Epsilon Rose Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 That's true that a PnP game is largely in the head, but what about found objects? If there is armor with associated factions, then wearing that armor should cause a certain reaction to your character, no? I guess I'm thinking of how Obsidian handled faction armor in Fallout New Vegas, what you wore could have serious consequences and I'd like to see a similar system in this game. If people really want to alter their character's appearance, then hopefully a modding toolkit will be available, or the meshes and textures will be alterable with overrides (sort of like Skyrim does it). That's easy enough to fix. Just have them react to the displayed armor. In fact, I would argue that doing it that way is better because it let's display your aliegence to a faction even if their default armor doesn't fit your play style. No Chief Inspector, I will not wear the standard issue uniform, it does not match my unique sense of style. I mean black and white with a yellow reflex vest, really? Do you have something matching with my eyes? Quite the reverse, actually. It would be more like going "Hey Chief Inspector, you know how you're always sending me on extra dangerous missions? Well I sprung for some better body armor for my men and my self,but don't worry I made sure it looks like the normal uniform so no one gets confused". In fact,not allowing people to set their armor's cosmetics is more likely to result in your scenario as they out level the faction armor and are forced to switch to a more effective armor of a different style. Police does not work that way. They also don't employ beings who are orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else on the force. Analogies to real world organizational structures breakdown in worlds with heroes. The fact that real world cops don't work that way Is a terrible basis for an argument against including this feature.
beerflavour Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 First I hope Obsidian to keep sane levels in regard to itemization. Something more in tune with BG/NWN/IWD/PST. MMOs have really gone whacko on this issue. Concerning armour & looks I rather prefer it the realistic way where you have to chose. Prefer the ordinary clothes? OK, but these won't protect you like some real armor if there should be a fight. What I would tolerate would be having a tabard that will partly cover the armor. Maybe you want to carry a cloak or robe over all this? Changing colors of cloth garments (including tabards, cloaks and robes) and shields would be OK as well. What I didn't like with BG/IWD was that the paper doll's look was tied to the class.
Stiler Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 No. A big no. Why? Hero likes the sprite of the "Elite Black Knight" Armor. It's black, it's spiky, it's pure awesome. However, he just got this set of "Radiant Dawn Constable" Armor, which is less good-looking than the "Elite Black Knight", but has waaay better stats and really shiny. So **** that, he'll use the Elite Black Knight's sprite for it. Suddenly, quest time! While walking randomly at some cave, you've fallen into the "Pits of Dark Darkness"! Turns out the Radiant Dawn Constable Armor has a quest attached to it! You must navigate your way out of this dark pit and your only light source is the "Radiant Dawn Constable" Armor's shine. Apparently it's made to shine even on the darkest darkness. Too bad you ain't shining with that "Elite Black Knight"'s sprite. Time to reload. Well, ****. You're playing Iron Man mode and your last save was the time you've fallen to the pit. Hey, it might happen. I doubt that'd happen but even if it does, gaining a quest you'd most likely get a journal entry or something of note so you realize there's quest attached or some kind of clue, otherwise how could thee developers even expect someone to realize it's a quest attached? What if you sell that armor because the armor you already had had better stats? What if you destroy it because your inventory is full of better items?
a bear named spigot Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Not important. Want to wear your favourite outfit, even though you've levelled beyond it/found better? Go ahead, but be willing to sacrifice efficacy for it. 1
evdk Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) They also don't employ beings who are orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else on the force. Analogies to real world organizational structures breakdown in worlds with heroes. The fact that real world cops don't work that way Is a terrible basis for an argument against including this feature. That's pretty debatable. For one thing nobody says you have to be even remotely the most powerful person in your standard fantasy organization. And also of course that police has better or more experienced members. They either still wear the same uniform, go plain clothes (no uniform) or SWAT (just a different uniform). They do not buy their own kit at an army surplus store and spray paint "LAPD" on it. Edited September 27, 2012 by evdk Say no to popamole!
