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Update #16: Reward Updates, Combat with Tim, Mods, and the Mega Dungeon Grows!

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I am very dissapointed to hear about this sudden addition of the exclusive pet at the 50 dollar and above mark.

 

When I initially pledged my 20 dollars I was under the impression I would be getting all of the available in-game content at the 20 dollar mark.

 

Apparently now I must up my pledge to 50 or above in order to have access to all of the content.

 

Great.

 

I guess I will have do that, but it leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. I would have had no problem pledging 50 dollars initially knowing that is what it would take to get all of the in-game content. It makes me wonder if after I pledge 50 dollars there's going to be some new exclusive digital item added at some higher price? Can we have a guarantee that the 50 dollar mark will get us the full unlimited experience?

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I am very dissapointed to hear about this sudden addition of the exclusive pet at the 50 dollar and above mark.

 

When I initially pledged my 20 dollars I was under the impression I would be getting all of the available in-game content at the 20 dollar mark.

 

Apparently now I must up my pledge to 50 or above in order to have access to all of the content.

 

Great.

 

I guess I will have do that, but it leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. I would have had no problem pledging 50 dollars initially knowing that is what it would take to get all of the in-game content. It makes me wonder if after I pledge 50 dollars there's going to be some new exclusive digital item added at some higher price? Can we have a guarantee that the 50 dollar mark will get us the full unlimited experience?

its a vanity pet in a single player game

Edited by ogrezilla
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Stop comparing BG2 magic to PE magic?!? We don't even know how powerful spells are in the first place and you say that the mages will be OP. Use your brain maybe?


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I am very dissapointed to hear about this sudden addition of the exclusive pet at the 50 dollar and above mark.

 

When I initially pledged my 20 dollars I was under the impression I would be getting all of the available in-game content at the 20 dollar mark.

 

Apparently now I must up my pledge to 50 or above in order to have access to all of the content.

 

Kickstarter is not a store, you are donating money so they can make the game, not buying something. The reward tiers exist as a thank you. Also, I wouldn't call a cosmetic pet content. I would gladly give you mine if I could (I don't care about cosmetic pets).

 

Also, all Kickstarters get in game stuff that nobody else will get once the game is released (achievement and item).

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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From your quote of Tim "It's the higher level spells that have a certain limit on how many times they can be cast before the wizard will have to rest."

 

Oh I see. His use of the term "rest". I agree that is a bit confusing, but by "rest" he seems to just mean a short pause. As opposed to the lower level spells that you can just spam forever. He says that after you use a certain number of spells in a particular level you are locked out of that spell level for a certain number of 'rounds'. So let's say you sling a bunch of third level fireballs until the page for your third level spells greys out. You then switch to a different level for a while and after maybe a IE turn (10 rounds) your third level spells un-grey again. Again, this is in contrast to the maybe first and second level spells which are considered the equivalent of a fighter swinging his sword. By "rest" I don't think he is talking about 8 hours of sleep or anything because that would contradict the rest of what he says.

Edited by metiman
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JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

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Guest ironglad

My first feeling was a dog...classic.

Then I thought the pet should depend on class, so ranger has a fox , Rogue has a rat in a ball.

 

But if i was going for something a little oddball, i would have something connected to your soul, a spectral/astral fish /sole..sorry..or soul projected squid/jellyfish. Maybe it changes colour depending on what you are going through..turns red if in combat etc...

 

 

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its a vanity pet in a single player game

 

Yes. It is. And something like that is important to my experience personally.

 

There have been many other games that have offered vanity pets, and I have enjoyed having them quite a bit.

 

I know for a fact if I don't up my pledge there will be a persistent feeling that I might be missing out on a neat little piece of in-game content.

 

In-game content is important to me. Some people value art books and novels and little physical trinkets. I have absolutely no use for those. I personally like in-game items though, and it's very frustrating when they are exclusive. And I thought I would be getting all of the in-game items at the 20 dollar mark. Now that is not the case.

 

So, as I said. I'll be upping my pledge, but it's rather irritating.

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From your quote of Tim "It's the higher level spells that have a certain limit on how many times they can be cast before the wizard will have to rest."

 

Oh I see. His use of the term "rest". I agree that is a bit confusing, but by "rest" he seems to just mean a short pause. As opposed to the lower level spells that you can just spam forever. He says that after you use a certain number of spells in a particular level you are locked out of that spell level for a certain number of 'rounds'. So let's say you sling a bunch of third level fireballs until the page for your third level spells greys out. You then switch to a different level for a while and after maybe a IE turn (10 rounds) your third level spells un-grey again. Again, this is in contrast to the maybe first and second level spells which are considered the equivalent of a fighter swinging his sword. By "rest" I don't think he is talking about 8 hours of sleep or anything because that would contradict the rest of what he says.

