[Merged] Women, Feminism, etc. in PE

[Conconhead]

There's nothing wrong with wanting the option to build yourself a party full of physically attractive characters. However I think the majority of the posters want it as an OPTION and not to have gorgeous Muscles-mchotty or Boobarellas in chainmail bikinis as our only choices. Sexism is fine if it's your option and it isn't affecting anyone else. If you're imposing it by making it your only option such as "**** or GTFO" then it's wrong. The trend here seems towards realistic fantasy, which is fine by me.

[Uomoz]

I like how they handled women in Torment:

 

[Takamori]

Well sorry for that then, I'm kinda getting grumpy with the "romance and feminism" subject being over discussed and people not giving relevance to stuff like the game itself.

 

Romance and feminism are two very different topics. It's hardly only women who are asking for "romances" in games. Feminism is a sociopolitical construct relevant to in-game politics only if Obsidian deems it so; realism is a different topic altogether as well.

Hmm didn't mention the desire of women for both subjects,neither referred to a sex in my post.

But just making this clear, keep going on thread.

[NerdBoner]

There's nothing wrong with wanting the option to build yourself a party full of physically attractive characters. However I think the majority of the posters want it as an OPTION and not to have gorgeous Muscles-mchotty or Boobarellas in chainmail bikinis as our only choices. Sexism is fine if it's your option and it isn't affecting anyone else. If you're imposing it by making it your only option such as "**** or GTFO" then it's wrong. The trend here seems towards realistic fantasy, which is fine by me.

the problem is that I think the boards are being flooded with an excessive amount of BioDrones who think this game is going to be some kind of 3D wet dream were they can customize their character endlessly...

 

 

wake up call people! this is an isometric top-down camera view with tiny avatars that represent your characters. The likely-hood that HUGE T1TS or FATTY McFATTY PANTS "realistic" characters will be represented in game is HIGHLY unlikely.

 

again, these dumbasses need to go back to their Dragon Ages and Skyrims for that crap.

Edited October 18, 2012 by NerdBoner

[Takamori]

There's nothing wrong with wanting the option to build yourself a party full of physically attractive characters. However I think the majority of the posters want it as an OPTION and not to have gorgeous Muscles-mchotty or Boobarellas in chainmail bikinis as our only choices. Sexism is fine if it's your option and it isn't affecting anyone else. If you're imposing it by making it your only option such as "**** or GTFO" then it's wrong. The trend here seems towards realistic fantasy, which is fine by me.

the problem is that I think the boards are being flooded with an excessive amount of BioDrones who think this game is going to be some kind of 3D wet dream were they can customize their character endlessly...

 

 

wake up call people! this is an isometric top-down camera view with tiny avatars that represent your characters. The likely-hood that HUGE T1TS or FATTY McFATTY PANTS "realistic" characters will be represented in game is HIGHLY unlikely.

 

again, these dumbasses need to go back to their Dragon Ages and Skyrims for that crap.

 

Calm down, we share some opinions in the matter, but you need to be more political

Just a friendly advice.

[Vaesark]

There's nothing wrong with wanting the option to build yourself a party full of physically attractive characters. However I think the majority of the posters want it as an OPTION and not to have gorgeous Muscles-mchotty or Boobarellas in chainmail bikinis as our only choices. Sexism is fine if it's your option and it isn't affecting anyone else. If you're imposing it by making it your only option such as "**** or GTFO" then it's wrong. The trend here seems towards realistic fantasy, which is fine by me.

 

5 characters revealed so far and the one that shows more skin is... Forton!

 

But seriously, do you think that there is even the tiniest possibility that obsidian will make something like a chainmail bikini? after they changed the infamous "boobplate"? It seems to me that it is extremely, extremely unlikely.

[Ieo]

Well sorry for that then, I'm kinda getting grumpy with the "romance and feminism" subject being over discussed and people not giving relevance to stuff like the game itself.

 

Romance and feminism are two very different topics. It's hardly only women who are asking for "romances" in games. Feminism is a sociopolitical construct relevant to in-game politics only if Obsidian deems it so; realism is a different topic altogether as well.

Hmm didn't mention the desire of women for both subjects,neither referred to a sex in my post.

But just making this clear, keep going on thread.

 

? I didn't mention anything about sex in my post either. Just saying that romance and feminism isn't one subject together, like you said in your first post there.

 

Well, carry on. These threads aren't exactly productive anymore since the very first ones a month ago that got Sawyer to pipe up that he supports realistic but stylish gear for women and all that.

