OMG

[timw03878]

I just found out about this game, and have been dying to finally play another isometric rpg

(as I absolutely hate the constant trend of everything either being fps, 3rd person, or 3d in general)

 

I'm still hoping another fallout game goes back to the classic style, I'm in love with it so much.

 

That being said...

 

I was totally let down by the regenerating health and lack of immersion involved in games like Dragon Age...

 

Raise Dead.. Healing spells, and having to keep your party members alive adds so much to the experience for me.

 

so I implore you.. Please.. for the love of all that is holy...

 

Do NOT put in regenerating health and party members getting up at the end of battles (right after they had a sword go thru their face)

 

 

I hate that crap, and it totally sucks you out of the universe your immersed in.

 

If its not in the game I'm more than willing to pay full price for this title.

 

If it is.. Then its cheap or not at all for me.

 

so please please please keep this game in the spirit of the games that came before it.

i.e. BG, IWD, PlaneScape Torment, etc.

[Tigranes]

][/b]

Common Mortality

Project Eternity's world is one with limited medicine and medical understanding. Unlike many fantasy settings, there is very little access to curative magic. Remedies for health problems often have only a palliative or placebo effect at best, owing their continued use more to folk beliefs and tradition than any basis in scientific methodology. Though soul-based magic has helped the great exploring cultures from suffering massive pandemics and has helped some individuals overcome illness over the long-term, there is no quick magical "cure" for disease or illness. Most people go through life and death in the ordinary way -- unless they put themselves in harm's way, that is.

 

Stamina and Health

In Project Eternity's combat, players need to be concerned with two elements of a character's vitality: Stamina and Health. The majority of damage a character takes is subtracted from his or her Stamina. Stamina represents how much general abuse a character can take before falling unconscious. Characters lose it quickly and regain it relatively rapidly, even without assistance. Soul-based abilities are able to help replenish or regenerate Stamina and are often used on the battlefield to turn the tide of combat. If a character hits 0 Stamina, he or she is knocked out. Intervention from another character can bring an unconscious character back into a fight.

For players, the Health of their party members is a tether that makes them consider how far they are willing to venture from a safe resting spot. Though Health is typically lost at a lower rate, when the PC or a companion hits 0 Health, he or she is maimed (in standard play) or killed (in Expert mode or as an option in standard play). Magic may help mitigate damage to Health and slow the tide, but once characters have died (in Expert mode), there is no known magic that can bring them back.

[timw03878]

Bargain bin it is then...

 

Oh well....

 

So much for this game.

 

Guess I'm doomed to reminisce on titles that don't have wolverine style party members.

Edited October 26, 2012 by timw03878

[Freshock]

Did you read the "health" part of the quote? Add some difficulty and those good ol' gaming memories will come back.

[timw03878]

Did you read the "health" part of the quote? Add some difficulty and those good ol' gaming memories will come back.

 

Yea sorry...

As soon as I saw the word "unconscious" I lost all interest.

 

If I wanted that crap I'd play ME or Dragon Age.

 

I saw baldur's gate in the video, of people who are making this and got overly excited.

I'll know better next time not to expect game mechanics that make sense from an immersion and realistic point of view.

 

Getting stabbed in the chest doesn't mean you lose "stamina"

it means you lose a thing called "blood"

 

All I can hope for is this game being modifiable to a point where I can play it without feeling like an x-man.

[jivex5k]

Honestly when I read that about stamina....I really don't like it.

I don't want anything to regenerate automatically either.

 

I hope they are able to pull it off.

[Althernai]

They discussed this in the updates during the Kickstarter. Getting stabbed in the chest does not mean you merely lose stamina -- you also lose health which is not easily regained. As the quote says, if a character runs out of health, that's the end of that character (unless you picked the option to only have them maimed; your choice). It sounds to me like they're giving you what you asked for in the original post.

[C2B]

Getting stabbed in the chest doesn't mean you lose "stamina"

it means you lose a thing called "blood"

 

But they are dying. Stamina abstracts exhaustion and health still means health. If your health is done you die. Sword in the chest, like you say.

 

And there's no real magical opportuinities to regenerate health. Potentially making this system pretty managing. Including the permadeath option, well.....

Edited October 26, 2012 by C2B

[PsychoBlonde]

I saw baldur's gate in the video, of people who are making this and got overly excited.

I'll know better next time not to expect game mechanics that make sense from an immersion and realistic point of view.

 

 

Yes, because it makes perfect sense for people to be able to fight just as well at 1 hp as they do at 100 hp. It makes perfect sense and is 100% realistic for them to go suddenly from "up and operating on all 6 cylinders" to "dead" because they took 1 more point of damage.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how bad people are at distinguishing between "I prefer this or that" and "this or that is realistic". Reality is not like ANY computer game. EVER.

