classes? at first, none.

[NerdBoner]

I think if you're starting out as a nobody, a youngster or just some regular villager (w/e) the only real options you should have at character creation should revolve around 1) your current appearance 2) distribution of current physical and psychological potential (aka stats) and 3) whether or not you have "soul" power...and of course any backstory flavor options Obsidan may want to add.

 

But as for choosing traditional classes like Fighter, Mage, thief and Cleric etc.? No, it just doesn't make sense for a nobdoy to have training like that out of nowhere.

 

I'd like the prologue chapter to be at least partially centered around how you gain your initial n00b status skills.

 

do you learn thieving from a low level mook in from the local guild?

 

are you an acolyte of the village temple?

 

Have you signed on for self defense classes with the town guard?

 

or have you learned a few magic tricks from the crazy hermit who lives in the hills outside of town?

 

 

Make my skills come from somewhere, i don't want to be a farmhand who automatically knows how to use and care for sword and armor or can pick locks "just because thats my class"...

 

do you agree or disagree?

[alphyna]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't really old-school. I also don't think it's that hard to write a story explaining your character's training. Oh, and also I absolutely don't want to start as a random villager, I want my character to have some solid background.

 

That said, not having to choose your class here and now is a good thing because you never know how useful is your chosen class in a particular game. Personally I prefer well-spoken characters who solve quests through talking, and that always brings me to a mage/thief dilemma. What are dialogues in this game based upon, Charisma (which is more thievy) or Intellect? And while we're at it, is thieveng even useful, or do you become rich so quickly it's just a waste of stats? And if it's not classic DnD, what the hell do these 20 schools of magic even mean?

 

Yeah, I'm all for experiencing a bit first and choosing later, but somehow I don't believe this'll be implemented in PE. Like I said, it's just doesn't feel old-school enough.

[Volourn]

Disagree. It's assumed when you choose a class there's a reason. ie. Sorcerors were born into magic, rogues had oppurtunity to practice their skills, clerics were 'touched' by a god, warriors were in the militia. What have you.

 

What you suggest is not an optional thing in pnp; but to me I find it just an unneeded idea. It adds very little to the experience, imo.

 

Hopefully, there will be background options to flesh out how a character ebcame what they were.

[eimatshya]

Disagree.

 

I hope that we aren't starting out as a villager. I'd rather have us start on the road to somewhere for some reason. That way the game doesn't presuppose a background for us. And honestly, I really like having a character creation screen to make my character with. An in-game system, like a prologue, often gets tedious quickly after your first time through it. I don't mind letting players make up how they got their skills. So you start out as a level one warrior (or whatever); you can easily come up with some justification for how you learned your martial skills without having to play them out, and not playing them out gives you greater freedom of origin. You could be from a big city far to the east, a farm down the road, you could be an orphan, you could be a convict who escaped from a chain gain, whatever. The point is, if the game shows you where you grew up/trained, you lose that freedom of characterization. I say give us a bunch of written backgrounds to choose from, like in Arcanum, and let us fill in the details ourselves.

[eimatshya]

*EDIT* post deleted.

Edited September 22, 2012 by eimatshya

[Umberlin]

While I'm not sure this is fitting for the game, I'll admit that sort of 'earning' your class in games like Gothic II was actually pretty neat.

[nikolokolus]

Classless systems can work, but aren't there enough games with that mechanic nowadays?

[Delterius]

Classless systems can work, but aren't there enough games with that mechanic nowadays?

 

That's not the suggestion. The thread's is about, if the story has you starting as a civillian, you only get to choose your class later. Essentially, there'd be a prologue which constitute character creation, weaved into the beginning of the narrative.

 

I believe that's not a bad idea. But it can be irritating if you re-roll too much, given that the class system's going to have many choices.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Delterius

[Tigranes]

I wouldn't mind, as long as the process of earning your class is interesting. It's no fun if you spend the first 5 levels as a useless nobody, or even worse, if that becomes a lengthy tutorial-thing where you simulate the learning to become a mage by going through idiotic training things.

[Brishingr]

From a point of view one could start as:

 

Person who has some inate abilites---->event happens----> you gian your class.

[Zed]

I strongly disagree.

 

Your character should start with a class. Your character has a backstory already. YOUR backstory.

 

(I know Chris Avellone would agree after reading his Wasteland playthorugh)

(Probably Tim Cain as well because he's crazy about heavy character creation)

Edited September 22, 2012 by Zed

[NerdBoner]

well i'm not saying this process should take an hour or 2 like the origins part of DA:O...

 

the inspiration for the idea comes from a mod i played way back called Saleron's Gambit (the whole first adventure spans just the 1st level of your character)...in that mod you did pre-select your class but depending on your chosen class it determined who your mentor and "father figure" was in the first chapter of that game. There was a credible source for all the skills earned by the PC, not just a bit of hand waving flavor text and all the heavy character creation was still there.