TrashMan Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Also It's nothing about what an NPC thinks of me, I didn't even bring that up. It's about how I want my character to look, rather then being forced to use something I do not think fits my character or looks good on him. I don't give a rats ass how you want your character to look. Adjust to the game and the setting. If Leather armor +1 look like X, then it looks like X. Period. You demonding that devlopers circumvent their own world is an insult ot the developers. Pay the price for the looks you want like everoyne else or use mods. Otherwise don't bother others with your vanity. Edited September 27, 2012 by TrashMan * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 I doubt that'd happen but even if it does, gaining a quest you'd most likely get a journal entry or something of note so you realize there's quest attached or some kind of clue, otherwise how could thee developers even expect someone to realize it's a quest attached? What if you sell that armor because the armor you already had had better stats? What if you destroy it because your inventory is full of better items? *ahem* As I was just saying, this is not the point. I addressed the same thing more simply directly under his post. hopw roewur ne?
Stiler Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 Why are you talking about police and groups? In most rpgs the main character/hero isn't part of any "group" or uniformed army but rather on their own adventure and they wear whatever they wish. Even if you were, I would think this idea would help you and not harm you. I mean think about it, if there are "Faction" armors or uniforms, you will likely find things better then that and then would have to either keep that old faction armor in your inventory taking up space if you wish to use it again for some reason (IE story elements where it would look more fitting) or just get rid of it and wear something outside of that faction armor look that you might like or it might fit within that storyline better.
Stiler Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 Also It's nothing about what an NPC thinks of me, I didn't even bring that up. It's about how I want my character to look, rather then being forced to use something I do not think fits my character or looks good on him. I don't give a rats ass how you want your character to look. Adjust to the game and the setting. If Leather armor +1 look like X, then it looks like X. Period. You demonding that devlopers circumvent their own world is an insult ot the developers. Pay the price for the looks you want like everoyne else or use mods. Otherwise don't bother others with your vanity. Is it that hard for you to post without being so disrespectful to people and to use such knee jerk reactions? I am not expecting to look "EXACTLY HOW I ENVISION" or think the developers must do this or anything. I am just suggesting to allow us to wearing armor that they put into the game and be able to make the choice to keep that "look" if we like it instead of having to drop it for a better stat item of the same type.
Living One Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')?
evdk Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')? To properly romance horses you have to dress like a suave gentleman. 1 Say no to popamole!
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 To properly romance horses you have to dress like a suave gentleman. I think I understand the concept behind the horse armor dlc now. 1 hopw roewur ne?
SqueakyCat Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Can we all just stop and take a moment of reflection in memory of this thread -- may it RIP. 1
Malcador Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 No wonder vanity is the devil's favourite sin. Sheesh. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Stiler Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')? It's not a lot of options we are asking for, but a simple UI toggle element or some form to take an already existing model and use it in place of another model.
Living One Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')? To properly romance horses you have to dress like a suave gentleman. True.Hopefully Bioware will deliver another truly emUlsHonallY enGajing romance. Oh wait wrong studio 1
TwinkieGorilla Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 It's not a lot of options we are asking for Even one useless implementation is too many. hopw roewur ne?
evdk Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')? It's not a lot of options we are asking for, but a simple UI toggle element or some form to take an already existing model and use it in place of another model. Make/download a mod. Do not waste developer time on vanity features. Say no to popamole!
Darkpriest Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 I am not sure how to treat this idea, so... So let me phrase it this way... You want to have developers use their time, to give us hand crafted items, custom portraits for them along with some lore background on how they were forged, and then you want to throw it into some dump, and get your generic look? What's the point of custom hand crafted items if everyone will just customize their looks? Geez... Well I will say it clearly... NO! Live with the choices. If the look of the item does not fit you, then don't use it... It's a waste of resources... either for the dev team to create the hand crafted items, or to put the randomization... actually I would laugh my ass off, if the reforging was available, but the item would lose all the powerful magical properties, leaving the item with only some basic enchantment... One does not simply reforge powerful magical items at whim... 1
Epsilon Rose Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 They also don't employ beings who are orders of magnitude more powerful than everyone else on the force. Analogies to real world organizational structures breakdown in worlds with heroes. The fact that real world cops don't work that way Is a terrible basis for an argument against including this feature. That's pretty debatable. For one thing nobody says you have to be even remotely the most powerful person in your standard fantasy organization. And also of course that police has better or more experienced members. They either still wear the same uniform, go plain clothes (no uniform) or SWAT (just a different uniform). They do not buy their own kit at an army surplus store and spray paint "LAPD" on it. No, it's absolutely not debatable. Not even remotely. The LAPD may have different types of cops, but they're all normal humans and in this world that means there abilities are going to fall into a relatively narrow range. Also, you do have to assume that at some point the pcs are going to be some of, if not the most, powerful beings in any organization they're a part of. Rpgs, by their nature, are about advancement of one sort or another. Consequently, the main characters advance faster than everyone else. Which is good, because part of the fun is seeing how your character grows stronger and becomes able to handily beat previously unbeatable foes. Similarly no one wants to be part of an organization were they feel like any of a dozen other mooks could be doing the same job when they could be out saving the world. Further more, swat is NOT just a different uniform, though compared to the possible differences in rpg Armor it might as well be. I'm not going to bother dignified the rest of your analogy because it's becoming both ridiculous and insulting. I'm also beginning to think your refusing to see the Forrest for the trees.
