Unwinnable Main Questline?

[Theomen712]

What you've sadly ignored when creating this topic is the HUGE amount of games that have sad/depressing endings. Some that are unwinnable like when you fight Kangaxx in BG2, which is simply impossible to pull off. In other games, you often have the option to a sad ending by either go into a fight with a terrible tactics (like in IE games) or by simply not doing any damage to your enemies. And it's not like there's just one single place in these games where you have the option for the sad ending (but dying by the hand of Kangaxx is especially epic, and infuriating after the 57th try or so), it's avaiable pretty much all the time.

 

So I really think that having an ending like that is kinda boring, it's been done literally thousands of times. And that's why I find this topic redundant.

 

I've beaten Kangaxx. In his second form too, just to let you know that that particular example doesnt work.

[Durinax]

I would like to see an ending that you have to die in order to see it happen.

[Glabrezu]

they killed Sean Bean!

 

Who didn't?

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

Are people honestly taking a mcmanusaur thread seriously?

[Glabrezu]

Are people honestly taking a mcmanusaur thread seriously?

 

Indeed, I don't come around much (never seen the guy before), but the topic is just SCREAMING "Troll".

[Dream]

Bull**** artsy endings have been more of a cliche than happy endings ever were.

 

Damnit, why must I feed the trolls!?

[Malau]

I just have to comment on this thread with this:

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShootTheShaggyDog

[Sedrefilos]

I simply can't take this seriously.

Why not? Aren't you bored by the fact that every single game must have a predictably happy ending?

 

New Vegas had no happy ending. Just a "big" ending and many side-endings for each cahracter and faction you encountered based on yopur actions during the game. Some had good things coming for them, some not, some indifferent.

 

Therefore i believe New Vegas is the best crpg made till now in terms of narration and role-play.

 

I'd like to see something simiral in PE

Edited November 8, 2012 by Sedrefilos

[Moirnelithe]

I just hope P:E won't have the same vibe as Fallout:New Vegas. I bought that game during the Haloween sale on Steam because so many people here were gushing about it. But I'm 60 hours in and it's so damn depressing I quit playing it. Maybe it has to do with the setting, I don't know but I feel like no matter how many quests I solve things are and will stay crappy. Part and parcel of playing in a radioactive landfill I guess.

[TrashMan]

Shep and many others dying at the end of ME3 made PERFECT SENSE and I would prefer it a thousand times over some other crap.

 

ME3 ending was rushed and somewhat badly implemented, but the choices and the outcomes made perfect sense (even if the catalyst didn't).

You CAN'T beeat the reapers conventionally. All the armies oyu gathered ultimatively amounted to little. There was no surprise in this. It made sense.

 

Yet people whined because their gathered armeis couldn't destroy the reapers and tehy didn'tlive happily ever after with blue babies.

Frak those poeple. I hate them. HATE them.

 

I disliked ME3. I thout the begnign was jsut as bad as the ending. I think the entire ME series went down the crapper and it started going down with ME2 and the terminator baby reaper, and ME3 just made it worse with plot holes withing plot holes, and style over substance and the Cerberus effect.

 

But you know what I DIDN'T do? Throw a temper tantrum, threaten, signed petitions, demanded that the endign be remade.

Egoistical, whiny irritants.

Did I mention I hate poeple like that?

[kabaliero]

Ok, this thread is a final stroke on the "TROLL" sign for that special someone.

Too bad there's no "ignore all user messages" function.

 

 

If you don't like his post, then don't read his post. I honestly never seen the TC do anything wrong. But I guess having a opinion different from others counts as trolling.

 

what is this loler?

how do i even know if i like the post, if i don't get to read it?

judgin' by the posts of other dudes here, doesn't rly seem that my opinion differs from other's too much

 

and yeah, from now on i'll just ignore whatever threads he makes

[John Lemon]

A poll with only the option of agreeing isn't a poll. They have already said they intend to make a sequel, so regardless of how the game ends it clearly isn't "ending" the story.

