Slavery

[Audron]

In this game there will be many civilizations in different stages of technological advancement. In history, such differences have led to enslavement by the more powerful. I was thinkign that maybe this game should reflect that and incorporate different types of slavery systems. What do you think?

Also, each civilization can have many flaws and qualities, this being just one of the flows of one or some.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Audron

[nikolokolus]

Needs the option for "don't care"

[vattghern]

selling annah into slavery was one of the most memorable experiences in PST. slavery should deffo be in the game

[Undecaf]

Yes to both. I think slavery, despite it's nature in the beliefs of our civilization, poses a fertile ground for finding culture bound grey areas of morality to meddle with.

[Merin]

I don't need slavery in the game... that sounds weird to want it...

 

but if they delve into the subject of slavery in a mature fashion, I'm all for it's inclusion.

 

If it is included I would like to see different cultures different takes and views on it.

 

Ancient Rome's slavery was nothing like colonial America's slavery, the obvious example.

[Nonek]

Yes, if it presents a more gritty and detailed world, god save us from the overused trope of happy medieval peasants frolicking in the fields. That's so far removed from reality I can't even concieve of how it was born. Diversity in the slaving traditions might be good as well, from the norse thralls who through hard work and acceptance could earn their freedom. To the ancient egyptian slavers who would bind entire civilisations such as the Mamluks to serve them on the battlefield, only for the slave warriors to rise up and snatch the reins of power from their masters.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

Yes to 1, because, well, slavery's an interesting concept IMO.

 

Yes to 2, because that houses one major reason with what people have tried to justify slavery. Difference. Also seeing how different races might be suited for different jobs, many slavery systems based on region, culture, etc. would be ideal to have and see.

[Leferd]

I believe Sawyer mentioned somewhere that there will be slavery present in the game world. It was a topic that he wanted to address maturely. That said, I hope modern western moral sensibilities don't color calls for its abolishment in-game.

[Audron]

The reason why I started this topic is because I am highly interested in the subject of slavery. I wrote an MA about the central issue ins lavery systems and have pointed out the differences a central issue can bring to the table by comparing the Ancient Roman slavery system, the Spanish Colonial slavery system and the British colonial and U.S. slavery system. I have seen slavey present in computer games, but I have yet to see a system with different cultures in different stages of advancement with different slavery types, and, as weird as that might sound, I want to see that. I am curious how such a thing can work in a computer game.

 

There are so many idead that could be implemented in a game like this, and I am very curious about the opinions of the community: if the community wants to see something like this, if not, or if they do not care and how important it is to them to have a real and belieavable system.

[Audron]

Maybe not abolishment in game, but an abolitionist faction or group within the game. A pro-slavery faction and an abolitionist faction, like in the American Civil War. Maybe not in the main quest, but as a big and influential side-quest concernng the main world and story.

[hideo kuze]

I'm especially interested in seeing different types of slavery.

 

For "civilized" countries I expect the 40h/week type of slavery

 

 

 

It would also be fun to try to abolish it on given countries (and maybe see a prospering country crumble because it only relied on it) or even become a slaver (and become a wanted criminal, or eventually build an empire on crime).

Edited September 23, 2012 by hideo kuze

[Tigranes]

Yes, I hope it is dealt with in an interesting fashion. Funnily enough, a medieval-fantasy video game with nonlinearity and C&C is one of the best mediums in popular culture that can show the social complexities in such a system. It also is a good way to force difficult choice on players if it's not ham-fisted into "hey we should totally kill all the rich people so the slaves become rightful owners of their labour and we have a happy socialist paradise and I get 5000XP".

[Thulean]

I voted yes to both. Perhaps it could even provide an interesting mechanic where after you defeat an enemy rather than finishing them off you could take them captive and sell them on the slave markets if you chose to play such a character. Of course if you took too many at once you would have to worry about them overpowering you or slitting your throat in the night.

 

On the other hand one of the possible companions could be a slave you freed from someone else.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Thulean

[Aedelric]

I want slavery in the game, so long as I have choices to fight it or outright stop it.

[Superdeluxe]

Slavery is what I was hoping one of those mature themes would be

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

Only if it opens the door for more excellent romance options from the fine folks at LoversLab.

[Zverd]

IT'S HAPPENING!

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HsVK92ep0UZ

 

 

More seriously, I think its would be an interesting subject for the game if we have choices to make concerning this subject that aren't only manichean.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Zverd

[molarBear]

one thing about the slavery:

 

if i am seen by the locals while i am in slavery biz then fine, make my reputation for that town a "slaver". otherwise i wouldn't like to be penalized for my slaver past or distant slave biz.

