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Things you'd like to see in PE that haven't been done before in a cRPG


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Smarter enemies.

In every cRPG, it always boils down to the enemies playing their hands in one go and rushing at you. There's never a reservation of power for key moments. There's never a chance to be lulled into a false sense of security and led into a trap. When you're playing against illithids or liches or any especially old/wise/intelligent humanoids, they should be diabolical.

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MARRY ME!

 

On condition that you are a sexy magic wielding goddess, but judging from your nick, you are not :p

 

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

I can get a sex-change ya know :dancing:

 

 

 

 

An interesting idea. Something similar, I believe, was done in a Diabloclone called Heretic Kingdoms: The Inquisition (or Kult: Heretic Kingdoms in Europe). In my opinion though, this would complicate things to much. A better solution could be to have fighting characters collapse before their HP reaches 0. After all, who would be able to stand and fight, if they had so little strength left in them? It would make the game more realistic, if party members became incapacitated at 15-20% of their HP (less on higher levels) and died when they lost all health points. The enemies would stop attacking them when they collapse, unless they were a particularly mean kind, that like to mutilate bodies, and you would have a chance to heal them after the battle. Of course if they are unlucky enough and have their remaining HP taken with a single blow...well that's life. But I feel such a system would make things easier (also from the mechanics point of view) and still less punishing, when it comes to your characters dying.

 

In ye olde systemcharacters died at -10..not 0 HP. But -10 ins't enough of a buffer IMHO.

 

Go into the negative as much as half the HP.

A character with 100 HP can go to -50 before dying.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Well yeah, I'll concede the critical path of the plot shouldn't move along in real time, it steals from the game to be rushing along against a clock. Unless you can keep doing actions to stall your village being burned or your King dying to some curse or whatever the "We must go!" reason is.

 

 

I disagree.

The clock is exactly the thing that is missing from many games. Most fantasy stories and movies have a sense of urgency... this is something CRPG's generally lack. Being short on time means that time managment becomes important.

It also means you can't do all quests in single run, as you'll sometimes have to choose.

 

I know completionists and power gamers dislike that, but they want the world to revolve around them anyway.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Hey! I'm the Realms of Arkania (or Nordlandtrilogie, as it was originally called) fan here. You stole my posting :p

 

Yea. I was meaning to play those for a long time. The problem with them is that I don't really like that quasi 3D presentation of all those early 1990s games. I only managed to force myself to play Eye of the Beholder series, and a little of Ishar. Well, at least in case of RoA it's only cities and dungeons I think, so perhaps I will play them one day.

 

And now on the subject. There is one thing I honestly hate in RPGs, especially recently. Every single NPC in every game seems to be a f...... seer or a shadow broker, to use a familiar term. My PC enters a tavern somewhere in the middle of nowhere and the owner yells at him:

 

"Ah. Norolim, the brave adventurer. Please, take a sit. How can I help you?"

Norolim: "How do you know who I am?"

Innkeeper: "Oh, I have my sources..."

 

Everyone has their sources these days. Wherever I go I'm immediately recognised by even a shoeblack, florist or beggar. How can I use surprise as an element of my tactics, if everyone knows I'm coming from miles away? So, please Obsidian, may we not have this in PE?

Edited by norolim
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Real investment in a permanent injury system - I'd love to see a game that made them interesting, serious and involved enough in character-building and the gameworld for players to want to keep going with their newfound disabilities rather than instantly reloading, a little in the manner of losing an eye to the doctor in Fallout. Your PC sustains a hideous scar across their face in a vicious combat? It's a vulnerable spot from now on, but it makes them look scary - they gain a few points in intimidation. Mangled leg? They limp a little more slowly but there's fragments of MONSTERNAME-blade in the wound that twitch whenever MONSTERNAMES are around. Permanently blinded? The PC loses almost all of their dexterity/equivalent points, but if you stick with your injury for an absurdly long stretch of time rather than getting it cured, eventually your character's senses develop to make up for the deficiency, gaining bonuses to perception, etc.