 

This is a staple of the mcmanusaur. Let's all be happy that he's not the ruler of a nation. "You can vote for me, or me, or me! So many options I give to my people!"

 

Who do we vote for?

1. El Presidente!
   
2. El Presidente!
   

[Sacred_Path]

I can totally see the final cutscene where your party withdraws to the hills, to wage a guerilla war against overwhelming odds. Or to become hermits, whatever.

[AGX-17]

I simply can't take this seriously.

Why not? Aren't you bored by the fact that every single game must have a predictably happy ending?

 

Because your poll is loaded/rigged and regardless of the results or number of voters you will present it as "100% of Obsidian forum voters don't want a happy ending, Obsidian!"

 

Not every game has a predictable happy ending.

 

Multiple titles from my favorite Japanese game series, Super Robot Wars, have apocalyptically bad endings available. As in the actual universe is destroyed, all of your characters die in sorrow, all of the other characters in the universe die, etc. Game over, start a new game cycle (aka new game +) and try not to make the same decisions that led you to destroy the universe. And this is a Japanese game series. Admittedly, a thinking-outside-the-box series, but if someone in Japan can do it, anyone can.

 

But the point is, it's not mandatory. What's the point of player agency if there's only one mandatory ending? If someone wants to aim for "the bad ending," let them, If someone blunders into it, let them learn from their mistakes if they want a better outcome. But it's not really an RPG anymore when player agency no longer affects the outcome. That's why you can't be taken seriously, Obsidian has always made player agency a priority, giving you choices to make and making them feel significant and real. Where does that go with a rigged game where players can't win?

 

Hell, now that I think about it, on the Western side, Mass Effect 3, for all its flaws, grants the option of allowing the Reapers to go on their merry way genociding all sentient life. I'd hardly call that a predictable happy ending. Would you?

Edited November 8, 2012 by AGX-17

[Uomoz]

love this guy 10\10

[thidrums]

This poll serves no purpose.

 

Also, I only agree with a "sad" ending if it is one of multiple choises. No more ME3 please. For me a nice ending is similar to the BG games. Basically you choose to become a god or remain a human. Each choice has its cons, leave ultimate power behind or abandon a life of adventuring with your friends, but the pros are always nice. In summary, it's a "happy" ending that comes at the cost of something and makes you a little bit "sad".

[Keyrock]

I'm fine with all possible endings having some element of tragedy or uncertainty if the game is to be part of a series. Leaving off on a sad or uncertain note would add some good tension to the wait for Project Eternity 2: Electric Boogaloo.

 

 

I didn't vote since I'm not about to withdraw my backing

[Monte Carlo]

Mcmanasaur I'm with you but I want an ending involving pie. Pies never feature in CRPG endings. And they should. A big chunky steak pie with gravy. Maybe you win the quest with the End Boss, treat yourself to a pie *the choke to death on a piece of gristle* the game ends with all your hitherto loyal NPCs looting your corpse and having a battle royale over who finishes the pie.

 

Pie. Nomnomnom!

[Keyrock]

Mcmanasaur I'm with you but I want an ending involving pie. Pies never feature in CRPG endings. And they should. A big chunky steak pie with gravy. Maybe you win the quest with the End Boss, treat yourself to a pie *the choke to death on a piece of gristle* the game ends with all your hitherto loyal NPCs looting your corpse and having a battle royale over who finishes the pie.

 

Pie. Nomnomnom!

I'm still angry about the cake I didn't get to have in Portal.

 

In all seriousness, I'm all for endings with consequences where pretty much any which way you chose somebody has to make a sacrifice or get hurt (possibly killed). You can interpret whether that's a happy ending or not by how invested you are in the certain characters or factions involved.

[Amentep]

We should get an ending where only the main character can do something, but because of...poison gas, yeah that's the ticket... they die when they do the something only they can do to save the world.

 

This despite the fact every other party member is immune to the poison gas.