[hideo kuze]

Only if it opens the door for more excellent romance options from the fine folks at LoversLab.

the more you know.jpg

 

I guess that is why so many people are asking about the modding kit

[MinotaurWarrior]

I want slavery in the game, so long as I have choices to fight it or outright stop it.

 

That's really a position that doesn't make sense in a medieval context. What does it mean to free the eunuch slaves who ran the Ottoman Beuracracy? What does it mean to free the serfs who were tied to the land their lord owned? What does it even mean to be free in a medieval setting, when your life is foreit for anyone powerful enough to take it, when a king can strip you of your property and exile you from your homeland, when 80% of the population must spend their lives toiling in the fields for the other 20% to be able to do anything else?

[hideo kuze]

I want slavery in the game, so long as I have choices to fight it or outright stop it.

 

That's really a position that doesn't make sense in a medieval context. What does it mean to free the eunuch slaves who ran the Ottoman Beuracracy? What does it mean to free the serfs who were tied to the land their lord owned? What does it even mean to be free in a medieval setting, when your life is foreit for anyone powerful enough to take it, when a king can strip you of your property and exile you from your homeland, when 80% of the population must spend their lives toiling in the fields for the other 20% to be able to do anything else?

 

But it makes sense from a cRPG POV.

And having the possibility to do something and see its impact on the game world, to me at least, is lots of fun.

Edited September 23, 2012 by hideo kuze

[Mabster]

Slavery is a pretty common theme in fantasy literature and games, but it's always possible the devs have nothing to say on the topic, or since we know next to nothing about the world, it might not be a good fit. Still, it's pretty likely theme to be in featured in the game.

 

Slavers are really easy villains in a ton games, so if the theme is in there, hopefully it's not just 'something bad guys do', a cue for the player to dislike a certain group. Being part of a society where holding slaves is not considered morally apprehensive might be really interesting.

 

Freeing slaves and giving bad guys their lot, is still fun though. The whole experience shouldn't be too morally ambivalent--it's a fantasy game after all.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I want slavery in the game, so long as I have choices to fight it or outright stop it.

 

That's really a position that doesn't make sense in a medieval context. What does it mean to free the eunuch slaves who ran the Ottoman Beuracracy? What does it mean to free the serfs who were tied to the land their lord owned? What does it even mean to be free in a medieval setting, when your life is foreit for anyone powerful enough to take it, when a king can strip you of your property and exile you from your homeland, when 80% of the population must spend their lives toiling in the fields for the other 20% to be able to do anything else?

 

But it makes sense from a cRPG POV.

And having the possibility to do something and see its impact on the game world, to me at least, is lots of fun.

 

I agree that having an impact is really fun, but I'd prefer it if we had impacts that actually made sense, in conflicts that actually made sense. So, for example, say that we're dealing with a conflict between a top-down divine monarch who appoints lords who own serfs, and a germanic style monarchy where heads of households gather at Things and elect Lawspeakers and Shire-Reeves and Chieftans (who then go on to elect Kings / Emperors). Then, sure, you can side with the germanic-style state and think of yourself as promoting freedom, but while you're at it you're probably sowing chaos and instability, and you're not really changing that much. The heads of household will still probably have farmhands who can't vote, and the higher positions will still probably stay within one family most of the time. And what will most often decide how people vote at the Things and the other assemblies? The threat of force, and family loyalty.

 

Compare this to, say, the simplistic conflict we had in BG:II:SoA, where there are Yuan-Ti peddling children and pit fighters for the enjoyment of the Ultra-Rich. Some may prefer the latter, and that's fine, but I'd prefer the former.

[Sarog]

Yes I think it should be present in the world. Whether it is a major concern in the game for us to deal with depends on the writers really, but in a pre-modern world slavery should be present for authenticity's sake. Ideally, though, it shouldn't be the Atlantic chattel slavery that most of us think of when we hear the word.

[Agent_DZ-015]

Agreed that it would be an interesting dimension to the game world, particularly if there are cultural differences regarding slaves, and factions or deities (or at least some smaller groups in-game) that have a vested interest in slavery, either pro, con or other. Also, in terms of player choice, it would also be interesting to not only be able to kill slavers and free all the slaves (as per your typical RPG hero), but also options to become involved in slaving and profit from it yourself (at the risk of losing reputation with factions, angering certain companions, etc), or keep the system of slavery intact, but work to improve conditions, etc. Or free several slaves and offer them employment, losing some of your own money to gain benefits of their work.