a good few laughs (shrimp of love, sweat and tears all right) and any episode where Ami expresses any sort of romantic desire to the confusion of everyone else is fine with me. Can't help it, she's adorable, and she doesn't really get to do enough.

But that's been her lot ever since. At first she only got a defensive power, and now that she got something to kick ass with she's not really using it too much.

 

[Sarex]

12 hours ago, majestic said:

Adventure Time is something I never tried because of the way it looks. It's available on Netflix I think and Netflix actually recommended it to me at some point. Is it worth trying to get past the artstyle?

Adventure Time struggles with keeping a balance between being a kids show and doing any meaningful stories. It mostly does this by either doing a serious episode or doing a childish episode with no real substance.

[Bartimaeus]

33 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Adventure Time struggles with keeping a balance between being a kids show and doing any meaningful stories. It mostly does this by either doing a serious episode or doing a childish episode with no real substance.

Especially in the first five or six seasons. Some of the "childish" episodes are really not good and feel like they were written by aliens (when in fact, it was just hack fraud writers who didn't even have the memory to remember some of their main characters' most important traits, including some that directly contradict what you, the hack fraud writer, are trying to do with them!). Never have I gone through a show where on an episode to episode basis I could go "man, this show is great, very excited for the next episode!" to "dear lord, why am I even watching this, will I have constitution and willpower to sit through another episode?".

@majestic It should be noted that what was considered to be one of the best story writers (and certainly the best songwriter) on Adventure Time, Rebecca Sugar, went on to make Steven Universe, which is my all-time favorite show (and actually, in retrospect, shares a lot of similarities with Sailor Moon, especially in terms of how it handles its character interactions...and no surprise, apparently she was a Sailor Moon turbo-nerd growing up). That's one I can recommend, albeit with the caveat that it takes getting to about the halfway mark of the first season to get its footing (and for the titular character to mature a bit). It's also a show that's a lot easier to watch now that it's finished due to its frustrating and extremely troubled development and schedule.

Spoiler

what the hell why is mako going head-over-heels for Haruka too lmao

(e): wait a second, it'd be hilarious if it was Usagi, Mako, and Minako being the ones with the pure heart talismans, on account of their apparent gayness for Haruka

(e): lmao literally like a minute later Jupiter gets attacked, good call me

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Bartimaeus]

@majestic see my edit in my previous post in the spoiler

Spoiler

is this real life, is it really going to be these three because they're so gay for Haruka? lmao

(e): nope, they got me, it was a fake-out. dang

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

  

Speaking about Adventure Time (was already typing this post, so... don't want to fiddle a quote in up here) I see. That does sound more frustrating than fun (incidentially the same thing as Sailor Moon SuperS, stupid fourth season, really).

More random Sailor Moon SuperS musings and observations:
 

Spoiler

I take back what I've said about Fish-Eye being the least creepy of the SuperS bad guys. There's an epsiode where he goes after what's probably a 13 year old boy. Geez. Not as creepy as Creepegasus, but not much better either. Oh, and I'm perfectly certain now that I've missed some episodes of SuperS when it first aired.

Or I've appied liberal helpings of brain bleach. I barely remember the plot of this season as it is, let alone single episodes.

Anyway, it was such a weird creative decision to link Usagi's and Chibi-Usa's attack and transformation scenes. The amount of contrivance necessary for them to always happen to run into each other at exactly the right time is mindboggling.

Still having a hard time believing this is from the same staff that made S. I mean, except the executive producer, but the replacement was already a producer on R and S, I think, so that can't be it either. With no other recourse I blame executive meddling on this one, completely without proof.

Also, Mako-Chan blabble time! Yay.

Spoiler

 

I know it looks that way, but I think Makoto meant it when she said that this wasn't romantic or sexual attraction. I mean, yes, of course this episode also has an overt theme of Makoto being completely besotted with Haruka to the point where you might think she's fallen in love, but that wasn't really the point. At least, I think. It might be both though, but Makoto never again shows any sign of finding women attractive I think. 

Remember how she talks to Usagi at the beginning of the episode. Makoto, in spite of being all loveable and nice, was pretty much all alone before she met her. Granted, most of the girls were for their own reasons, that's why I said Usagi is like the heart of the group. She doesn't even think she has a talent for cooking, but she merely applied her focus and determination to learning how to be a good traditional woman as her way to try and integrate herself into a society that rejected her for the most superficial of reasons.