 

EDIT: I typed "save the line" - what the hell?

Edited November 8, 2012 by Amentep

[Sacred_Path]

I know this is a troll thread, but I want PE's writing to kick as many feelgood clichés in the groin (critically) as possible.

 

Like I said in another thread, if there are romances, I want less than ideal (physically and personality-wise) characters aggressively pursuing the main character; no idealized persons enganing in unrealistic and kitschy behaviour.

 

Do the same for storytelling; go loopy where necessary. This is such a unique opportunity, with no meddling publishers to mind.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Sacred_Path

[Amentep]

Feelbad clichés are just as bad as feelgood clichés, IMO.

[mcmanusaur]

This is a staple of the mcmanusaur. Let's all be happy that he's not the ruler of a nation. "You can vote for me, or me, or me! So many options I give to my people!"

I have always had a penchant for autocratic government...

 

A poll with only the option of agreeing isn't a poll. They have already said they intend to make a sequel, so regardless of how the game ends it clearly isn't "ending" the story.

It's not a poll, it's a petition. Duh.

 

I demand an ending that is actually the middle!

Oooh, now that would be cutting edge!

 

Because your poll is loaded/rigged and regardless of the results or number of voters you will present it as "100% of Obsidian forum voters don't want a happy ending, Obsidian!"

P-E=T-I-T-I-O-N. Now what does that spell? Now don't waste your vote; sign the petition!

 

This poll serves no purpose.

Okay, now I think you guys are trolling me.

Edited November 8, 2012 by mcmanusaur

[Sacred_Path]

Feelbad clichés are just as bad as feelgood clichés, IMO.

 

True, but personally I'm surprised what people can interpret to be a feelbad ending. That just seems to be such a jaw-clenching approach to playing. To me the only feelbad ending is one that completely negates all your previous actions (destruction of the world when you tried to save it). But there are so many possibilites inbetween.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Sacred_Path

[Althernai]

Shep and many others dying at the end of ME3 made PERFECT SENSE and I would prefer it a thousand times over some other crap.

 

ME3 ending was rushed and somewhat badly implemented, but the choices and the outcomes made perfect sense (even if the catalyst didn't).

You CAN'T beeat the reapers conventionally. All the armies oyu gathered ultimatively amounted to little. There was no surprise in this. It made sense.

 

Yet people whined because their gathered armeis couldn't destroy the reapers and tehy didn'tlive happily ever after with blue babies.

Frak those poeple. I hate them. HATE them.

Actually, ME3 is a perfect example of what not to do. A lot of people complained because Bioware did so many things wrong that one of them was bound to strike a nerve for a bunch of people. It's not the lack of a happy ending, it's the fact that what they did is atrocious storytelling.

 

First, don't change the tone of the game at the last minute. For example, Planescape: Torment had a tragic ending regardless of what the player did, but there was nothing wrong with that because the story was written as a tragedy from the very beginning ("You must die... while you still can."). The Baldur's Gate series had a happy ending and there was also nothing wrong with that because it was a heroic fantasy from the start. The ending of ME3 takes a heroic fantasy in space (i.e. a story where the hero routinely defies impossible odds) and changes it to... something rather difficult to classify, but more of a sad ending than a happy one. I am not worried about this in Project Eternity because Obsidian's writers are decent with keeping the tone consistent.

 

Second, if you are going to have choices in the game and claim that they matter, they need to make more of a difference than the color of the final cutscene. This one is more worrying because NWN2 was nearly as bad (the natural consequence of a "rocks fall, everyone dies" ending). More specifically, if there is a prolonged quest/minigame/whatever for gathering an army, that army better be relevant in the end rather than serving as the backdrop to a deus ex machina.

 

Third, the basic, primal reaction to the ending should not be "WTF?! ". Deus ex machina is not necessarily bad, but it should have a reasonable amount of explanation and foreshadowing and it must play by already established rules. Don't introduce something completely new that is capable of things which make no sense in the genre you are working in.