[Merged] Women, Feminism, etc. in PE

[DocDoomII]

I'm not sure you are the most qualified person to make that distinction...

 

2 things, 1- I'm sure that links to pornography are against the forum rules and 2, what is your point exactly? I make 3D porn and therefore I'm not qualified to make arguments? o_O

 

Anyway, delete the link ASAP

Maybe he wanted to showoff his Mad Google Skillz

Edited October 18, 2012 by DocDoomII

[Uomoz]

Reported pornography link.

 

OT: I'd love to see the reactions to female monks naked from the waist up.

[Ieo]

The Drow society has always been considered evil and abhorrent. Wasn't it Buck Rodgers that proposed the preposterous idea of a matriarchy in the 70's? Only about 40 years ago.

 

Actually much earlier. First fiction attempt I know of was in the 1800s, but I don't remember the exact details despite having written a paper on it... Not to mention anthropological notes about certain societies now extinct through war.

 

Regardless, I hated the Drow paradigm for being so intellectually cheap about it.

 

But Ziets--now, I haven't played MotB because I don't have NWN2 and hated NWN1, but Rashemen as a magocratic gynarchy sounds like an interesting subversion/twist on the idea without being intellectually cheap (plain mirror image, etc.).

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Uomoz, If she's as old as Fenton, I'd love to see it.

[Ruka]

Dang, I forgot in BG2 that female Drow's ruled in the Underdark

[DocDoomII]

Uomoz, If she's as old as Fenton, I'd love to see it.

What has been imagined, cannot be unimagined.

Damn you!

[Takamori]

They should make the first or second city female dominated

Could have a city, tribe, village or w/e with that concept, I like that, that would be peculiar in my opinion and something new to face in a rpg(And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards).

I approve this idea

 

And no snoo snoo by death jokes you bloody bastards

 

And why not? patriarchal societies are always (like 100% of the time) portrayed as evil and oppressive, Why would have to be a matriarchy different?

 

unless you want to imply men=bad woman=good

 

It was a joke for futurama fans, don't take too seriously what I said.

Well I still like the concept though.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Ieo,

I just meant in popular culture.

[Uomoz]

Ahahahahah. What a sight it would be indeed.

[ReyVagabond]

We all know once you enter the barrier of Dragon Ball, weapons armors and stuff like that dont work!

Once a warrior can destroy human skulls with the power of his fist ala Hokuto no Ken having an amor is for Pussies! (with Russian accent, becuase its a common joke).

[Kai]

When it comes to men and women being treated differently, I want variety on that subject. Having some civilisations where gender equality is the norm, some where women are treated like second class citizens, some where the men are treated that way and the rest somewhere in between. As it seems that P:E won't be all "this is good and that is evil", offering different ways to handle feminism, with various reactions depending on whom you're interacting with and your PCs mental skillset, is pretty much what I want.

 

As for objectifying women in games which is depressingly usual, I don't think P:E should do a complete 180 turn and have close to zero beautiful/hot women in the game. Again, that is not variety, which I want. Neither do I think that nearly all women should be portrayed as hot. The looks and clothing should be depending on the NPC and its personality. And treat the males the same way. And why not have some characters without gender, would love to see how they are treated within the game and how those characters would react on women and men.

 

I guess that's my 2c, I really dislike the more radical forms of feminism, just as I really dislike men who only view women as T&A without a brain, gimme some variety.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

We aren't gonna solve the gender gap in one game. What can be shown is the great diversity of different cultures. History and anthropology ftw

[ravenshrike]

How the hell does "feminism" or breast size come in to play as to how well written some characters are (or on a larger scale a game) or how good their characterization is, is it somehow "in" now to discriminate against women with big breasts?

 

And am I the only one to find it absolutely hilarious that people came out in droves to complain about how "unrealistic" this is, despite the armor being perfectly fine in the function it is supposed to accomplish:

Obsidian has stated that they are trying to keep the abilities of common objects like firearms relatively realistic. The only way to get a breastplate like that with period technologies would be to weld the upper and lower half together, creating a perfect weak point of a sword to slid in. This would go under the category of bad.

[NOK222]

Maybe PE will become an example for other games in this regard. One can only hope.