I still believe that when Tim was talking about spell cool downs, he was talking about the non grimoire spells. If not, then I will fight alongside you for at least the option to have a system that makes spell casting an interesting and tactical challenge.

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Pet - anything but a dog. Seriously, it's been done, then done again, then done and done and done. It must be time for a cat to have its day.

+3

 

...failing that, mongoose. Yes, that's right, I said mongoose. Rikki-Tikki-Tavi....

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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Nice update. I like your ideas for the combat system. You're right about the imbalance between mages and fighters in the IE games. I like your idea of giving mages some smalltime spells to cast that never run out. It's at the least more interesting than just having them stand there throwing slingbullets that never hit anyway.

To bad about hearing that animations are a limiting factor in combat, but I know that this is the case for most games, especially those on a small budget like PE. So it's a good call to spend funds on other things than fringe situations in combat.

 

As for the pet: It would be nice if this would be a creature that would only exist in the world of PE, rather than simply, say, a dog or an imp.

Edited by ImRhoven

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I would like my pet to be a ghost of some creature who follows my character around. Then you don't need really think why it never dies and why it don't do anything in battles.

 

When every character in your party has some sort magical abilities thanks for soul power conjuring system, so I don't think that unlimited low level spells will make wizard overpowered or god like. And when higher level spell are limited by grimoires and casting limit, that in my opinion will let you experience same tactical and strategic choices what magic system in BGs and IWDs gave to you. And hopefully you need do same choices with other classes, so that wizards and priest aren't only classes with need for tactical mind.

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Regarding the pet:

I would like to see maybe 2 or 3 different pet options. Of course this means a lot of programming effort.

However, what if you gave us 3 options: a bird, a dog-type and a rodent.

Then make 2-3 "skins" for each which totals 6-9 pets. That reduces animating work and you just need to make more "skins".

You may have to scale for size but the animations could be the same for each animal

 

For example:

Each time you start a new game you get to pick a pet for your character.

This could be either:

canine-type: a) domesticated dog b) wolf

bird-type: a) crow b) falcon c) parrot

rodent-type: a) rat b) gerbil c) mouse

(i was gonna add reptile but can't come up with any distinctive animals that coulg share the same model)

 

The animals may be very similar, but still a witch/sorcerer with a crow is cooler than with a dog. Yet a range rneeds a falcon not a crow or a parrot.

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Oh I see. His use of the term "rest". I agree that is a bit confusing, but by "rest" he seems to just mean a short pause.

I don't think so -- it would be really weird for anyone who played the Infinity Engine games to refer to using low level spells in combat as "rest". I spoke of this in more detail in the dedicated thread, but I believe that there is an additional limitation (e.g. something like mana) on high-level spells which requires resting after a while. That is, once you run out, you can still use the basic spells, but you can't cast from the grimoire.

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I still believe that when Tim was talking about spell cool downs, he was talking about the non grimoire spells. If not, then I will fight alongside you for at least the option to have a system that makes spell casting an interesting and tactical challenge.

 

Non grimoire spells? You mean like cleric spells? He says that all (mage) spells that are not "low level" are grimoire spells. Even if Clerics have 8 hour spell resets, it still leaves the problem of the mage spell system. Who knows what the deity-based cleric spell system is going to look like, but he did say that he and Josh considered all spell casters to be unfairly hindered by spell limits and that they wanted to remove those limits. Maybe for clerics spammable first and second level spells will be sufficient, but it does sound as if, for mages at least, grimoire spells = high level spells = reset by level at every cooldown period during combat.


JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

.
.

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My understanding about the Magic system is a bit different than the ones people seem to have:

 

*Spells that are much lower levels than your max level of spells do not need you to use a grimoire to cast, and as such they do not need rest nor cooldown to recharge. (though they still need soulpower).

*You 'charge' your grimoire, which means that each level of spells in the grimoire have a limited number of spells you can use before that level is drained. a Cooldown is then activated until the appropriate level of spells are charged with soulpower again.

*Higher levels of spells (compared to your wiard level) in the grimoir can't regenerate without rest (too complex for oyur current character to recharge on the fly).

*You can switch grimoire within a fight, which means transferring all the soulpower within a grimoire to the next grimoire. When doing so, it means 'switching' between two different sets of spells.

Edited by Arkeus

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It shouldn't be a dog, that's too common.

If it's not a dog, then we're entering familiar territory. People wanting different animals for different reasons. People will wants cats for sneaky characters, dragons for powerful characters, spiders for evil characters, etc.