 

Stuff like that.

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Probably the best thing Bioware ever did, in my opinion, was the Geth and the narrative throughline about the dangers of imposing one's own morality on an entirely different life form.

 

"Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism."

 

Since BW didn't want to explore that deeply enough (goddamnit Bioware), I'd love to see PE take a stab at that concept in depth.

 

Yeah, Hive minds are always awesome. The problem with Geth and the Geth/Quarian dynamic is that it's basically Battlestar Galactica. I may be looking at this narrowly, but I really can't spot a narrative difference. It's all basically this writing style where you look everywhere to steal storylines and recognizable imagery and then just mix the results a little. Too bad there aren't any proper updates for PE regarding races. Meaning, if the next one's elf, that's not a good start. Or at least a regular one...

 

I never watched BSG. I'm not much of a TV person, really. I'll have to take your word on it.

 

That's the really annoying thing about BW games, that they touch on really great concepts, but never really follow through. The only narrative thread that I think they actually explored fully was Mordin Solus' ethics evolution (probably my favorite moment in gaming history, NGL). But things like the morality of a truly alien species, culture clashes, the nature of a battle between the cosmically small and the eternal, intersectionality of prejudice (DA2's biggest dropped ball, imo)-- I see BW bring light to a lot of fascinating issues, but very rarely do they follow through. Which makes me sad because I've literally had hours-long discussion about the aforementioned topics and how they could've been explored better/more interestingly.

 

So that's what I want from PE, I guess. Pick a handful of complicated concepts, and really dig into them. I'm tired of RPGs that go through "okay, here is your three hour plotline about institutionalized racism, now we're going to drop that entirely and go into another topic for three hours."

Edited by LucyZephyr
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I never watched BSG. I'm not much of a TV person, really. I'll have to take your word on it.

 

That's the really annoying thing about BW games, that they touch on really great concepts, but never really follow through. The only narrative thread that I think they actually explored fully was Mordin Solus' ethics evolution (probably my favorite moment in gaming history, NGL). But things like the morality of a truly alien species, culture clashes, the nature of a battle between the cosmically small and the eternal, intersectionality of prejudice (DA2's biggest dropped ball, imo)-- I see BW bring light to a lot of fascinating issues, but very rarely do they follow through. Which makes me sad because I've literally had hours-long discussion about the aforementioned topics and how they could've been explored better/more interestingly.

 

So that's what I want from PE, I guess. Pick a handful of complicated concepts, and really dig into them. I'm tired of RPGs that go through "okay, here is your three hour plotline about institutionalized racism, now we're going to drop that entirely and go into another topic for three hours."

 

I'm betting that is exactly what the Obsidian devs are talking about when they say the publishers remove/tone down some of the more mature elements, and what they'll be able to surpass here.

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Herald of the Obsidian Order

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I disagree.

The clock is exactly the thing that is missing from many games. Most fantasy stories and movies have a sense of urgency... this is something CRPG's generally lack. Being short on time means that time managment becomes important.

It also means you can't do all quests in single run, as you'll sometimes have to choose.

 

I know completionists and power gamers dislike that, but they want the world to revolve around them anyway.

 

Well I did say a compromise in my second line, there can be ways to buy more time (or for that matter, lose it). Does depend on how strict the timer is anyway, I'm assuming some worst case where the developer badly misjudges how long the majority will take and people end up in a blind rush to finish the game and ignoring content.

 

But then again, Fallout did it well, rush to get the WC and then ta-da : new antagonist.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I disagree.

The clock is exactly the thing that is missing from many games. Most fantasy stories and movies have a sense of urgency... this is something CRPG's generally lack. Being short on time means that time managment becomes important.

It also means you can't do all quests in single run, as you'll sometimes have to choose.

 

I know completionists and power gamers dislike that, but they want the world to revolve around them anyway.