 

I really hope effing not, was Planescape considered one of the worst games ever?

Wasn't its plot amazing, isn't it being lauded everywhere as Black Isles/"Obsidians" best game, possibly the best storytelling in a CRPG whatsoever and doesn't even the OP even have a character portrait stemming from there as an avatar?

 

Quoting from that games vision document:

“I don‟t wear pants! Now, that’s entertainment.”

“babes,” as in, “TRUCKLOADS OF.”

Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. These babes will be present without nipple-age and will all regrettably behave within the TSR Code of Ethics.

and more babes

Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes.

 

How the hell does "feminism" or breast size come in to play as to how well written some characters are (or on a larger scale a game) or how good their characterization is, is it somehow "in" now to discriminate against women with big breasts?

 

And am I the only one to find it absolutely hilarious that people came out in droves to complain about how "unrealistic" this is, despite the armor being perfectly fine in the function it is supposed to accomplish:

 

But nobody seems to be complaining about a geriartric lacking any sort of body armor and apparently only fighting with his fists being "unrealistic" at all?

 

Were all the complaints about "realism" even only a ruse to push through feminist agenda yet again, mayhaps and why should that now be relevant to game design?

 

Lol feminist agenda

 

Hey, you made a comprehensive post here just to...what? Boob armor?

[Uomoz]

I still want sexy leather boob armor though.

[NOK222]

I still want sexy leather boob armor though.

 

If it fits the character and not too over the top, sure. Same with mage robes.

[Calmar]

 

Yes, and this is a definitive improvement over this. Sagani does not look to standartised as well Still, another companion who fits clichees less will also be included...

 

 

This is so awesome. I'm so glad they chose to give her a reasonable breastplate instead of boob plate. Unless one has exceptionally large breasts, a breastplate is spacious enough to easily accomodate them.

[DocDoomII]

I still want sexy leather boob armor though.

 

If it fits the character and not too over the top, sure. Same with mage robes.

Cadegund is redhead. That's all the fanservice I personally need.

[NOK222]

She looks good in the wallpaper.

[Furiku]

Lol feminist agenda

 

Hey, you made a comprehensive post here just to...what? Boob armor?

I'm not the one who designed that in the first place, but Obsidian.

I'm also not the one who backed off from that creative vision at the first intersection, because of a VERY loud minority.

And finally I didn't make a thread trying to discuss the *very important* issue of feminism being present/included in the game, which apparently seems to be one of the top issues along with romances instead of actually talking about game issues or design, look up in the topic title it's right there before you "lol" about it again.

[Shevek]

A few things:

 

1. This is a fantasy ADVENTURE roleplaying game. Notice the word ADVENTURE. Images of women AND men should be idealized in an adventure. This is not Project:Paying My Taxes or Project:Eating Cheetos. It is Project:Eternity. You will be a group of exceptional people. Even your wimpy Wizard should be built fairly well. The guy travels for days carrying at least 40lbs of gear, walking through mud, dodging arrows and climbing cliff faces. It makes plenty of sense for these folks to have good builds. Ultimately, not everyone is made for the adventuring life. Which of these two belongs on an adventure and which should probably stay home?

 

 

 

2. The only way to correctly do as you say is to allow folks to select different physical builds. Putting in a bunch of different physical builds is HARD to do well, though. You have go through all different models and edit animations frame by frame to reduce clipping of armor pieces, etc. Frankly, I would rather they focus time and energy on more varied armor pieces on one physical build than on much fewer armor pieces iterated over several physical builds.

 

3. This a medieval fantasy. While I concur that it should be grounded in reality, I do not believe that people in that world should be portrayed as people in our world. The US has a massive obesity rate. I doubt people of medieval times had the same rates of obesity as folks today. Sure there were some (BG1/2 had overweight npcs, etc) but they should not be as prevalent.

 

4. As far as ugliness, etc. Who cares? They can be Plain Janes but they have to be built well. I suggest looking at Game of Thrones. That buff knight lady from last season comes to mind. Not too attractive but very athletically built. I do agree that women do not need to be overly top heavy, though. You certainly don't need DD's to slay a dragon.

