US Election 2012...the aftermath

[Blodhemn]

Yep, I don't think that having less GDP is a bad thing.

 

Also I think it is quite funny that some of the most Republican states get the most money from the federal government.

A lot of those numbers could be broken down to the simple fact that the states on the right have fewer rich people and industry, thus there's less federal taxes to be generated. I don't see the crime in getting federal dollars back since the federal system is a parasite anyway. But some of the so called "conversative" states do need to answer for running a budget into the dirt.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

A lot of those numbers could be broken down to the simple fact that the states on the right have fewer rich people and industry, thus there's less federal taxes to be generated. I don't see the crime in getting federal dollars back since the federal system is a parasite anyway. But some of the so called "conversative" states do need to answer for running a budget into the dirt.

 

So it is okay for the Republican states to parasite off the Democratic States? Why the hell should Alabama get California's money? Those freeloaders should only get what they put in.

[Blodhemn]

A lot of those numbers could be broken down to the simple fact that the states on the right have fewer rich people and industry, thus there's less federal taxes to be generated. I don't see the crime in getting federal dollars back since the federal system is a parasite anyway. But some of the so called "conversative" states do need to answer for running a budget into the dirt.

 

So it is okay for the Republican states to parasite off the Democratic States? Why the hell should Alabama get California's money? Those freeloaders should only get what they put in.

Show me where the hell I said it's "ok"?

 

And I thought Liberals are supposed to be all about the poor. My mistake.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Show me where the hell I said it's "ok"?

 

Very well.

 

 

 

I don't see the crime in getting federal dollars back since the federal system is a parasite anyway.

 

That good enough for you? You don't see a problem in getting federal dollars.

 

And I thought Liberals are supposed to be all about the poor. My mistake.

 

I'm not a Liberal. I will give credit where credit is due though. And generally the Democratic states have been supporting those parasitic republican states.

[Humodour]

Yep, I don't think that having less GDP is a bad thing.

 

Also I think it is quite funny that some of the most Republican states get the most money from the federal government.

A lot of those numbers could be broken down to the simple fact that the states on the right have fewer rich people and industry, thus there's less federal taxes to be generated. I don't see the crime in getting federal dollars back since the federal system is a parasite anyway. But some of the so called "conversative" states do need to answer for running a budget into the dirt.

 

"I'M A LIBERTARIAN - GOVERNMENT REDISTRIBUTION IS EVIL! EXCEPT WHEN IT GOES TO REPUBLICAN STATES!"

 

Besides the fact that evidence-based government redistribution is actually a very good thing (e.g. universal health coverage), and that Libertarianism is nuts, you're really contradicting yourself matey.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Krezack

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

"I'M A LIBERTARIAN - GOVERNMENT REDISTRIBUTION IS EVIL!*

 

*EXCEPT WHEN IT GOES TO REPUBLICAN STATES

 

 

Fixed that for you. Now it could pass for the republican motto.

[Hurlshort]

Huh, that makes the democratic states look great, actually.

Yeah, if you believe government creates wealth then you would see it that way. You can take several things from it depending on your view. It doesn't remove the fact that more democratic states are higher towards the top in debt despite having more average gdp. Government answer to that is tax more.

 

I don't think you really understand how a debt to income ratios work. That GDP is the most important thing, even with all the debt issues that a state like California has, it still generates a brickload of wealth and is in nowhere near the hot water of a country like Greece.

 

Texas is probably the only red state that could actually afford to be independent.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Hurlshot

[Blodhemn]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

@Krezack - you're an idiot.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

@Hurlshot - I think you deliberately misunderstand what I type.

 

Furthermore, the whole debt/federal dollars pay in/take out ratio also is affected by the type method each state uses with long-term/short-term debt. California owes a ****load more in debt than anyone, but they pay it back quicker. Sure, let's demonize everyone else because they don't have the upfront capital to do that.

[Calax]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

@Krezack - you're an idiot.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

@Hurlshot - I think you deliberately misunderstand what I type.