 

Well I did say a compromise in my second line, there can be ways to buy more time (or for that matter, lose it). Does depend on how strict the timer is anyway, I'm assuming some worst case where the developer badly misjudges how long the majority will take and people end up in a blind rush to finish the game and ignoring content.

 

But then again, Fallout did it well, rush to get the WC and then ta-da : new antagonist.

 

Hahaha, I actually bought FO1 recently from GoG.com and I find the WC clock extremely stressful. It's likely why I haven't finished the game. Every time I go to that menu screen, the timer is lower and it gives me unfun tension. I'm the kind of gamer that searches every nook and cranny of the world. In Skyrim, I put in a good 35 hours of gameplay before even going to meet the Greybeards.

 

My fear is that if there is a concrete hourglass clock, that I'll be halfway through the game when it runs out and will have the restart the whole game because there's literally no way to make up for that time.

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I really don't want to have to eat and drink. Do we have to go to the bathroom too? If I don't stop and shave should my party grow beards?

Don't forget personal hygiene, Charisma goes down the more you forget to brush your teeth/clean your nails...

 

I think there's a limit to the realism of the game. I play games to escape the mundanity (probably not a word) of my life, and giving me a second platform in which to worry about where I'm getting lunch wouldn't be very much fun for me.

We should also use toothpicks(too much and you ruin your mouth hygiene) after every meal. Also make sure you always have a pair of toilet paper rolls with you, cause you know... you never know when nature calls.

 

Kinda pointless.

 

Taking a dump can be done at any time, anywere (and oyu don't need toilet paper) so it's no strategic consideration at all.

Similar, the basic hygene can also be assumed to be done every tiem you rest (or at east once a week). Those are all very simpel things that do not require special skills or anything. They have no actual choice nor do they change anything, so there's really no need to simulate them.

 

Eating? Well, I don't see you clicking on food to it eat it, but I do see rations being auto-consumed when you rest (again, abstracted that you can prepare a basic meal with the rations you have).

Getting rations? That is not that simple - epsecially depending on your enviroment. For hte most part it should be a problem to stock up in any town or village - however, if you are stupid and uprepared, huting (survival) would always be an options.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Since the gods in Project Eternity are seemingly going to play a role in the story, it would be interesting to have a mechanic similar to Darklands where you could pray to saints to get temporary boons (here saints being replaced with gods). This should have consequences however; the more you pray to one the less likely his/her/its rivals are to be willing to grant you boons, possibly to the point of a rival sending a champion or creature to punish you, etc. A faction system of sorts for the deities. There could also be negatives to praying; pray to a god of war for increased prowess could lead to a berserk rage during or after a battle.

 

I love this idea! Especially the part about rival deities sending creatures to mess you up. It would make it seem as if the deities were actually interacting with the world instead of just....being there....

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If there is a campfire when you rest ( a la dragon age ) make it varieble where the characters stand and what they do. Not every time the same positions.

 

That would great. Better yet, give them some reason for being there. I never could figure out why everyone was awkwardly standing around the fire. And where did everyone sleep? I'm okay with characters sticking to certain areas if I can figure out how they're entertaining themselves. Calm moments like that are really good opportunities for characterization. Would really to see it used for as much.

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What I'd like to see that was never done in a cRPG? Followers that live their own lives when they're not in the team. It's weird to see that after several days our former companions stay in the very same place where we left them. While they often have a nice backstory developed with some objectives they should aspire to accomplish, they just stay in one place and wait for us to take them back.

 

No, they shouldn't. They should take their path and join us again only when we happen to meet again. Meanwhile they should have their own adventures, finish their own tasks, accomplish their own objectives. And better if it's not scripted, but AI controlled for the sake of randomness.

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My wishlist (which is huge, but I can dream, can't I? :p):

 

 

1) Non-traditional class-stuff

 

I've said it a few times before, but I'd like to see more customization when it comes to abilities/skill distributions with regards to 'classes', à la skyrim.

