PE already inspiring others

[Hornet85]

All I get was old school RPG old school RPG and old school RPG.

 

It feels like they rushed it out without much details or even a proper name. What the fans need to know is that these people have plan everything out and know where they are heading. Had they properly lay out everything, I think they would have gotten more backers.

 

Old school RPG doesn't guarantee that the game will be good. We need to know more. They need their project to be able to stand on its own without that old school RPG labeling.

 

They overused the "old school RPG" label to the point of calling the project Old School RPG. IMO that's a mistake, it gives the impression that they just want to cash in on this old school RPG phenomena without a proper plan that can stand on its own.

 

 

That said, I do hope they get their stuff together and that it will be a success. They really need to put out more info on exactly what they are trying to make.,

Edited October 4, 2012 by Hornet85

[Malcador]

I have the right to expect more before backing....

 

I was around since the countdown to PE first stated and we both know that Obsidian at least had some cryptic lore and puzzles going on and overall Obsidian's kickstarter page was a thousand times more thought out with a lot more effort placed into it.

 

So some ARG silliness is what's needed else a KS is just all fluff ?

[Wintersong]

Aaaaaand they restricted comments to backers only.....figures, they KNOW they're going to get flamed to death for copy-pasting and lack of thought and planning....I was going to help out with that.

Comments in Kickstarter have been always restricted to backers, as far as I know.

Look at the good side, you can still be an **** sending them a message directly.

 

The situation reminds me in part of that of Wasteland 2 still up there and Shadowrun Returns making its appearence. These people should really consider to space themselves more. Kickstarters that actually expect to make some serious money (old-School RPG certainly aims to almost the same budget as Obsidian, and Shadowrun Return's 400K was quite a lot back in the day... some months ago), should keep in mind that, you know, some people are not made of gold. And expecting them to produce lots of money in a short period of time is like, I don't know, a bit crazy. Supposing that this new project actually provides real information about it that may interests me, due to their timing, I may find myself not being able to pledge. And in the case of being to do so, it may happen only in the last day of it.

 

Small projects don't need to worry about that stuff but these "I need a bazillion" should be more... gentle with our wallets. Way to risk pledges, imho.

 

In any case, lack of some precise info would be nice. Will it be Wizardry? Won't it be? Jagged Alliance? The bullet points are interesting but... er... imho not enough to jump blind.

[C2B]

I have the right to expect more before backing....

 

I was around since the countdown to PE first stated and we both know that Obsidian at least had some cryptic lore and puzzles going on and overall Obsidian's kickstarter page was a thousand times more thought out with a lot more effort placed into it.

 

Which still wasn't anything to really go on.

 

And I don't have anything against it if your holding back your pledge because of it. Your money. But, that doesn't mean that you should rally against them because you somehow feel justified in doing so. It's the individual's decision if these things are enough for them to back something. However if you want to provide them with actual contstructive critisism. That's good.

 

@Wintersong: It sounds like a *spiritual succesor* to Wizardry from the current Kickstarter page.

Edited October 4, 2012 by C2B

[norolim]

Hmm...you see they are all developers. They know one another and often know what other studios or groups are planning. It just occured to me that maybe they decided to start their Kickstarter now, because they know someone else, someone big is going to start their campaign in 2 weeks. Line, I don't know, EA will try to pitch Dragon Age 3 (an old-school platformer platformer RPG similar to Sonic).

[Hiro Protagonist II]

It would've been good to actually show game play videos of the old style crpgs that they want to emulate and pay homage to like Obsidian did in their video. But then you might have people complaining they stole that from Obsidian as well.

 

Seriously though, I do hope they do well in their kickstarter. The problems I see with this is:

 

- It feels like they put this together in a day. It comes across as amatuerish and they looked at how well other developers are doing and jumped on the bandwagon.

- No clear defined game on what they want to make. Should have used old gameplay videos of previous games to show what they were trying to aim for. I didn't know if it was first person or isometric. Only checking the kickstarter site I found out it was going to be first person.

- Is it fantasy like Wizardy? sci-fi? or both? I thought it was going to be fantasy because they spent so much time talking about Wizardy. From their kickstarter page they're saying it's both a sci-fi fantasy game. So I'm guessing it's going to be more like Anachronox? I have no idea.

