SoshiGEE Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Protip: Baldur's Gate 2, one of the main inspirations for this game and quite possibly the best game ever made, also had romances, and they were very interesting. Was that a 'next-gen Bioware thing' too?
Monte Carlo Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Bg2 had four very unobtrusive, text-based romance sub-plots. Completely avoidable. Next-Gen Bioware: * Fan-service emo romances * Overt sexualisation * Deus Ex Machina plotting * Over-blown cutscenes * Console friendly * MMO feel / silly manga-weapons and armour * Squee-laden fan base * General feeling of nausea. 1
SoshiGEE Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 No one's saying we want a Bioware romance, we're just saying we want romances period. Of course a well written and well thought out romance is much preferable to the superficial '4 lines of dialogue every 2 hours' romances we got in Mass Effect for example. I think that, now that Obsidian is not bound by VO budget, they could (and should) finally deliver a deep and interesting romance story again.
Monte Carlo Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Sure, just thought a bit of a 101 as to where folks were coming from on the topic might be helpful, except that Brownypoints outlines content that seems to me very "Bioware Romance." Edited October 28, 2012 by Monte Carlo
evdk Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Protip: Baldur's Gate 2, one of the main inspirations for this game and quite possibly the best game ever made, also had romances, and they were very interesting. Was that a 'next-gen Bioware thing' too? You know this written next to your avatar made me LOL uncontrollably. Say no to popamole!
brownypoints Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Well I think we are safe from overblown cut scenes (budget), console friendliness (pc exclusive ), deus ex machina, overt sexualisation and silly manga weapons (game maker's pedigree) without those surely the nausea has gone down. I guess I just want love to be alongside revenge,greed,justice,anger and a burning desire to right all of the world's wrongs (or whatever PE writers decide) to be a driver of the companion character arcs and thus the game as a whole. Edited October 28, 2012 by brownypoints 1
centurionofprix Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Protip: Baldur's Gate 2... quite possibly the best game ever made, You're tripping! also had romances, and they were very interesting. Was that a 'next-gen Bioware thing' too? In a way, yes; it showed the way for their later experiments. In any case, the implementation was different from the sort of thing people seem to talk about now. It was at least vaguely connected to the story and seemed to flow from the situations into which the characters were thrown, rather than existing for the sake of pandering to some sort of soap opera/dating sim instinct with an infuriating veil of respectability thrown over it by the dev/press/gamer circle church, which is what it collapsed into after BG2. No one's saying we want a Bioware romance, we're just saying we want romances period. Of course a well written and well thought out romance is much preferable to the superficial '4 lines of dialogue every 2 hours' romances we got in Mass Effect for example. I think that, now that Obsidian is not bound by VO budget, they could (and should) finally deliver a deep and interesting romance story again. Planescape did it tastefully and to the greatest effect wth probably even less than that, again, by developing it in connection to the story rather than with dating sim sensibilities (that many seem to be asking for in PE). Edited October 28, 2012 by centurionofprix
l3loodangel Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Protip: Baldur's Gate 2... quite possibly the best game ever made, How was it better than PST, FO or Arcanum? It had no meaningful C&C, the world did not react to your accomplishments and you could not alter the story. I know it had shinny GFX, but please. 1 https://www.youtube....=1&feature=plcp - SWTOR review Mass effect 3 and Video game art. Escape goat Our beloved Anita Sarkeesian
Jaesun Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Is has the best story of all the IE games (and the best villain EVER). Edited October 28, 2012 by Jaesun Some of my Youtube Classic Roland MT-32 Video Game Music videos | My Music | My Photography
nikolokolus Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest.