 

That is: Instead of just having 'mage', 'fighter', 'rogue', etc as classes, have these be merely initial skill allocations instead of being rigid classes where there is no way to step outside of them, so to say. My question would always be 'but what if I want to be part archer and part mage?'. A way around this would be to have classes be templates, so to say, that you can adapt to your own wishes (the classes becoming more like backgrounds or 'professions' instead of rigid "you are destined to pick locks when you are a rogue, or cast spells when you are a mage", these being only SOME of the options, along with any kind of permutation that you'd like, as a ROLE PLAYING GAME player)

 

Related: if you DO choose to have these more rigid classes, then I'd at least like to also have an option to have an 'undefined' class in which you can allocate relevant stats and abilities yourself.

 

 

2) 'Time sensitive' quests and parallel missions

 

Again, I've said it before in another thread, but I'd like to see quests that are in a sense time-sensitive. 'A village is under attack! Go save it!' MainStoryline says. 'Sure!' You say, 'but only after finishing these 8 side-quests first!' Aaaand well crap.. The villain didn't wait around for you to go to the village, and has already destroyed it. Now what do we do to find more about his master plan?

 

Similarly, this could make for an interesting possibility in which there are 2 or 3 missions available, but you can only choose one, as the other ones will expire after this one mission. They could each yield different results and could have different consequences in the over-all plot (one would be an infiltration mission and give you important intel, for example, whereas another would be to save a town, gaining allies and a reputation).

 

 

3) Non-traditional questing

 

Instead of having each step of the way/plot conveniently highlighted in your quest journal, why not have the player search for intel, or even set up an intel network in order to advance the plot?

Why not have the game go 'alright, now you have no more clues and leads to follow; what now?'

Why not have a gameplay mechanic in which you have to pro-actively search for leads instead of them being fed to you?

 

Relatedly, why not have a portion in the game where you can find or trace no more leads, at all? And you'd have to wait for a while, or go to sleep, or whatever, and then have some kind of unforeseen event occurring.

This could even be neatly tied in with point 2) above: if you decided to save the village in favor of the infiltration mission, you wouldn't have gotten the intel regarding the next step of villain's master plan, and therefore wouldn't be able to stop the unforeseen event, but you would be forced to wait until it happened.

 

 

4) Tactics

 

Dragon Age: Origins-style tactics. Perhaps expanded. And awesomeness. That is all.

 

 

5) On morality meters and consequences

 

I say NO to morality meters! I say yes to behind-the-scenes, non-visible companion affection meters.

 

I say yes to CONSEQUENCES to actions instead of +5 Light Side points, with these consequences preferably happening in a spread out way to later in the story so that the "I don't like this outcome, QUICK LOAD!" scenarios right after a conversation or a choice can be avoided.

 

And by these consequences I'd prefer not to have the bioware-consequences of "Oh, so you chose to do X at the end of Mass Effect 2? Let's acknowledge it with one line of dialogue while railroading you all the way anyways!" And sure, consequences can be small (saving a child, then later meeting up with her parents who are very grateful and let you stay for dinner) or big (balance of power shift in a politically/ideologically conflicted organization or city resulting in you getting allies for the Final Battle), but they should be there.

 

 

6) Interesting or at the least intuitive/intelligent conversation/action-options

 

PLEASE do have interesting options. Don't just 'save the wounded enemy' vs 'let him die'. But give us the option to do something with that option as well (this ties in to the concequences point as well), rather than just 'I choose to do this for the light side points'.

We could save him and take him to camp, only to torture him for info later, or send in the cutie to extract information more subtly, or to just do nothing, yielding us no info at all (see? consequences! :))

 

 

7) Relevancy to quests

 

Whether it is a save-the-world story or a more personal story, let's at the very least have relevancy to side quests/story archs.