[timw03878]

They discussed this in the updates during the Kickstarter. Getting stabbed in the chest does not mean you merely lose stamina -- you also lose health which is not easily regained. As the quote says, if a character runs out of health, that's the end of that character (unless you picked the option to only have them maimed; your choice). It sounds to me like they're giving you what you asked for in the original post.

 

I fight monster...

 

Lose stamina down to 0, and some health along the way..

 

My character passes out... (lol)

 

Monster switches target...

 

Monster gets killed...

 

I get up...

 

Re-Tar-Ded.

 

As opposed to..

 

I fight monster...

 

Lose health (stamina being independent mechanic for swinging of sword or casting of spells)

 

I lose stamina down to 0 (become very ineffective for fighting)

 

Continue fighting health goes to 0

 

I die.

 

No going to sleep on the battle field.

No having one party member survive encounter and everyone wakes from their nice little nap.

 

 

"sorry Sargent . I couldn't stop the enemy, I felt sleepy, and when I woke I had a cut on my chest and my buddies were trying to wake me"

Edited October 26, 2012 by timw03878

[Tigranes]

I'd suggest reading the whole quote, yes.

 

1/ Since getting your head chopped off should be a fairly irreversible activity, P:E says, resurrection will be extremely rare, if at all available.

2/ You have stamina and health, but you don't first lose stamina, then health: you lose both together. It's easy to heal stamina, but hard to heal health (which does not regenerate). you might start a fight with 100 stamina and 2 health because of this, and get yourself killed in one hit, never mind your regenerating stamina.

 

In short, there is no regenerating health, and on harder difficulties, it won't be "oh he's dead whatever he'll get up afterwards" - since they can easily be attacked while unconscious and permanently killed, from which there is no Raise Dead.

 

It depends on how it's balanced, but it can easily end up being more 'hardcore' or 'realistic' than the 'classic style'.

[timw03878]

I'd suggest reading the whole quote, yes.

 

1/ Since getting your head chopped off should be a fairly irreversible activity, P:E says, resurrection will be extremely rare, if at all available.

2/ You have stamina and health, but you don't first lose stamina, then health: you lose both together. It's easy to heal stamina, but hard to heal health (which does not regenerate). you might start a fight with 100 stamina and 2 health because of this, and get yourself killed in one hit, never mind your regenerating stamina.

 

In short, there is no regenerating health, and on harder difficulties, it won't be "oh he's dead whatever he'll get up afterwards" - since they can easily be attacked while unconscious and permanently killed, from which there is no Raise Dead.

 

It depends on how it's balanced, but it can easily end up being more 'hardcore' or 'realistic' than the 'classic style'.

 

From the way you described it I certainly hope your right.

 

If at anytime I ever read a review that says.. "I survived and my other party members got up after the fight was over", then I'm not buying it.

 

that is not baldur's gate, planescape, or IWD.

That's dumbed down nonsense.

[Churchwarden]

I'd suggest reading the whole quote, yes.

 

1/ Since getting your head chopped off should be a fairly irreversible activity, P:E says, resurrection will be extremely rare, if at all available.

2/ You have stamina and health, but you don't first lose stamina, then health: you lose both together. It's easy to heal stamina, but hard to heal health (which does not regenerate). you might start a fight with 100 stamina and 2 health because of this, and get yourself killed in one hit, never mind your regenerating stamina.

 

In short, there is no regenerating health, and on harder difficulties, it won't be "oh he's dead whatever he'll get up afterwards" - since they can easily be attacked while unconscious and permanently killed, from which there is no Raise Dead.

 

It depends on how it's balanced, but it can easily end up being more 'hardcore' or 'realistic' than the 'classic style'.

 

From the way you described it I certainly hope your right.

 

If at anytime I ever read a review that says.. "I survived and my other party members got up after the fight was over", then I'm not buying it.

 

that is not baldur's gate, planescape, or IWD.

That's dumbed down nonsense.

 

What if a party member went unconscious, but your opponent didn't have time to deliver a killing blow because he was immediately attacked by another of your party members? Are you saying nobody should ever fall in combat unless they are dead?

[nikolokolus]

Play on expert mode. Death is real an there's no raise dead.

[Tigranes]

Well that's up to you whether it ends up qualifying as worth buying or not for you. That isn't my problem. I'm saying it's neither a standard HP system, nor is it a regenerating HP / everyone-gets-up crap.

 

We have yet to hear exactly how the things will work. What we do know is that an enemy attack doesn't just deal 50 damage and stamina absorbs it. It might deal 30 stamina and 20 health damage. And health will be much harder to heal than in games like BG, because you won't have 8 heal spells a day. You will for stamina, but not for health. So when your health is low, you can die even if you have high stamina. And then, again unlike in BG, Raise dead doesn't cost a pittance of 200 gold, it's either rare or impossible. If your guy goes to 0 stamina and falls over, you don't say, "who cares", you need to watch out that enemies don't hit them in the face while they're unconscious and kill them permanently.

