Dont understand some people on here - my rant

[Malcador]

Honestly, this wouldn't be a problem if the mods actually did their job and moderated the forums. Apparently they are either lazy or they don't do crap sometimes.

 

They do clean up threads when people are being 'rude' to others, maybe your concept of 'rude' posts doesn't mesh with theirs ?

[JayDGee]

There are things I would love to see in the game I am reasonably sure most will appear in it. I am also fairly confident that there will be something I could not have thought of or dared to ask for that will surprise and delight me.

 

I am more than happy to leave the games design to the games designers.

 

Those that don't want obsidian to make the game to their own vision should probably install Game Maker. It's free you can even get it on steam.

[evdk]

There are things I would love to see in the game I am reasonably sure most will appear in it. I am also fairly confident that there will be something I could not have thought of or dared to ask for that will surprise and delight me.

 

I am more than happy to leave the games design to the games designers.

 

Those that don't want obsidian to make the game to their own vision should probably install Game Maker. It's free you can even get it on steam.

That's fine and dandy but given that this is the PE Discussion Forum, we are going to discuss PE and its design. It is somewhat inevitable.

Edited October 18, 2012 by evdk

[GhostofAnakin]

Honestly, this wouldn't be a problem if the mods actually did their job and moderated the forums. Apparently they are either lazy or they don't do crap sometimes.

 

It's kind of a no-win situation for them, though. If they were more strict, the complaint would then be that they're power hungry and censor every little thing.

[JayDGee]

There are things I would love to see in the game I am reasonably sure most will appear in it. I am also fairly confident that there will be something I could not have thought of or dared to ask for that will surprise and delight me.

 

I am more than happy to leave the games design to the games designers.

 

Those that don't want obsidian to make the game to their own vision should probably install Game Maker. It's free you can even get it on steam.

That's fine and dandy but given that this is the PE Discussion Forum, we are going to discuss PE and its design. It is somewhat inevitable.

 

Yeah discussion is great and should be actively encouraged.

Demanding that someone do their job in a certain way however is ridiculous and some people are doing that.

My point was simply if you really want a game made a certain way then make it.

Basic game design is easier than ever, even trying it would give people a greater appreciation for what they are asking of a developer.

[evdk]

There are things I would love to see in the game I am reasonably sure most will appear in it. I am also fairly confident that there will be something I could not have thought of or dared to ask for that will surprise and delight me.

 

I am more than happy to leave the games design to the games designers.

 

Those that don't want obsidian to make the game to their own vision should probably install Game Maker. It's free you can even get it on steam.

That's fine and dandy but given that this is the PE Discussion Forum, we are going to discuss PE and its design. It is somewhat inevitable.

 

Yeah discussion is great and should be actively encouraged.

Demanding that someone do their job in a certain way however is ridiculous and some people are doing that.

My point was simply if you really want a game made a certain way then make it.

Basic game design is easier than ever, even trying it would give people a greater appreciation for what they are asking of a developer.

I've donated some not entirely insignificant amount of money to this project and I would rather selfishly like the devs to make a game I'd love to play. That is why I am using this forum to voice my opinions on game design in hope of influencing it my way. I have other boards for theoretical game design discussions. And the "make your own game then" thing is a not really usable, it's on the level of "what have accomplished that gives you right to criticize" silencing tactics.

[Merin]

Honestly, this wouldn't be a problem if the mods actually did their job and moderated the forums. Apparently they are either lazy or they don't do crap sometimes.

 

I don't think it's laziness.

 

I think it may be them not being clearly instructed on what they are supposed to do, in some cases.

In other cases, it may be moderators not wanting to be heavy-handed and trying a more laissez-faire approach.

In certain cases it sure seems like some moderators look the other way when they agree with the gist of what certain posters are saying, even if said posters are breaking rules.

A good deal of it is almost certainly due to a large influx of people due to the Kickstarter meeting the probably small group of mods the site had prior.

 

Regardless of reason, this is the most lax forum (or was when I first started paying attention when PE KS began) that I've been on. Usually forums are TOO strict in my experience.