Monte Carlo Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest. You... you've... changed. *sobs*
kenup Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Oh, see what you did now nikolokolus! Poor MC. Edited October 28, 2012 by kenup
Lurky Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) The topic seems to have become about romances again, so I'll just try to wrap the offtopicness quickly. What potential? What possible value is there is such a system? I don't see why an alignment system of that sort would be at all valuable, especially given the limitations it would necessarily place on roleplaying. Well, D&D uses the alignment system for several things. Paladins, for example. Surprisingly, some people actually like what they add, precisely for roleplaying reasons. As for more potential, think outside the box. Mind readers, lie detectors, magical entities that can pass judgement on your true intentions, familiars or spirits that represent inner desires, things like that require knowing true intentions and characterization of the PC. All of these can be devices used in a story. You might not like them, but I think they can be interesting to deal with. I don't play these games for the story. I play these games to roleplay. If I can't roleplay, I don't want to play them. Every one of my design preferences is selected to advance roleplaying, from dialogue systems to UI design to visual effects. And this is our major source of disagreement. You play primarily for the roleplaying, not so much for the story. I play for both. I am willing to accept some interferences in my roleplaying if it means participation in a better world and story (not too many, though), but you aren't. Of course we aren't going to agree if we have such different preferences. What I do is try to roleplay within the constraints of the system, once I know them. I know it's imperfect, I know some options will be missing for me, but I accept it as a limitation of the medium - after all, videogame characters and videogame worlds are always going to be limited to the content the developers have been able to create for them - and if the constraints are broad enough I'll have a good degree of freedom anyway. When I want total freedom in roleplaying over everything else, I seek real people, who aren't affected by these constraints. Sure, real people can be annoying, but that's the price to pay if you want lifelike interactions (or sets of actions and reactions if you prefer it that way, but that's longer to type). Alternatively, you can make mods for the games, and add the options that you feel are lacking. You'll get the best of both worlds if you do that, actually. As for motivations, again, we have different stances. You insist and insist that they are unknowable, almost as if they should always remain that way. I know that they can't be fully knowable, but I like knowing things, and I like if that unknown can be subverted. Knowing things also lets you build approximations that help you deal with reality, and with people. Even if you don't agree with this approach and claim that it's for crazy people (in bolded letters, at that) because having a degree totally gives you the right to judge people, these approximations can be pretty damn useful in real life. They're valuable, no matter what you say. And why did I go on with this topic for so long? Because I like knowing things. I didn't really understand your approach before, but I understand it much better now. So, even if I personally think you're still kind of pretentious, thank you for engaging with me Regarding romances, I have a question for those who are most interested to see them. How would you integrate them with the rest of the game? I don't mean "I want to see this and that". I mean that, according to what we know until now, companions can be completely optional, and Avellone wants to explore other types of relationships that aren't love. Considering how much attention romances drain, how would you integrate everything together so that no content is overshadowed? Just curious. Edited October 28, 2012 by Lurky
BasaltineBadger Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Protip: Baldur's Gate 2... quite possibly the best game ever made, How was it better than PST, FO or Arcanum? It had no meaningful C&C, the world did not react to your accomplishments and you could not alter the story. I know it had shinny GFX, but please. It had combat that was actually challenging and fun to play, and good encounter design. It's not a visual novel, c&c is a nice addition not a requirement for game to be good. Just like romances by the way.
evdk Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 c&c is a nice addition not a requirement for game to be good. The emoticon selection here is not adequate to express how I feel. But know that I am not amused. 1 Say no to popamole!
BasaltineBadger Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 c&c is a nice addition not a requirement for game to be good. The emoticon selection here is not adequate to express how I feel. But know that I am not amused. It's not like BG 1 & 2 were bad games just because you didn't get a slideshow at the end.
evdk Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 But they were IMHO worse games and not specifically because of the slideshow (does PS:T even have one?). CnC is the most important part of story driven RPGs. Unless you are mundblut. 2 Say no to popamole!
BasaltineBadger Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 But they were IMHO worse games and not specifically because of the slideshow (does PS:T even have one?). CnC is the most important part of story driven RPGs. Unless you are mundblut. That's only your opinion. I wouldn't mind a game with good combat and good but lineal story.
evdk Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 I actually wouldn't either, IWD was fun. It's just would not really be a storyfag RPG. Say no to popamole!
jarpie Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Given Obsidian's previous games PE is bound to have quite a bit of reactivity and C&C.
nikolokolus Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest. You... you've... changed. *sobs* I'm thinking Dionarra from Torment, anything else and I say burn it with fire.
evdk Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest. You... you've... changed. *sobs* I'm thinking Dionarra from Torment, anything else and I say burn it with fire. But she romanced the other guy... 1 Say no to popamole!
kenup Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest. You... you've... changed. *sobs* I'm thinking Dionarra from Torment, anything else and I say burn it with fire. But she romanced the other guy... But he didn't really like the romance... 1
nikolokolus Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 If a love interest is a central part of the narrative then I'm fine with it, it's the romance-as-mini-game that I detest. You... you've... changed. *sobs* I'm thinking Dionarra from Torment, anything else and I say burn it with fire. But she romanced the other guy... Exactly my point
nikolokolus Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Who said things have to go the player's way?
Recommended Posts