[Takamori]

Well sorry for that then, I'm kinda getting grumpy with the "romance and feminism" subject being over discussed and people not giving relevance to stuff like the game itself.

 

Romance and feminism are two very different topics. It's hardly only women who are asking for "romances" in games. Feminism is a sociopolitical construct relevant to in-game politics only if Obsidian deems it so; realism is a different topic altogether as well.

Hmm didn't mention the desire of women for both subjects,neither referred to a sex in my post.

But just making this clear, keep going on thread.

 

? I didn't mention anything about sex in my post either. Just saying that romance and feminism isn't one subject together, like you said in your first post there.

 

Well, carry on. These threads aren't exactly productive anymore since the very first ones a month ago that got Sawyer to pipe up that he supports realistic but stylish gear for women and all that.

well even with misunderstanding you got my point, Sawyer pretty much killed the subject and that's we shouldn't worry about it anymore.

[Conconhead]

But seriously, do you think that there is even the tiniest possibility that obsidian will make something like a chainmail bikini? after they changed the infamous "boobplate"? It seems to me that it is extremely, extremely unlikely.

 

Well, if you use the Torment image linked above... Heh.

 

No, I don't think they will. I complimented them on the realistic female armor designs over on K.S. after the boobplate change and Feargus seemed pleased that it was well received and said he'd let Josh know it was being noticed.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

PS:T always struck me as weird in that regard. It was one of the first Infinity games that used 3d renders rather than illustrations for character portraits. I never really envisioned Annah as having a massive bust.

[Pshaw]

I understand that 'sex sells' and all that so while I'm in agreement with this topic I can understand why we see so many skimpy armor designs on female characters and they all have super model looks. I would also point out that it's not strictly limited to females. There aren't a ton of ugly dudes walking around in video games either.

 

Really I will be content if they do 2 things. First no female has a waste skinnier than her head or boobs larger than it. Second they design plate armor to look substantial and not form fitting, or if it must be form fitting for the love of god no steel bikinis. If they want to do skimpy / form fitting leather and cloth armor I'll suspend my disbelief for that.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone in this but I couldn't stand what they did to the elves in DA2. What's worse is I'm fairly sure on some level it was a choice based off of the thought that skinny is inherently sexy. It's not and was taken too far in DA2 to the point where all elves were hard to look at. Yes I was happy they were more visually distinct but I think that probably could have been done without making them a bag of bones. So please try go with a more average look for your character models, both male and female.

 

Also I will say I like what they did with Shepard in the ME series. Namely out on a mission you were your ass kickin' gear but on the Normandy you were in your casual clothes. I think the same should hold true for more games and include your companions. Let them get covered in absurd bulky armor during the adventure but back at camp, your stronghold, or whatever the case may be give them a default casual appearance. I think it's a great way have letting the designers design an overall look for a character while not compromising their ability to look and feel battle ready when changing their gear.

 

Anyway I'm rambling now but that's my thoughts on character models being over sexual and so on.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Pshaw

[Ieo]

PS:T always struck me as weird in that regard. It was one of the first Infinity games that used 3d renders rather than illustrations for character portraits. I never really envisioned Annah as having a massive bust.

 

The one thing I liked about PS:T's 3D portraits was how they looked ill and stuff as party members got hurt. Or entered disguise, like the zombie at the beginning.

[Ruka]

They should make the first or second city female dominated

[Bloody Hypocrite]

It was a good visual cue when your party was getting battered. The iso view never looked that ridiculous, but I remember the sheer absurdity of the high town whores....

[Bloody Hypocrite]

2 1/2 heads per breast.

[HeedlessHorseman]

I like how this site has emoticons that sum up this thread wonderfully:

 

 

 

I think that instead of misogyny in this game, there should be chauvinism. (Yes, I do feel like being pedantic.)

[Takamori]

They should make the first or second city female dominated

Could have a city, tribe, village or w/e with that concept, I like that, that would be peculiar in my opinion and something new to face in a rpg(And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards).

I approve this idea

[Furiku]

Maybe PE will become an example for other games in this regard. One can only hope.

 

I really hope effing not, was Planescape considered one of the worst games ever?

Wasn't its plot amazing, isn't it being lauded everywhere as Black Isles/"Obsidians" best game, possibly the best storytelling in a CRPG whatsoever and doesn't even the OP even have a character portrait stemming from there as an avatar?