 

I don't think moderators are to blame and this isn't to call them out or anything... but a lot of activity had been going unaddressed for awhile there. As I've got people on /ignore (something I practically have never done before here) it's possible I've blocked out the main trouble makers from my vision.

[JayDGee]

There are things I would love to see in the game I am reasonably sure most will appear in it. I am also fairly confident that there will be something I could not have thought of or dared to ask for that will surprise and delight me.

 

I am more than happy to leave the games design to the games designers.

 

Those that don't want obsidian to make the game to their own vision should probably install Game Maker. It's free you can even get it on steam.

That's fine and dandy but given that this is the PE Discussion Forum, we are going to discuss PE and its design. It is somewhat inevitable.

 

Yeah discussion is great and should be actively encouraged.

Demanding that someone do their job in a certain way however is ridiculous and some people are doing that.

My point was simply if you really want a game made a certain way then make it.

Basic game design is easier than ever, even trying it would give people a greater appreciation for what they are asking of a developer.

I've donated some not entirely insignificant amount of money to this project and I would rather selfishly like the devs to make a game I'd love to play. That is why I am using this forum to voice my opinions on game design in hope of influencing it my way. I have other boards for theoretical game design discussions. And the "make your own game then" thing is a not really usable, it's on the level of "what have accomplished that gives you right to criticize" silencing tactics.

If I have offended you in some way please not it was unintended. It is also not my intention to silence anyone.

We all gave money to a developer because we trusted them to make a game that we will love. I'm doing that, I'm trusting them to make it.

I want people to discuss game ideas and theories I love that stuff. I don't want people telling someone else how to do their job. There is a difference.

I am fairly sure discussion of eternity on these forums and other locations will have influence on the games end design (pretty sure it has already).

[rjshae]

I don't think moderators are to blame and this isn't to call them out or anything... but a lot of activity had been going unaddressed for awhile there. As I've got people on /ignore (something I practically have never done before here) it's possible I've blocked out the main trouble makers from my vision.

There's an ignore mode? Well crud...

[rjshae]

If I have offended you in some way please not it was unintended. It is also not my intention to silence anyone.

We all gave money to a developer because we trusted them to make a game that we will love. I'm doing that, I'm trusting them to make it.

I want people to discuss game ideas and theories I love that stuff. I don't want people telling someone else how to do their job. There is a difference.

I am fairly sure discussion of eternity on these forums and other locations will have influence on the games end design (pretty sure it has already).

I must admit to cringing at some of the suggestions made in this forum and thinking, "Dear God, I hope the developers don't take that seriously. It's the most bone-headed gaming idea I've ever heard. What has this person been playing?" Shrug. Fortunately, I very much doubt that the developers will adopt these ideas unless they make a lot of sense.

[chisled2bone]

These guys know what they are doing. I assume a lot of us have backed them because we all have played games they have made before, and while we may have found faults within the game, we enjoyed them. They are more experienced now and i think they will only improve on the features that we love and maybe even add some ones we havent thought of. I am pretty sure they have a clear idea of what they want to do and i dont think they will be persuaded too much by what is said on the forums. Now i have no proof of this, it is only my theory. However, i am sure if they see something and they are like, "Wow, didnt think of that" then it might end up being in the game. But they started this whole project with an idea and the basis that they want to make a game based off the IE ones. That is a rather pretty specific as far as gamer design goes. But i am sure they do look to the forums and other palces for feedback on things they do announce.

[Hassat Hunter]

The moderators allow a pretty laid-back discussion.

We're mostly adults here, we generally can get heated but not go overboard. I don't think tight reigns are needed, as it only quells good discussion.

 

So yeah, I think the mods do a fine job keeping what does go over the line away, while not being harsh on things that are just heated discussions which are good to have for OE and ourselves.

 

(maybe being an ex-mod I am biased though xD)

[Grimlorn]

I'm sure we're all old enough not to be hurt by a piece of text on the internet. Are you the cyber bully police?