- Too many cliches with 'old school rpg' in their pitch video. I was pretty tired of hearing it so many times.

- Two crpgs in the one kickstarter? That seems strange. Would prefer they concentrate on one game and make it good than try and make two games in the same time.

- Timing is really poor. They should have waited another 2 weeks when Project Eternity was over to start their Kickstarter. It would have done a lot better if they waited because a lot of people have already devoted their money to Obsidian now. If they started in 2 weeks time, they would have been riding on the back of Obsidan. All they're doing now is competing with Obsidian.

- If they get their funding for 2 games, they have 12 months to make 2 games. Seriously? Their due date is 3 months earlier than Project Eternity.

 

I have no issue with them copying any ideas from Obsidian or other Kickstarter projects. So many Kickstarter projects are copying each other for ideas that it doesn't bother me. As I said before, I won't be supporting this.

[Darth Trethon]

 

Comments in Kickstarter have been always restricted to backers, as far as I know.

Look at the good side, you can still be an **** sending them a message directly.

 

The situation reminds me in part of that of Wasteland 2 still up there and Shadowrun Returns making its appearence. These people should really consider to space themselves more. Kickstarters that actually expect to make some serious money (old-School RPG certainly aims to almost the same budget as Obsidian, and Shadowrun Return's 400K was quite a lot back in the day... some months ago), should keep in mind that, you know, some people are not made of gold. And expecting them to produce lots of money in a short period of time is like, I don't know, a bit crazy. Supposing that this new project actually provides real information about it that may interests me, due to their timing, I may find myself not being able to pledge. And in the case of being to do so, it may happen only in the last day of it.

 

Small projects don't need to worry about that stuff but these "I need a bazillion" should be more... gentle with our wallets. Way to risk pledges, imho.

 

In any case, lack of some precise info would be nice. Will it be Wizardry? Won't it be? Jagged Alliance? The bullet points are interesting but... er... imho not enough to jump blind.

 

Very nice post, I really like this response and completely agree. I didn't know all kickstarters restricted comments to backers as I never partook in one before PE. Beyond that, if I can pledge any more anytime soon I'll just add it to my PE backing, Old School RPG haven't shown anything to convince me I ought to back them.

[C2B]

- Is it fantasy like Wizardy? sci-fi? or both? I thought it was going to be fantasy because they spent so much time talking about Wizardy. From their kickstarter page they're saying it's both a sci-fi fantasy game. So I'm guessing it's going to be more like Anachronox? I have no idea.

 

Wizardry had a lot of Sci-Fi.

 

Which did you play?

Edited October 4, 2012 by C2B

[Hornet85]

Hmm...you see they are all developers. They know one another and often know what other studios or groups are planning. It just occured to me that maybe they decided to start their Kickstarter now, because they know someone else, someone big is going to start their campaign in 2 weeks. Line, I don't know, EA will try to pitch Dragon Age 3 (an old-school platformer platformer RPG similar to Sonic).

 

Well EA cannot start a Kickstarter (at least I hope not, lol). So whatever Dragon Age 3 may be, people will only buy it when its released and that's a long time away. For now people will not be choosing between DA3 or this.

 

But I can see your point , if some other indie dev are coming up with another similar KS project, then yeah that might cause them to push their own KS earlier.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

eh, I only played the first two or three on the Apple. It was just a dungeon crawl. No sci-fi.

[C2B]

eh, I only played the first two or three on the Apple. It was just a dungeon crawl. No sci-fi.

 

Ahhh, yup. The sci-fi thing began later.

[ImRhoven]

A lot more than saying "we're totally old-shool" a hundred times and at least they had a map, videos and original kickstarter page design going on.....and they didn't copy paste another kickstarter page.

 

DFA was literary, *I want to do a Adventure*

Wasteland 2 was literary, "I want to do another Wasteland"

Project Eternity was literary "We want to do a spiritual successor to the IE games*

 

Nothing else was really known. I was around for the first days of everyone of them. And again, they didn't "just copy paste*. They most likely saw that Obsidian's design worked and asked them to use it. The only one who has a right to be THAT upset about this is Obsidian themselves. Not you. There's no logical reasoning here.