 

Quoting from that games vision document:

“I don‟t wear pants! Now, that’s entertainment.”

“babes,” as in, “TRUCKLOADS OF.”

Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. These babes will be present without nipple-age and will all regrettably behave within the TSR Code of Ethics.

and more babes

Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes.

 

How the hell does "feminism" or breast size come in to play as to how well written some characters are (or on a larger scale a game) or how good their characterization is, is it somehow "in" now to discriminate against women with big breasts?

 

And am I the only one to find it absolutely hilarious that people came out in droves to complain about how "unrealistic" this is, despite the armor being perfectly fine in the function it is supposed to accomplish:

 

But nobody seems to be complaining about a geriartric lacking any sort of body armor and apparently only fighting with his fists being "unrealistic" at all?

 

Were all the complaints about "realism" even only a ruse to push through feminist agenda yet again, mayhaps and why should that now be relevant to game design?

Edited October 18, 2012 by Furiku

[Vaesark]

They should make the first or second city female dominated

Could have a city, tribe, village or w/e with that concept, I like that, that would be peculiar in my opinion and something new to face in a rpg(And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards).

I approve this idea

 

And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards

 

And why not? patriarchal societies are always (like 100% of the time) portrayed as evil and oppressive, Why would have to be a matriarchy different?

 

unless you want to imply men=bad woman=good

[Ruka]

Maybe PE will become an example for other games in this regard. One can only hope.

 

 

But nobody seems to be complaining about a geriartric lacking any sort of body armor and apparently only fighting with his fists being "unrealistic" at all?

 

Were all the complaints about "realism" even only a ruse to push through feminist agenda yet again, mayhaps and why should that now be relevant to game design?

 

That's because Monks don't need no armor

[Vaesark]

But nobody seems to be complaining about a geriartric lacking any sort of body armor and apparently only fighting with his fists being "unrealistic" at all?

 

Were all the complaints about "realism" even only a ruse to push through feminist agenda yet again, mayhaps and why should that now be relevant to game design?

 

And you can bet that he will beat the crap out of a soldier with full plate armor

 

lol *realism*

[Vaesark]

They should make the first or second city female dominated

Could have a city, tribe, village or w/e with that concept, I like that, that would be peculiar in my opinion and something new to face in a rpg(And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards).

I approve this idea

 

And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards

 

And why not? patriarchal societies are always (like 100% of the time) portrayed as evil and oppressive, Why would have to be a matriarchy different?

 

unless you want to imply men=bad woman=good

 

I'm not sure you are the most qualified person to make that distinction...

 

2 things, 1- I'm sure that links to pornography are against the forum rules and 2, what is your point exactly? I make 3D porn and therefore I'm not qualified to make arguments? o_O

 

Anyway, delete the link ASAP

[Bloody Hypocrite]

The Drow society has always been considered evil and abhorrent. Wasn't it Buck Rodgers that proposed the preposterous idea of a matriarchy in the 70's? Only about 40 years ago.

[Tauron]

This is easy. Devs just add different body proportions. Maybe even slider, so we can slide proportions.

[Phellan]

1.) An average distribution of the population in regards to beauty and body-size and yes, that should go for companions as well

 

There is no reason to expect that the physique of the average highly trained adventurer/warrior should be the same as the physique of the average American civilian.

Yes, this is a good point. If this is analogous to 16th century, being fat should be very rare, and mostly exclusive to royalty and aristocracy. Having a fat diplomat companion with no combat skills but great charisma and intelligence would be acceptable.

 

Bringing this up should bring an important note - being heavy set / fat in the era this game will be set is actually seen as being "attractive". It should not be outside the realm of possibility that characters who are referred to in game as being beautiful or attractive are not necessarily what 20th century post-modernist culture will find beautiful and attractive. Indeed, given the likelihood of starvation, plagues, etc it should be expected that characters who fit today's archetypes of beauty likely won't be such in the game world. And I would hope OE makes that a point.

 

Additionally having cultures or societies in game that have a variety of views and beliefs about men and women that differ drastically from 20th Cent. Western norms would just add to the fantasy setting and allow for a greater array of believability and social clashes I bet. It would be extremely interesting to see how Souls and Gender are done - since access to past lives is possible it should be expected that a soul has experienced life as both a man and a woman previously which would bring all sorts of questions to bear - remembering a life where as one gender you were seen as a lesser could no doubt influence how you live your next life (assuming you remember previous lives!).