How much Grimdark would you like in your P:E?

[Savvy30039]

I tend to find the term 'grimdark' itself lends more towards the idea of perceived maturity, without really being mature. A preteen's idea of maturity.

 

In terms of seriousness, I prefer a balance. I love me some weighty drama and don't mind a bit of perversion as long as it's not just tossed in as shock value, but I also want some lighthearted moments as well. If you're drowning in darkness the whole time it tends to blunt the effectiveness of it.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

There's nothing I would consider in the ME series as an attempt to be GD. DA went a bit darker, but still not bleak.

[kenup]

There's nothing I would consider in the ME series as an attempt to be GD. DA went a bit darker, but still not bleak.

A fangirl and a Twilight(not the pony) fan were lead writers FFS.....

[Bloody Hypocrite]

For ME? It still wasn't a dramatic tonal shift (save for the ending) nor particularly dark.

[Nonek]

No happy endings, no winning, no good guys, endless fields of decapitated and disembowelled ponies. The glib tongues of those prone to infantile witticisms lying beneath my armoured boot, the severed wings of angels stitched into my cloak of human flesh. The moaning of the violated forming a dirge as they are slowly impaled, cthuloid horrors gibbering and feasting in the shadows, civilisation torn down, burned and ground to dust.

 

And above my throne a banner waving in the wind bearing two monolithic runes: EA.

 

 

Nah, i'm fine with Dead Money level of Grimdark. Nice moral quandaries and people being their own verminous selves.

[kenup]

For ME? It still wasn't a dramatic tonal shift (save for the ending) nor particularly dark.

DA, especially the 2nd one. I don't know how much Hepler was involved in the first one. And she wasn't involved in ME3, though her husband was.

Edited October 14, 2012 by kenup

[Monte Carlo]

I want to be able to barbecue a unicorn whilst wearing a radioactive ball-gag.

[kenup]

I want to be able to barbecue a unicorn whilst wearing a radioactive ball-gag.

And the guy in your sig sits on a giant ear, so your argument is invalid.

[Nonek]

On its own horn?

[Bloody Hypocrite]

You may have a point there, just from the Manson trailer... but as bad as the game was, it didn't feel that artificially lathered on, except for the mandatory serial killer bit.

[Syraxis]

I don't know, how dark would a combination of Mask of the Betrayer, Storm of Swords, a dash of Diablo II, Witcher II, topped off with a scoop of pumpkin pie ice cream be?

 

edit: And no, I'm not implying some of the fantasy titles listed are "dark" in anyway.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Syraxis

[Bloody Hypocrite]

I think we may have different definitions on what we're trying to talk about. The DA series was most definitely Bioware's 'darkest' attempt, but they were still fairly light all things considered.

[Monte Carlo]

The DA series was most definitely Bioware's 'darkest' attempt

 

As I said at the time, Dragon Age was about as tame as a Mid-West Ren Fayre.

[diablo169]

Grimdark for the sake of being Grimdark is pretentious as all hell, the world doesnt have to be all dark and gritty to tell a good story. Considering Obsidians previous offerings I dont think we need to worry about the tone being right.

Edited October 14, 2012 by diablo169

[JFSOCC]

I couldn't sympathise with the DA people, all their problems were based on being stuck in their way of thinking, even my main characters "choice" to join the greywardens was one I would not have made. that and the game was riddled with design flaws.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Those toffee apples and roasted chestnuts can be really hardcore, if used in archebusal bondage.... But what do I know.

[Zu Long]

The DA series was most definitely Bioware's 'darkest' attempt

 

As I said at the time, Dragon Age was about as tame as a Mid-West Ren Fayre.

 

 

If having to do battle with the man who brutally murdered your mother while her twitching, reanimated, stitched together corpse stumbles about the battlefield is tame to you, I'm guessing I wouldn't enjoy anything you actually think is hardcore.

[Nonek]

The DA series was most definitely Bioware's 'darkest' attempt

 

As I said at the time, Dragon Age was about as tame as a Mid-West Ren Fayre.

 

 

If having to do battle with the man who brutally murdered your mother while her twitching, reanimated, stitched together corpse stumbles about the battlefield is tame to you, I'm guessing I wouldn't enjoy anything you actually think is hardcore.

 

That was the most hilarious part of the game, I immediately started singing Thriller when zombiemom appeared, god that was dire. Still good laugh.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Nonek

[kenup]

I think we may have different definitions on what we're trying to talk about. The DA series was most definitely Bioware's 'darkest' attempt, but they were still fairly light all things considered.

The problem was with the force feeding. The crazy dwarf before the Broodmother was great. The Broodmother and the Mother from the expansion were just disturbing BS. The Dark ritual was fine, but why show the sex scene if no romance(or even if it was) was involved. They focused on the "visual" part of Show in "Show don't tell", when that means more than graphic violence, sex and **** hanging off some fat tentacle monster.

 

But whatever, It had good moments, it just fell flat in cases like these.

Edited October 14, 2012 by kenup

[Bloody Hypocrite]

necro-bestiality!

[Death Machine Miyagi]

I do think its too easy to say 'it should depend on the region or player choice or insert other thing here'. Eventually such choices and regions add up, with the sum total of grimness vs. cheer marking where the game as a whole lands on the scale. The very existence of clear-cut player choices which end with everything turning out really well and all set to right marks a pretty sharp shift towards the fluffier end of the scale, while the lack thereof marks a shift towards grimness.

[Tamerlane]

Anyone ever play the game Drakengard?

 

 

I hope not. That game was ****ing awful. But it's also my go-to example of "this is some dark ****, yo".

 

The main character gradually descends from "last hope of a defeated nation" to "homicidal monster". Your allies are pedophiles and cannibals. The sky itself breaks open, sending and a limitless horde of voracious fetuses into the world to devour its inhabitants.

 

 

And the weapons! There was this huge emphasis on collecting weapons, and they all had their own elaborate and pointlessly nihilistic backstories.

 

 

Unfortunately, the game was awful. Looked terrible, had a nonsense plot, was grindy as hell, and just didn't play well. It had a sequel that did nothing to improve the gameplay and replaced the charmingly omnicidal protagonist with the most generic JRPG **** you'd ever meet. The PS3/360 game "Nier" is also a pseudo-sequel to Drakengard and is actually a legitimately good game with mostly-not-terrible gameplay, a coherent plot, and some of the most depressing **** I've ever encountered in the New Game+ section. Sadly, the developer folded shortly after the game came out.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Tamerlane,

Now that sounds like GD to me. Everything is terrible, every action futile...

[Zu Long]

I do think its too easy to say 'it should depend on the region or player choice or insert other thing here'. Eventually such choices and regions add up, with the sum total of grimness vs. cheer marking where the game as a whole lands on the scale. The very existence of clear-cut player choices which end with everything turning out really well and all set to right marks a pretty sharp shift towards the fluffier end of the scale, while the lack thereof marks a shift towards grimness.

 

See, but I don't see why the existence of a path where things turn out well somehow negates the legitimacy of a path where things don't turn out as well. It's like saying the existence of light-side paths in KOTOR and KOTOR II means the dark-side paths aren't viable. Why? I've never found it to be true. I DO feel it when there is no light side path, as well as when there is no dark-side path. How does the option to choose automatically make it light-side?

[Zu Long]

@Tammerlane- Man I remember seeing that game and thinking "A Squaresoft game about a Dragon Knight? This will be awesome!"

 

I was profoundly disappointed.