 

The only solution is something thematic or something original. Like an unbound fractured soul. This little blue thing that floats around.

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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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I'd much rather all backers get access to the same game and content.

 

I mean, extras and physical things are one thing. In-game exclusive content for high tiers? That's like reverse DLC :(

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My understanding about the Magic system is a bit different than the ones people seem to have:

 

*Spells that are much lower levels than your max level of spells do not need you to use a grimoire to cast, and as such they do not need rest nor cooldown to recharge. (though they still need soulpower).

*You 'charge' your grimoire, which means that each level of spells in the grimoire have a limited number of spells you can use before that level is drained. a Cooldown is then activated until the appropriate level of spells are charged with soulpower again.

*Higher levels of spells (compared to your wiard level) in the grimoir can't regenerate without rest (too complex for oyur current character to recharge on the fly).

*You can switch grimoire within a fight, which means transferring all the soulpower within a grimoire to the next grimoire. When doing so, it means 'switching' between two different sets of spells.

An interesting interpretation. While that still ''sounds' over powered to me, I am sill limited by using the DnD spells as my primary frame of reference.

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Tale's reply made me think of skull, a floating skull lit from inside by a blue eerie flame.

 

How about something like we get the pet during a small prelude quest? Where through dialogue we get to choose which pet we get? Like for the skull, it made me think of a lost soul. A lost soul on a quest for salvation or perhaps on a quest to finish something the person failed to do in life? Vanity pets can be designed to be exotic, have interesting background stories.

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Oh I see. His use of the term "rest". I agree that is a bit confusing, but by "rest" he seems to just mean a short pause.

I don't think so -- it would be really weird for anyone who played the Infinity Engine games to refer to using low level spells in combat as "rest". I spoke of this in more detail in the dedicated thread, but I believe that there is an additional limitation (e.g. something like mana) on high-level spells which requires resting after a while. That is, once you run out, you can still use the basic spells, but you can't cast from the grimoire.

 

I agree that it is a weird use of the word "rest", but it didn't sound like a prepared speech. So you wouldn't expect every term he uses to be well thought out. Well it is possible that there is a mana pool, but he didn't mention it which is kind of weird considering how important that would be to the whole cooldown and magic topic. If there were a mana pool that would significantly affect these spell mechanics.

 

Depending on how quickly you regenerate mana (if at all) it could trivialize all of this spell reset stuff. Let's say you had a mana pool that allowed you to cast just 5-10 high level spells before being drained and that it needed 8 hours of sleep to be reset. That would actually be pretty similar to a BG2 sorcerer. That would be awesome actually. But what purpose would the by-level reset mechanic he describes serve in that case? If you had a large enough mana pool it might allow you to cast higher level spells in the cast-cooldown-cast pattern for a while until your mana ran out and then you really did have to leave the dungeon and rest. I suppose that's possible. Although it still wouldn't make me happy if there is so much mana that you could make it through an entire dungeon before having to rest and refill it. Obviously once you start adding in magic system elements that were not mentioned you quickly end up in a la la land of speculation.


JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

.
.

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I'd much rather all backers get access to the same game and content.

 

I mean, extras and physical things are one thing. In-game exclusive content for high tiers? That's like reverse DLC :(

 

If they gave us exclusive quest or area then yea that would be a bad idea but I wouldn't call a pet that does nothing and is entirely optional "content". Yes $50+ backers gets it exclusively but so what? I mean there's no quest involved around it. No items, no NPC etc. It's just there, following you, not helping in combat... just staring you while you sleep with its dead, cold eyes...

Edited by Apatia

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My understanding about the Magic system is a bit different than the ones people seem to have:

 

*Spells that are much lower levels than your max level of spells do not need you to use a grimoire to cast, and as such they do not need rest nor cooldown to recharge. (though they still need soulpower).

*You 'charge' your grimoire, which means that each level of spells in the grimoire have a limited number of spells you can use before that level is drained. a Cooldown is then activated until the appropriate level of spells are charged with soulpower again.

*Higher levels of spells (compared to your wiard level) in the grimoir can't regenerate without rest (too complex for oyur current character to recharge on the fly).

*You can switch grimoire within a fight, which means transferring all the soulpower within a grimoire to the next grimoire. When doing so, it means 'switching' between two different sets of spells.

 

What are you basing that on? Certainly nothing that Tim actually said in his update. He hasn't actually mentioned any grimoire spells that were too high level to be reset with the by-level reset mechanic. I do like your narrative interpretation of the by-level cooldown period as "charging your grimoire", although technically you'd only be charging that level of spells. Not the whole grimoire.


JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

.
.

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