 

For both wasteland and PE that bit of info gives you a ton of context as to what exactly it is their developers want to achieve. "Old school RPG" is a lot more vague and can mean lots of things.

[C2B]

A lot more than saying "we're totally old-shool" a hundred times and at least they had a map, videos and original kickstarter page design going on.....and they didn't copy paste another kickstarter page.

 

DFA was literary, *I want to do a Adventure*

Wasteland 2 was literary, "I want to do another Wasteland"

Project Eternity was literary "We want to do a spiritual successor to the IE games*

 

Nothing else was really known. I was around for the first days of everyone of them. And again, they didn't "just copy paste*. They most likely saw that Obsidian's design worked and asked them to use it. The only one who has a right to be THAT upset about this is Obsidian themselves. Not you. There's no logical reasoning here.

 

For both wasteland and PE that bit of info gives you a ton of context as to what exactly it is their developers want to achieve. "Old school RPG" is a lot more vague and can mean lots of things.

 

Well Wizardry. They just didn't spell it out as much and not clear enough.

[norolim]

Well EA cannot start a Kickstarter (at least I hope not, lol).

 

Actually, I didn't see anything in Kickstarter Terms of Use and Guidlines that would restrict EA from starting their own project. Not the point though, 'cause I used EA and Dragon Age there as a joke and an example meant to illustrate the problem.

[ImRhoven]

A lot more than saying "we're totally old-shool" a hundred times and at least they had a map, videos and original kickstarter page design going on.....and they didn't copy paste another kickstarter page.

 

DFA was literary, *I want to do a Adventure*

Wasteland 2 was literary, "I want to do another Wasteland"

Project Eternity was literary "We want to do a spiritual successor to the IE games*

 

Nothing else was really known. I was around for the first days of everyone of them. And again, they didn't "just copy paste*. They most likely saw that Obsidian's design worked and asked them to use it. The only one who has a right to be THAT upset about this is Obsidian themselves. Not you. There's no logical reasoning here.

 

For both wasteland and PE that bit of info gives you a ton of context as to what exactly it is their developers want to achieve. "Old school RPG" is a lot more vague and can mean lots of things.

 

Well Wizardry. They just didn't spell it out as much and not clear enough.

 

Which would be my point.

[Merin]

Aaaaaand they restricted comments to backers only.....figures, they KNOW they're going to get flamed to death for copy-pasting and lack of thought and planning....I was going to help out with that.

 

That's bull****. Why? Seriously why?

 

Do you need some kind of war with them. What do you care if they reuse the Obsidian design ESPECIALLY WHEN OBSIDIAN ITSELF SUPPORTS THE PROJECT.

 

 

What is wrong with you people?

 

I don't get it, either.

 

When PE came out there were plenty of "they need to give more information" geniuses and "this was poorly started" intellectuals. As if there's some guidebook on how to do it, how much information must be shared, what constitutes...

 

you know what... people just want to whine and complain. People want something to mock. People like to attack something to feel better about what they like or themselves.

 

It's silly and pointless. I just hope brainiacs like these people don't actually affect the rest of us who like the project and want to see it succeed.

[Merin]

- Is it fantasy like Wizardy? sci-fi? or both? I thought it was going to be fantasy because they spent so much time talking about Wizardy. From their kickstarter page they're saying it's both a sci-fi fantasy game. So I'm guessing it's going to be more like Anachronox? I have no idea.

 

Wizardry had a lot of Sci-Fi.

 

Which did you play?

 

Wizardry and Ultima had a lot of sci-fi. Mixing fantasy and sci-fi WAS old school cRPG. You know, what was old school before Baldur's Gate was even conceived of.

[Darth Trethon]

 

I don't get it, either.

 

When PE came out there were plenty of "they need to give more information" geniuses and "this was poorly started" intellectuals. As if there's some guidebook on how to do it, how much information must be shared, what constitutes...

 

you know what... people just want to whine and complain. People want something to mock. People like to attack something to feel better about what they like or themselves.