 

So sure, you can have battles where you survive and your party members get up. But you'll have to have done a good job of making sure they didn't get coup-de-grace'd. And the health damage they suffered in that battle will be difficult to recuperate. So in some ways it's less hardcore, in some ways it's more. Remains to be seen how exactly it will work.

 

(Edit: I'm assuming Expert mode is on. Why wouldn't it be on, if you're looking for 'no nonsense'?)

[ArcaneBoozery]

Did Obsidian mention why they went with the Stamina/Health system instead of the typical health only approach? If so, anyone have a link? I don't recall seeing their reasoning for it.

 

Reality is not like ANY computer game. EVER.

 

Two words. Dwarf Fortress. Sorry, couldn't help myself...

[timw03878]

I'm saying a company should not be introducing modern life death mechanics into a game that is clearly marketed to old school gamers using brands that were the pinnicle of the rpg genre...

 

What it effectively does is pull on the nostalgia strings of gamers like me who long for a past time where things were a certain way, and then muck it up with modern stuff that has nothing to do with the past.

 

It bugs me to no end.

 

You wanna remake a classic and bring back that old school feel?

Don't insert crap that reminds us of modern day gaming...

 

It would be no different than if they made another Megaman Game, but instead decided to stick in a quick save option.

It dilutes the experience we remember and forces us into the present while trying to relive the past.

[timw03878]

A perfect example would be George Lucas re-releasing star wars, but getting all the extra special effects that weren't what you remember as a kid.

 

re-release a classic and make it as close to what people loved and remembered from years gone by...

 

I'm a purist on this kind of stuff

[Tigranes]

I'd agree if they introduced regenerating health and KO-instead-of-death. But they haven't, it's a system that has similarities with both older (e.g. Darklands) and newer games, but with no exact precedent.

 

So it's not a 'modern feature', it's a unique feature. More information will show what kind of user experience it will generate. If the dangers like KO characters getting killed, permadeath, health attrition is real, then it will feel old school. If they screw up the balance and stamina is too big, etc., it will feel modern. My interest, personally, is in how it will actually work. And it sure sounds like it won't play like Mass Effect or whatever.

 

Unless by 'purist' you mean 'everything must be the same', in which case, I plain disagree, and I still play BG every few months. BG2 wasn't the same as BG1, IWD wasn't the same as PST.

[Ieo]

Did Obsidian mention why they went with the Stamina/Health system instead of the typical health only approach? If so, anyone have a link? I don't recall seeing their reasoning for it.

 

I don't remember an explicit dev quote, but I believe it has to do with the magic cooldown mechanics of holistic class and combat mechanics design. Remember the casting cd mechanics? I won't review because the information is all over the place and people can just do a search--though people like the OP who refuse to actually read anything, yeah, I have only pity for you and no patience for your immature hysteria.

 

Anyway, back to the point. Two words: resource management. Resource management is critical in tactical gameplay of this nature. So basically rather than force the rest-resource management only on caster classes, Obsidian combined a few proposed mechanics to apply that high-level resource management to all classes. In other words, it's a good move in theory, just needs specific numerical tweaking and whatnot.

[Tale]

Getting stabbed in the chest doesn't mean you lose "stamina"

it means you lose a thing called "blood"

Is this the classic hit points = blood argument?

 

Hit points didn't translate directly to damage in D&D, either. Getting stabbed in the chest doesn't make you closer to dying, it makes you actually dead or so close you won't be fighting back. If the HP mechanic was meant to represent how many stabs you can take before dying, most characters would have 1-2 HP.

 

Since its inception, it's meant a combination of things such as fatigue and luck. Don't believe me? AD&D DMG page 82.

[Churchwarden]

I agree that making a game that is true to original IE games is important for the backers who have jumped in two-feet first to see this game made, but I don't think the issue of "hardcoreness" is determined by HP vs. HP + stamina. It's not going to be inherently easier if it uses this different mechanic, but it could definitely lose some of the viscous nostalgia that is oozing from the project right now if it meanders too far from what everyone remembers.

[tajerio]

The point of the game is not to repeat what was done before, but to build on the things that were done well to produce a new experience evocative in part of past games. The market for straight nostalgia of that kind isn't $4.1 million and 79,000 backers strong.

[Churchwarden]

I agree about "straight nostalgia" because nostalgia isn't what it used to be

 

But, for example, we are all looking forward to the isometric view and the beautifully painted landscapes, right? Nostalgia has definitely helped to fuel the excitement with backing this game. I doubt most people are looking for a strict repeat mechanically, but we all hope that it can improve on what was done before while still reminding us of the good ol' days.

[nikolokolus]

FYI. The health/stamina thing is straight out of Darklands. Old skool enough for ya?