 

More often than not the sharpest critics do back up their distaste. However, not all the time. Here's why:

 

A) The opinion / suggested seems so ridiculous to their perspective that they believe it was a troll, so they don't reply with more than a snide remark.

B) They already explained their stance before-hand and the topic is just yet another repeat regurgitating a topic for the N-th time (romance, anyone?)

C) Some opinions are wrong and dumb. This is a fact. What if my opinion was that the sky is red or that shaking babies was the bee's knees? Why treat outright false opinions as anything more than drivel?

And that's what it comes down to. People are dumb and if you don't chastise and berate them, then they won't learn and they won't know any better. This isn't just people's opinions, these are fundamentally wrong views people have. This protecting everyone from criticism doesn't work and people advocating for this are scared of criticism.

 

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them. Just people asking for random crap that no one cares about. A lot of it isn't in the spirit of old RPGs and should be criticized. Otherwise, people will think their opinions are valid.

 

Personally, after reading these forums, I think Obsidian would be making a huge mistake trying to listen to people in these forums. That includes me I guess. Bioware fell into this trap of listening too much to their fans and that's one of the reasons they make crappy games, because their fanbase is wrong. The best RPGs were made with minimal to no feedback from consumers. And there is no reason to start listening to consumers when it's created nothing but bad communities (Bioware/Bethesda forums) and bad games.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Grimlorn

[chisled2bone]

I'm sure we're all old enough not to be hurt by a piece of text on the internet. Are you the cyber bully police?

 

More often than not the sharpest critics do back up their distaste. However, not all the time. Here's why:

 

A) The opinion / suggested seems so ridiculous to their perspective that they believe it was a troll, so they don't reply with more than a snide remark.

B) They already explained their stance before-hand and the topic is just yet another repeat regurgitating a topic for the N-th time (romance, anyone?)

C) Some opinions are wrong and dumb. This is a fact. What if my opinion was that the sky is red or that shaking babies was the bee's knees? Why treat outright false opinions as anything more than drivel?

And that's what it comes down to. People are dumb and if you don't chastise and berate them, then they won't learn and they won't know any better. This isn't just people's opinions, these are fundamentally wrong views people have. This protecting everyone from criticism doesn't work and people advocating for this are scared of criticism.

 

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them. Just people asking for random crap that no one cares about. A lot of it isn't in the spirit of old RPGs and should be criticized. Otherwise, people will think their opinions are valid.

 

Personally, after reading these forums, I think Obsidian would be making a huge mistake trying to listen to people in these forums. That includes me I guess. Bioware fell into this trap of listening too much to their fans and that's one of the reasons they make crappy games, because their fanbase is wrong. The best RPGs were made with minimal to no feedback from consumers. And there is no reason to start listening to consumers when it's created nothing but bad communities (Bioware/Bethesda forums) and bad games.

 

And who are you to say people's views are wrong?

[LadyCrimson]

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them.

In my opinion, I don't think I've seen any forum where this wasn't true, so I don't see that as a very valid criticism .... depending on one's definition of "useful," of course. Is a long debate on a movie or armchair politicking useful? People like to gather together and discuss wants, likes, dislikes on stuff they're interested in. From the frivolous to the more serious. I see nothing wrong with that. And sometimes the constant exchanges of constructive disagreement is even how good ideas - or at least ideas that spark other inspiration - come about.

 

But I would agree that developers shouldn't listen to fans to the point of giving up their own creative desires/ideas for a game. I think we need to give Obsidian more credit for being able to stay true to their own vision, while possibly still being inspired by others towards new ideas that they think fits into/with their vision.

[Malcador]

But I would agree that developers shouldn't listen to fans to the point of giving up their own creative desires/ideas for a game. I think we need to give Obsidian more credit for being able to stay true to their own vision, while possibly still being inspired by others towards new ideas that they think fits into/with their vision.

 

What's this crazy talk ? Don't you know they need us to tell them to make a good plot, create good female characters, do proper QA, etc., etc.