 

Furthermore, the whole debt/federal dollars pay in/take out ratio also is affected by the type method each state uses with long-term/short-term debt. California owes a ****load more in debt than anyone, but they pay it back quicker. Sure, let's demonize everyone else because they don't have the upfront capital to do that.

I think, sir, the point that you fail to factor in, is that if you look at how the budgets of the states that are taking more money vs giving it, you'd find that the Federal dollars they're receiving are closing their budget gap. Meanwhile the states that are having the money taken are just widening their deficit that they need to close... somehow. Iowa has a small deficit because of just how much money is being poured into the corn industry. California is losing money because they're taxed, but have so few federal programs that benefit them (and a messed up initiative system that doesn't allow them to adjust how they spend their money... and their property taxes are odd) they end up paying out more, and having to work from their own pocket for things like education.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

Sorry that we critically read and analyze data.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

Then it throws everyone's tax dollars at Republican states, who then send congressmen to DC who are hell bent on preventing federal dollars spent wisely and would prefer to steal the money from hard working Democratic states who put in more than they get. Why is it ok for those parasitic freeloaders to steal my money?

[Blodhemn]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

@Krezack - you're an idiot.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

@Hurlshot - I think you deliberately misunderstand what I type.

 

Furthermore, the whole debt/federal dollars pay in/take out ratio also is affected by the type method each state uses with long-term/short-term debt. California owes a ****load more in debt than anyone, but they pay it back quicker. Sure, let's demonize everyone else because they don't have the upfront capital to do that.

I think, sir, the point that you fail to factor in, is that if you look at how the budgets of the states that are taking more money vs giving it, you'd find that the Federal dollars they're receiving are closing their budget gap. Meanwhile the states that are having the money taken are just widening their deficit that they need to close... somehow. Iowa has a small deficit because of just how much money is being poured into the corn industry. California is losing money because they're taxed, but have so few federal programs that benefit them (and a messed up initiative system that doesn't allow them to adjust how they spend their money... and their property taxes are odd) they end up paying out more, and having to work from their own pocket for things like education.

An actual intelligent post. Thanks for that and I agree with this.

[Zoraptor]

By running up the debt until we can't even pay the interest while the Fed keeps creating money out of nothing. Look at Japan, they've been following the same policies US is following now for 20 years since their real estate bubble burst and they're still mired in recession, while their debt is astronomical.

It isn't really appropriate to compare the two. Japan's problems are fundamentally different from those in the US- the Japanese oversave rather than overspend, their currency is greatly overvalued and they have a historical problem with deflation. That's pretty close to the exact reverse of the situation in the US.

 

I think when the Daily show went to the RNC, they found that most of the "We should run this nation like a business" people were from states that recieved the most money from the Feds, and thus were "Failed businesses" that should be cut/sold.

The thing is that- even as someone who drops off the scale of the political compass at both the left and libertarian ends- it would be eminently sensible to actually run a government like a business. The thing is of course is that politicians gonna politicise and, as always, telling people that they can have their cake (entitlements for the left, tax cuts for the right) and eat it too will always win more elections than grim realism. If by some miracle a properly responsible bunch were voted in they'd have to deal with large scale historic debt immediately putting them at a disadvantage for being re-elected and inevitable myopic populism and promises to reverse everything from the opposition.

[obyknven]

 

http://en.wikisource...gi_from_Yuggothhttp://en.wikisource...gi_from_Yuggoth

XXI. Nyarlathotep

And at the last from inner Egypt came

The strange dark One to whom the fellahs bowed;

Silent and lean and cryptically proud,

And wrapped in fabrics red as sunset flame.

Throngs pressed around, frantic for his commands,

But leaving, could not tell what they had heard;

While through the nations spread the awestruck word

That wild beasts followed him and licked his hands.

Soon from the sea a noxious birth began;

Forgotten lands with weedy spires of gold;

The ground was cleft, and mad auroras rolled

Down on the quaking citadels of man.