 

my suggestion is that character creation involve the first few minutes of gameplay that fleshes out your training with a bit of interactivit. Example: if you wanna learn stealth or pickpocketing thats what your mentor focuses on.

 

it basically boils down to a small bit of gameplay interactivity for class selection that could take no longer than a few minutes and perhaps even establishes an early relationship with someone more experienced in the world and can be later used as a font of knowledge.

Edited September 22, 2012 by NerdBoner

[Zed]

but what if I want my character to have been a self-taught badass?

what if I don't want training sessions and a mentor?

[Krios]

Reminds me of the Origin stories, loved those. to starting as a 'no-class'

[Darkpriest]

Nah, I'd prefer a predefined class, and I would not mind some extra backgrounds done in similar way like the ones in Arcanum...

[Zed]

Nah, I'd prefer a predefined class, and I would not mind some extra backgrounds done in similar way like the ones in Arcanum...

I believe this is what they are planning.

[Sabin Stargem]

Personally, I think classes should not define a character - skills should determine the classes. So if you have many summoning spells in your arsenal, the Summoner class is unlocked and applied to your character to add a bonus that adds features that improve that aspect of the character. Being able to obtain multiple masteries should be possible, and some characters may react if you have a class that correlates to their interest. For example, a herbalist may discuss the recent troubles with the local flora with a player who specializes in alchemy.

[dlux]

I Like this idea, it is a bit different from the standard "choose stats before you start" type of game. Why can't you be thrown into the game and choose your class later, similiar to what we saw in Mass Effect 2 for example?

 

From what I understand a players soul is responsible for a large portion of your abilities - so you don't have to really learn or train, you are BORN with these traits.

Josh also said that the main character will be a vicitim of circumstance and view a great event... Maybe after this your soul can mutate/change or be unlocked?

[NerdBoner]

but what if I want my character to have been a self-taught badass?

what if I don't want training sessions and a mentor?

you know who was self taught? cavemen...they didn't do things too well for a looooong time.

 

even Batman had a half dozen of the best teachers...

 

and chances are we won't start out as a billionaire genius with an obsession for justice.

[Blackbeard]

but what if I want my character to have been a self-taught badass?

what if I don't want training sessions and a mentor?

you know who was self taught? cavemen...they didn't do things too well for a looooong time.

 

even Batman had a half dozen of the best teachers...

 

and chances are we won't start out as a billionaire genius with an obsession for justice.

 

How do you know your mage didn't study for years alone studying books for reference? It's a bit different to a cro-magnon smashing rocks together in an attempt to create a spark, and even then it's doubtful that it wasn't a part of learned culture as shown in existing chimpanzees. A lot of people teach themselves things, like learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just about using the resources you have available at the time, as opposed to hiding in a cave and trying to figure the whole thing out yourself.

[NerdBoner]

but what if I want my character to have been a self-taught badass?

what if I don't want training sessions and a mentor?

you know who was self taught? cavemen...they didn't do things too well for a looooong time.

 

even Batman had a half dozen of the best teachers...

 

and chances are we won't start out as a billionaire genius with an obsession for justice.

 

How do you know your mage didn't study for years alone studying books for reference? It's a bit different to a cro-magnon smashing rocks together in an attempt to create a spark, and even then it's doubtful that it wasn't a part of learned culture as shown in existing chimpanzees. A lot of people teach themselves things, like learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just about using the resources you have available at the time, as opposed to hiding in a cave and trying to figure the whole thing out yourself.

 

hey man, I'm not arguing FOR my specific approach per se...I'm simply arguing against having a class that has specialized skills with no reason whatsoever.

 

I want there to be a damn good reason why i'm such a good lockpick, healer or swordsman...

[Blackbeard]

but what if I want my character to have been a self-taught badass?

what if I don't want training sessions and a mentor?

you know who was self taught? cavemen...they didn't do things too well for a looooong time.

 

even Batman had a half dozen of the best teachers...

 

and chances are we won't start out as a billionaire genius with an obsession for justice.

 

How do you know your mage didn't study for years alone studying books for reference? It's a bit different to a cro-magnon smashing rocks together in an attempt to create a spark, and even then it's doubtful that it wasn't a part of learned culture as shown in existing chimpanzees. A lot of people teach themselves things, like learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just about using the resources you have available at the time, as opposed to hiding in a cave and trying to figure the whole thing out yourself.

 

hey man, I'm not arguing FOR my specific approach per se...I'm simply arguing against having a class that has specialized skills with no reason whatsoever.

 

I want there to be a damn good reason why i'm such a good lockpick, healer or swordsman...

 

Then come up with your own roleplay background for the character, it's what people have been doing for years.