[LadyCrimson]

What's this crazy talk ? Don't you know they need us to tell them to make a good plot, create good female characters, do proper QA, etc., etc.

And cats, of course. This game needs moah catz.

[Grimlorn]

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them.

In my opinion, I don't think I've seen any forum where this wasn't true, so I don't see that as a very valid criticism .... depending on one's definition of "useful," of course. Is a long debate on a movie or armchair politicking useful? People like to gather together and discuss wants, likes, dislikes on stuff they're interested in. From the frivolous to the more serious. I see nothing wrong with that. And sometimes the constant exchanges of constructive disagreement is even how good ideas - or at least ideas that spark other inspiration - come about.

Let me know when we get those good ideas.

 

But I would agree that developers shouldn't listen to fans to the point of giving up their own creative desires/ideas for a game. I think we need to give Obsidian more credit for being able to stay true to their own vision, while possibly still being inspired by others towards new ideas that they think fits into/with their vision.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Grimlorn]

And who are you to say people's views are wrong?

I'm right. Being right I recognize wrong.

[LadyCrimson]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Good thing I don't believe in hell, then.

[Grimlorn]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Good thing I don't believe in hell, then.

It's a saying not to be taken literally. Geez.

[Silver6986]

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them.

In my opinion, I don't think I've seen any forum where this wasn't true, so I don't see that as a very valid criticism .... depending on one's definition of "useful," of course. Is a long debate on a movie or armchair politicking useful? People like to gather together and discuss wants, likes, dislikes on stuff they're interested in. From the frivolous to the more serious. I see nothing wrong with that. And sometimes the constant exchanges of constructive disagreement is even how good ideas - or at least ideas that spark other inspiration - come about.

 

But I would agree that developers shouldn't listen to fans to the point of giving up their own creative desires/ideas for a game. I think we need to give Obsidian more credit for being able to stay true to their own vision, while possibly still being inspired by others towards new ideas that they think fits into/with their vision.

 

Which is pretty much what is meant by those of us (me anyways) who like to point out to some who come up with rather weird and wonderful requests on these forums, that OE can make a great game regardless of what is discussed or requested. It doesn't hurt however of course, we all know that.

 

OP needs to understand that when we say "trust OE to make a great game" instead of validating such opinions with a 'like

it's really a nice way of saying... your idea sucks...

[LadyCrimson]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Good thing I don't believe in hell, then.

It's a saying not to be taken literally. Geez.

Hence my winky icon.

[chisled2bone]

About 90% of these forums have nothing useful in them.

In my opinion, I don't think I've seen any forum where this wasn't true, so I don't see that as a very valid criticism .... depending on one's definition of "useful," of course. Is a long debate on a movie or armchair politicking useful? People like to gather together and discuss wants, likes, dislikes on stuff they're interested in. From the frivolous to the more serious. I see nothing wrong with that. And sometimes the constant exchanges of constructive disagreement is even how good ideas - or at least ideas that spark other inspiration - come about.

 

But I would agree that developers shouldn't listen to fans to the point of giving up their own creative desires/ideas for a game. I think we need to give Obsidian more credit for being able to stay true to their own vision, while possibly still being inspired by others towards new ideas that they think fits into/with their vision.

 

Which is pretty much what is meant by those of us (me anyways) who like to point out to some who come up with rather weird and wonderful requests on these forums, that OE can make a great game regardless of what is discussed or requested. It doesn't hurt however of course, we all know that.

 

OP needs to understand that when we say "trust OE to make a great game" instead of validating such opinions with a 'like

it's really a nice way of saying... your idea sucks...

 

I am just saying that regardless of an idea "sucking" that doesnt mean there cant be worth while conversation that can come out of it. I mean with how much this forum is active an idea that isnt worth talking about will be buried real fast by newer topics and conversation

[rjshae]

Many of the ideas aren't bad ones; they just seem like bad ones for this style of game. But I have seen the occasional idea posted that is a little gem I wouldn't mind finding implemented.

Edited October 19, 2012 by rjshae