The tomboyish character of the team is the only one of them who is really good at cleaning and cooking. Except for Mamoru. His appartement sure looks like he spends all his time cleaning when Usagi isn't around to trash it, or spills burnt cookies or other food everywhere. 

So, unlike Makoto, Haruka doesn't have body image problems (or has overcome them). Not only is she openly lesbian but also androgynous to the point of being mistaken for a man, she also constantly intrudes on male dominated domains (i.e. auto or motocross racing... still is predominantly male sports in 2021), and she doesn't give a flying f*ck or two about what society thinks of her. Makoto adores her for that.

This is one of the things where you'd need to stop and examine the cultural context and time the anime is set it. I know Makoto's body image problems look strange when viewed through Western eyes insofar as being tall is associated with being attractive, but being this far outside of normal at that age is a really painful experience.

There's a chance that I'm overinterpreting here. I don't think I am.

Oh, and that scarf daimon was just hilarious. What more could you want from an episode of a series that started with the titular character getting trapped in one goofy situation after the other. Heh.

edit:

Now that I read this, I think my love for this episode might also be based no small amount on projection and identification. Make of that what you will.

Edited February 1, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

Spoiler

My thinking was that there was some sort of cosmic attraction going on between Haruka and the Pure Heart Talismans, drawing them near to her...which would be why the three stooges of the group were all attracted to her, if those three were indeed the Pure Heart Talismans. However, since that didn't end up being right and I got completely faked out, your explanation makes a lot of sense, and is probably what Makoto was fumbling trying to explain to the others. Maybe a little bit of attraction, but definitely a lot of a bit of admiration and relatability, more like a hero-figure to her. ...This also means Usagi and Minako are still just idiots, which is an acceptable outcome as well. Also, it would've been really weird if just three of the Sailor Guardians were the Pure Heart Talisman-carriers but not the other two, so I'm glad that didn't come to past.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

So, and now think back to episode one, ever thought you'd have THAT kind of discussion about this anime?

[Bartimaeus]

14 minutes ago, majestic said:

So, and now think back to episode one, ever thought you'd have THAT kind of discussion about this anime?

I'm not the biggest themes guy (with rare exception, looking for messages and ideals in media has just generally never been for me - when it happens, it has been rare and profound upon me), but when framed to directly and sensibly impact the characters and their depth in this manner, it is indeed all the more enrichening, .

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So they went from energy harvesting schemes with monsters to turning humans who used to be monsters back into monsters after stealing their crystals. I don't like this bit as much as it's not funny like the energy harvesting schemes were. The reused attack animations is also really wearing, and it's weird how Ami and Rei pause in the middle. "PHIAH.......SOOOOLE" can only be heard so many times.

It's still enjoyable enough tho

[majestic]

You should really start timing the stock footage and skip the seconds. Talking out of my behind here but whatever you use to watch Hulu must have a skip 10 seconds functionality of some sort.

Sailor Moon gets regular attack changes, the other Guardians sadly less often, but something tells me you're not going to like Burning Mandala any better than Fire Soul.

edit:

@Bartimaeus

Spoiler

yeah I was pretty glad that it wasn't Rei or Makoto the first time I've seen S. Haruka and Michiru are pretty clear that removing the talismans will kill whomever they were taken from. I already had enough dead Guardians from the first season at that point (Sailor Moon, R and S aired back to back) Double spoilers (no, I'm not telling you who has the talismans

Spoiler

Plus it leads to one of the most hilarious sequences in Sailor Moon when Minako ends up being the last to have her pure heart crystal taken.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

23 minutes ago, majestic said:

You should really start timing the stock footage and skip the seconds. Talking out of my behind here but whatever you use to watch Hulu must have a skip 10 seconds functionality of some sort.

Sailor Moon gets regular attack changes, the other Guardians sadly less often, but something tells me you're not going to like Burning Mandala any better than Fire Soul.

I tried doing that but kept going past stuff.

I've already seen that with Moon Healing Escalation. It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't stock footage, but alas low budget 90s animation couldn't really support anything else. At least there's Sailor Moon Kick.

[Bartimaeus]

There are times where I'm in the mood for watching the attack animations, and times where I'm not. On MPC-HC, a single right arrow goes forward five seconds. It takes like six right arrows to get through Usagi's attack animation, which seems a bit excessive.

I also got annoyed by specifically Ami's ridiculously long pause early on (which was the most odd-sounding of all attacks). Bubble.......................................................................................spray! Poor Ami getting hosed on all fronts, .