Then, crushing what he chanced to mould in play,

The idiot Chaos blew Earth's dust away.

 

Written 1929-30

 

The Stars are almost right.

[kirottu]

I don't think you're even trying anymore Oby dear.

[Pope]

http://disappearingromney.com/

[GuybrushWilco]

That's amusing, but it only stands out because you read into it what you want to read into it. Like all of that Nostradamus stoff, it is written vaguely enough, that it can mean anything. Also, if you are suggesting that H.P. Lovecraft had some kind of precognitive ability, then I doubt he would believe it, since he was an avowed atheist.

[Hurlshort]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

@Krezack - you're an idiot.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

@Hurlshot - I think you deliberately misunderstand what I type.

 

Furthermore, the whole debt/federal dollars pay in/take out ratio also is affected by the type method each state uses with long-term/short-term debt. California owes a ****load more in debt than anyone, but they pay it back quicker. Sure, let's demonize everyone else because they don't have the upfront capital to do that.

 

I apologize if you feel I am misunderstanding you, it is not intentional.

 

I also think there are less liberals here than you realize. Krezack is the only true liberal, and he's way over on that. Most of the folks here are closer to moderates.

[Raithe]

"If a man is not a liberal in his youth, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative in his old age, he has no brain."

[HoonDing]

Inner Egypt? More like, Inner Kenya.

[obyknven]

Inner Egypt? More like, Inner Kenya.

Inner Egypt means Africa.

And wrapped in fabrics red as sunset flame.

Fabrics red means Kenya

[GuybrushWilco]

Obama is from Hawaii, and people just need to accept that and get over it.

[obyknven]

[Amentep]

What amazes me about these people is they can talk about patriotism and secession in the same breath and not see the hypocrisy.

 

I'd think (and could be wrong) that most people who are heavily conservative secessionists see the federal government as something granted its powers by consent of the state; their patriotism therefore should be stronger for their state than for the nation as a whole, which they see as an outgrowth of their state agreeing to cede part of its state power to a national government to encourage inter-state cooperation and management. Ergo, the state is more important than the nation.

[GuybrushWilco]

Which is flawed, because no matter how much anyone tries to spin it, none of the states would survive on their own. It also would mean that people would need to get a passport in order to visit their families or friends across state lines! could you imagine that? Anyway, it's not going to happen. Every state who agree to join the union, agreed to cede some of its powers to the Federal government, as per the constitution. They also agree to follow the constitution while knowing full well that it is a living document that is subject to change, via amendments.

[Calax]

This is like a liberal circle jerk in here.

 

@Krezack - you're an idiot.

 

@Parker - Keyword there is "system". The federal system takes everyone's tax dollars and does all kinds of screwed up **** with it, meanwhile leaving infrastructure to rot. So no, I don't see the problem with getting money back that the federal government has wasted.

 

@Hurlshot - I think you deliberately misunderstand what I type.

 

Furthermore, the whole debt/federal dollars pay in/take out ratio also is affected by the type method each state uses with long-term/short-term debt. California owes a ****load more in debt than anyone, but they pay it back quicker. Sure, let's demonize everyone else because they don't have the upfront capital to do that.

I think, sir, the point that you fail to factor in, is that if you look at how the budgets of the states that are taking more money vs giving it, you'd find that the Federal dollars they're receiving are closing their budget gap. Meanwhile the states that are having the money taken are just widening their deficit that they need to close... somehow. Iowa has a small deficit because of just how much money is being poured into the corn industry. California is losing money because they're taxed, but have so few federal programs that benefit them (and a messed up initiative system that doesn't allow them to adjust how they spend their money... and their property taxes are odd) they end up paying out more, and having to work from their own pocket for things like education.

An actual intelligent post. Thanks for that and I agree with this.

It also partly invalidates your previous argument that Democratic states are mismanaged because of their OBVIOUS budget and deficit issues.