 

It's silly and pointless. I just hope brainiacs like these people don't actually affect the rest of us who like the project and want to see it succeed.

 

You really didn't read the rest of that conversation did you? It just so happens you are wrong in your assessment.....perhaps it is you who just wants to mock and ridicule? My reasons were completely different....before actually seeing their page I was excited at the potential of another great RPG that I might support.

[jarpie]

Aaaaaand they restricted comments to backers only.....figures, they KNOW they're going to get flamed to death for copy-pasting and lack of thought and planning....I was going to help out with that.

 

That's bull****. Why? Seriously why?

 

Do you need some kind of war with them. What do you care if they reuse the Obsidian design ESPECIALLY WHEN OBSIDIAN ITSELF SUPPORTS THE PROJECT.

 

 

What is wrong with you people?

 

I don't get it, either.

 

When PE came out there were plenty of "they need to give more information" geniuses and "this was poorly started" intellectuals. As if there's some guidebook on how to do it, how much information must be shared, what constitutes...

 

you know what... people just want to whine and complain. People want something to mock. People like to attack something to feel better about what they like or themselves.

 

It's silly and pointless. I just hope brainiacs like these people don't actually affect the rest of us who like the project and want to see it succeed.

 

The problem with "An Old-School RPG by Brenda Brathwait and Tom Hall!" is that they have basicly zero info on what kind of old-school rpg it will be other than turn-based. Obsidian's Kickstarter at least had it's gonna be A) fantasy, B) isometric, C) real-time with pause and what they are going to do with it (mature etc) and the map.

 

There are gazillion plus one different "old-school rpgs".

 

Edit: I mean gazillion different kind of rpgs from the olden days.

Edited October 4, 2012 by jarpie

[Althernai]

Hmm...you see they are all developers. They know one another and often know what other studios or groups are planning. It just occured to me that maybe they decided to start their Kickstarter now, because they know someone else, someone big is going to start their campaign in 2 weeks.

That would actually make a whole lot of sense -- but I cannot think of who would do this or what they would be doing. We've already covered the Infinity Engine, Wasteland and Shadowrun. What's left? Might and Magic?

 

I'm feeling kind of conflicted about this project. On the one hand, I want them to succeed -- that is not my kind of RPG, but it's still nice to have more variety around. On the other hand, they went about this in a very strange and not entirely nice way. They started their Kickstarter in the middle of Obsidian's with a page that looks like it was rushed and borrows more than a little from the structure of Project Eternity's page. At first, I thought that they saw the massive outpouring of support for Project Eternity (and Wasteland 2 before it) and took it as a sign that people will support just about any old-school RPG (hence the name). If that is the case, they they clearly thought wrong: they are not competing with Project Eternity; more like eating the scraps from PE's table. I just don't understand what they were thinking.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I just look at the stretch goals "Mobile support" That alone proves it is definitely not going to be my kind of rpg, think I will stick with Project Eternity.

 

Good luck to them though.

Those really old CRPGs actually port quite well to mobile. Oubliette (whose creator, Jim Schwaiger/Victor Helsing, actually accused Wizardry of stealing his idea) was released for the iPhone last year, 34 years after it debuted on the PLATO mainframe. The only gameplay difference is that you cast spells by choosing them from a menu rather than having to type in their names (which was, admittedly, part of the fun, because the guy had invented his own magical language that you kind of had to learn - I have fond memories af casting Fieminat or Geibor).

[Shevek]

PE is made by a proven RPG company with a long storied history in making these kind of games. I trust them. No disrespect but I don't trust those other folks.

[C2B]

PE is made by a proven RPG company with a long storied history in making these kind of games. I trust them. No disrespect but I don't trust those other folks.

 

I disagree on that

 

Brenda Brathwaite has a really long history with Wizardry (though she mainly designed/wrote on Wizardry 8 and was a writer on Jagged Alliance 2). Tom Hall is a widely respected game developer and Anarchranox counts as an extraordinary rpg (and one of the most creative) of all time.

 

Both actually have a longer game development experience than Sawyer or Avellone.

Edited October 4, 2012 by C2B

[TrashMan]

@Darth Trethon

 

[C2B]

Massive update coming today for story, theme and setting