Edited February 2, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

Found Ninja Scroll on an old DVD, good old 90s violent anime with gratuitous nudity.  No wonder it was one of the first anime movies I'd seen in Canada

[HoonDing]

I don't recall it to be gratuitous. Like he could only beat that dude in the beginning because of the chick's poison body.

Edited February 2, 2021 by HoonDing

[Amentep]

Eh, it was pretty gratuitous.  

Then again I didn't really like Ninja Scroll, so I might not be the best judge.

[HoonDing]

Just wanting to mention in passing I appreciate this thread being started by someone called Trashman.

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, HoonDing said:

I don't recall it to be gratuitous. Like he could only beat that dude in the beginning because of the chick's poison body.

Well, suppose all nudity is gratuitous, but stuff like her reporting to her boss who can't take a break from banging a woman was pretty funny.  

[majestic]

So far watching Sailor Moon SuperS has been an exercise in frustration. It's not going to mar my enjoyment of Sailor Moon as a whole, and there are some worthwhile and fun moments too, it just feels less. Less what? Less everything. I also find it odd how little I remember of this season as a whole. The general plot, yes, single episodes? Barely*. I know I watched it when it aired, because it was immediately followed by Sailor Moon Sailor Stars (and I remember liking it more than SuperS though it felt like a Sailor Moon S rehash at times).

Following Sailor Moon S was always going to be hard, realistically, but to have fallen so low?

I am really curious what you guys think of it. "Guys" is assuming anyone else other than @Bartimaeuskeeps or starts watching. Because I am open to the idea that I'm too harsh on this season, and I hope that the new group of enemies that comes with the second half of the season will be more fun to watch. My lack of significant memories suggests differently, but... who knows.

*To explain why this is significant which seems strange given we're talking about something that aired like 23 years ago: X-Files as even longer ago and I can recite specific plot points from episodes based on the title or images from the episode alone. I can pretty much do so with Stargate's SG1 and Atlantis (which ran longer and later, respectively), any of the Star Trek shows from the TNG era, a long list of movies I've seen at the time (and most obviously the other Sailor Moon episodes).

My ability to do that is tarnished when binge watching where episodes tend to morph into one amorphous blob of information** rather than separate entities (worse if the show tells a serialized story), in other words. I remember what happened, when it happened in the storyline, etc., but I do not remember in which specific plot points come up in which episodes. I once hard spoiled a colleague at work because he told me he'd seen episode three our four of a show and I was like "yeah that's when that totally unexpected and rad plot twist happens where..." and he was like "no not at all" which was a little awkward. Because that was one episode later. I... digress, I think. Sorry.

Watching Sailor Moon at a pace of one episode per day is more or less fast enough to trigger that, with some exceptions, but even so with the three prior seasons the visual stimulus of seeing the episode managed to untangle that while watching. It doesn't for SuperS. I'm curious to see if it will for Sailor Stars.

** The absolutely worst instance of which happened when I binge watched FMA and Brotherhood back to back. I have no idea which is which. Heh.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think I'm 75% through season 1. Something I've found a lot funnier in hindsight is

When the guy who turns out to be a monster has a crush on Ami and Usagi gives him a picture of Ami eating a hamburger

The ugly green cat and Tuxedo Umino Kamen back to back had me laughing pretty hard as well. The rest has been ok but not super memorable.

[Bartimaeus]

That hamburger picture was great...courtesy of Usagi, of course. One thing I should specifically note is that for most of my time with the show, I've watched episodes in short bursts. What I mean by this is that I would watch 3 episodes at a time...then not watch any at all for a few days, then another few, then maybe none for an entire week, then another 4. I think if I had watched an episode or two every single day, it probably wouldn't have been as good or fresh, but I kind of spaced things out in a "well, I had a great time, no need to push it any further, I'll get back to it when I want to get back to it and when I can" kind of way...but I know probably most people don't watch things that way, especially if they have time in their day to fill (whereas for me, I'm specifically having to make time that I'm taking away from stuff I want to do or should be doing in order to watch it). For specifically season 1, I would say all but a handful of episodes were really memorable for me (and I think all or almost all of them occurred in like the last third of the season, when things start to get a little more serious - there were some good moments in some of the more serious episodes, but it's very much less my thing compared to the all-out silliness).

I'm still only seven episodes into S, and I will not have much time to watch for probably the next week or two, but I'll try to get a few in at some point here. It's a shame that SuperS sounds so...not great, I hope Sailor Stars ends up being at least a moderate redemptive ending, .