evdk Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) I do not know enough about the class or leveling system or about the organizations present in the world of PE, but to say that you will in the scope of the game become one of the most powerful members of anything is premature. You simply do not know the scope of the game. And of course SWAT has not only different uniform but also better equipment - what does that have to do with my analogy (besides you desperately trying to paint as a moron so you do not look like one yourself)? EDIT: I'm also starting to believe that we're arguing about two different things, but I'm not sure. Edited September 27, 2012 by evdk Say no to popamole!
Stiler Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 I am not sure how to treat this idea, so... So let me phrase it this way... You want to have developers use their time, to give us hand crafted items, custom portraits for them along with some lore background on how they were forged, and then you want to throw it into some dump, and get your generic look? What's the point of custom hand crafted items if everyone will just customize their looks? Geez... Well I will say it clearly... NO! Live with the choices. If the look of the item does not fit you, then don't use it... It's a waste of resources... either for the dev team to create the hand crafted items, or to put the randomization... actually I would laugh my ass off, if the reforging was available, but the item would lose all the powerful magical properties, leaving the item with only some basic enchantment... One does not simply reforge powerful magical items at whim... Err I'm not sure what you mean. How does being able to use one of their hand crafted items, find one of them you really like the look of and prefer it's looks over another and wish you could keep that "look" and being able to do so how is that a waste of resources for the developers (You will likely find more then one armor/weapon you like int eh game, but here and there items you just don't like the look of)? As far as "just don't use the item" well you try that, that's not a way out, it's not viable. In an rpg it's extremely diffcult if you were to try and take a lower lv armor and keep it throughotut he game, it's not an option (for anyone who actualyl wants to play the game normally and beat it ) to "just not use new equipment."
Epsilon Rose Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 I do not know enough about the class or leveling system or about the organizations present in the world of PE, but to say that you will in the scope of the game become one of the most powerful members of anything is premature. You simply do not know the scope of the game. As I said, by the very nature of the type of game we can make this assumption. PCs are more competent then normal people. That's why we play as them. I can literally garranty you that the PCs will end up as some of the most competent people in most organizations. And of course SWAT has not only different uniform but also better equipment - what does that have to do with my analogy (besides you desperately trying to paint as a moron so you do not look like one yourself)? Right, I'm just going to quote you on this. ...or SWAT (just a different uniform)... So, should I be classifying you as a troll or just intellectually dishonest?
evdk Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 BG had you hit the leveling ceiling at about level 7 - not too shabby but basically peanuts considering it's FR we're talking about. SO you do not know how powerful the PC is going to get relative to the game world. Ad the word nitpicking with uniform/equipment - seriously? Maybe you'd like to address the spelling as well? Ad my edit, which I don't know if you've read - we are talking here about the ability to swap whole armour sprites at will because having to trade a cool armour for a more effective one hurts your inner Versace, right? Say no to popamole!
BasaltineBadger Posted September 27, 2012 Posted September 27, 2012 Btw why are people asking for so much dress-up options when the first mod they'll download will be the 'nude mod'(followed of course by the 'dragon/horse **** mod')? It's not a lot of options we are asking for, but a simple UI toggle element or some form to take an already existing model and use it in place of another model. But this is entirely pointless. Armours have certain look to allow player to know which armour is everyone wearing. It would make as much point as making a tank look like a Jeep because Jeeps are pretty. You can't use MMO argument since it makes sense in MMO because other people look at you and you want them to praise your sense of aesthetic. Nobody look at your character when you are playing single-player RPG besides your girlfriend/siblings and they shouldn't be too picky.
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