 

[Rostere]

I was more addressing boob plate and the issue of having characters with realistic bodies. Being fat would come with lots of in- game penatlies. Ideally, it should be in the game, but I can see that not happening because of the limited resources.

 

Having all your female characters being thin as sticks, with bodies that scream "plastic surgery!" is simply not realistic. It's so simple to not do things that way, so why shouldn't they?

 

Get over it, this is a serious fantasy setting for adult audiences, not a bizarro universe for horny teenage boys. If you're so keen on the bra size of female NPCs, maybe you should go play some JRPG instead. Or why not a dating simulator.

lol what pathetic flamebait...

 

"jRPG's and horny teenage fantasy"

 

If you're worried about how things "look" so much maybe YOU should go to those boards and whine about "appropriate" body types since those AAA budgets will allow for such sheer stupidity. I'd rather things be just like they were in the IE games...none of this excessive customizing bullsh*t.

 

This f*cking gamer HERE (as in ME)? would rather resources be better spent on the actual GAME not a million different PC models and body types.

 

 

Have ANY of you people played or remember the IE games AT ALL? No physical adjustments what-so-ever (except for TOEE which let you become taller) and they were a 100 times better than the BS you see today with all these ridiculous make-up and tattoo options and height/weight adjustment BS.

 

you want that crap? go play skyrim.

 

I think you're severely misunderstanding me. It does not take any additional resources (0. zero) to make sensible, realistic character models and armour.

[Sugarjaye]

Not really no, if there were no ugly people and all were happy with everyone else there would be a lot less social issues....like diets and cosmetics and attitude problems and divorces and on and on and on.

 

I don't agree. People want to stand out. When everyone is beautiful, no one stands out. I guess that would make the whole problem worse. I don't see an automatical "all were happy" only because all people become beautiful. In fact, they would use even more cosmetics or possibly use body modifications to make themselves different.

 

Again I'm not talking about "ppw". Neither do I say that everyone should be a bombshell. But looks matter. One person taking care of herself, can be part of her diplomatic skillset, or it can simply be that she cares about herself, or both, or other things. And again, you say that average, like it's something negative. Not to mention, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Where do you base that beautiful women being skilled is not probable? Looks affect your image and as a result your charisma. And what statistics are those?

 

I am talking about genetic beauty here, not taking care of onesself. I do not say average women are not beautiful, in fact, that is my point: They can be beautiful as well! It does NOT take a bombshell to have an interesting, beautiful female character.

 

And the statistics I meant are pretty simple: Lets say, there are 20% "good-looking", 60% "average" and 20% "ugly" women out there (and that is a very generalizing statistic, sorry for that). Then it is quite more probable for the skillset to belong to the 60%, as long as you don't think that beauty and skill are correlated. Which, given diplomacy, might be the case, but certainly not in terms of lockpicking, acrobatics etc. (staying true to the thiefs guild example).

 

Let me just say that genetics do not mean anything UNLESS you take care of yourself.

[Joukehainen]

Well I think we're off to a good start with Cadegund and Sagani in that they look like realistic women and not oversexulaised.

 

I LOVED both the choice of making a dwarven ranger female (not a combo you see often, female dwarf you know - "it's the beards!"); and the look of Cadegund. Both would certainly be attractive by offline human standards, but both look like they could indeed be warriors, and while Sagani is showing skin, it's clearly not done in a gratuitous or objectifying way.

 

I feel, OP, that Obsidian is on the ball with this and we need not worry too much.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Joukehainen

[TCJ]

Lol feminist agenda

 

Hey, you made a comprehensive post here just to...what? Boob armor?

I'm not the one who designed that in the first place, but Obsidian.

I'm also not the one who backed off from that creative vision at the first intersection, because of a VERY loud minority.

And finally I didn't make a thread trying to discuss the *very important* issue of feminism being present/included in the game, which apparently seems to be one of the top issues along with romances instead of actually talking about game issues or design, look up in the topic title it's right there before you "lol" about it again.

 

If that's really the original concept art, then, no offense to the artist, but it looks absolutely awful. No visual appeal there at all. Actually, when I saw that, I thought it was some fan's cheap attempt to photoshop the artwork to make it look... "fantasy".

Edited October 19, 2012 by TCJ