 

And of course, there should be quests that cater more to one kind of player than another ('please save my brother' vs 'go steal something'), and are more fluff-kinds of quests to spice up the world, make it more believable, and add RolePlaying value, but why would I go around the world saving everyone from their problems? I have no time for that! I'm on a personal quest. Why would I want to save the Elvish people from being enslaved? Besides, I'm just one man, what could I possibly d- ... wait, did you say you would support me in the Final Battle of Awesomeness? Sure, I'll help you! (see? :))

 

And for the love of RPGod, no 'could you kill 6 wolves and gather their pelts for me' type of quests, please?' (again, if anything, make that relevant to the plot)

 

 

8) Mature themes and interesting setting

 

And that includes companions and the like. Also, bonus points for Eldritch Reality stuff.

 

Plus, with one of the main themes apparently being 'Soul', this could make for a greatly engaging, interesting, emotional story. MAKE US PROUD OBSIDIAN!! :'( I HAVE FAITH IN YOU!! ;)

 

 

JM2C,

 

- Tim

Edited by TimB99
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One of my favorite ideas first appeared (AFAIK) in Neverwinter Nights 2: the "other" party of heroes. In NWN2, once you got a keep, a band of adventurers would start appearing and asking for work. If you wanted to mess with them, you could send them out on made-up quests and watch them get all beat-up. In NWN2 it was largely a joke, but what if it weren't?

 

Imagine showing up in a town and discovering that there were another group of heroes accomplishing similar things as you:

 

"Hi there, I'm new in town! Have any work?"

 

"Funny you should ask! Until yesterday, my basement was full of rats. But just yesterday, this lovely group of heroes showed up and cleared them out. Wasn't that nice of them?"

 

This could become a game mechanic: grabbing and completing quests before the "other" group gets to them. Eventually you could deal the party by recruiting some of them, killing them, convincing them to go home, tricking them into taking lousy quests, or just letting them be and continue to watch them snatch up your quests. Perhaps you could even manipulate them into doing all the hard work and then you and your party could swoop in to claim the rewards and credit.

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I created a stealth-oriented thread a few pages back (too lazy to find it) but something I'd KILL to see is a viable ninja/assassin style character build who specializes in lethal poisons as their primary "weapon".

 

EDIT: and to clarify, I mean pills, vials, syringes, etc. Not lacing the tips of arrows or blades.

Edited by TwinkieGorilla
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Betrayal at Krondor had a pretty great method for dealing w/ not only healing, but also making sure your party stayed fed. Healing was slow, and often meant having to spend several days resting (which was elapsed in game time in a matter of seconds), and rations were consumed automatically from your inventory whenever you'd rest. Rations could also spoil or rot if left uneaten in your inventory for too long, making your characters lose health instead of heal if they ate them. The day/night cycle was so drastic in visibility, that it really would behoove you to stop and rest in order to sleep until morning. These are some features I think would be interesting in PE.

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Wasn't this thread supposed to be about stuff that hasn't been done before?

JoshSawyer: Listening to feedback from the fans has helped us realize that people can be pretty polarized on what they want, even among a group of people ostensibly united by a love of the same games. For us, that means prioritizing options is important. If people don’t like a certain aspect of how skill checks are presented or how combat works, we should give them the ability to turn that off, resources permitting.

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One easy way to get a sense of urgency into a game without making it a race to a game-over screen would be having to deal with the consequence of the player dragging their feet, as was alluded to earlier. Race against time to stop the invasion of the countries capital and you took too long? Then make that one of the story branches. Obviously this can't be done forever as eventually the evil MacGuffin will destroy everything and nothing will be left, but it could be done a few times until the player is put in a situation they can no no longer get out of. I think Wing Commander did this pretty nicely. Fail to save that ship taking reinforcements to the planet? Looks like that planet fell and your side got pushed back, and everything just got harder. Screw up too many times and eventually end up in a situation that ends with a scripted death and a bad ending.

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The dyeing of clothing?

 

Even the old cRPGs let you do this, it's not really anything new. Just look at Baldur's Gate, you could outright change the color of clothing and such.

"Step away! She has brought truth and you condemn it? The arrogance!

You will not harm her, you will not harm her ever again!"

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