Will there be a transgender option?

[Overspawn]

The more options in an RPG, the more playability and characters a player can have

 

If the game does not respond or react to these options in any particular way and thus enhance the gameplay, their inclusion is redundant and you might aswell just imagine these things. And I am quite sure this game will not be able to respond to every whim the players might have (nor should it).

 

In most CRPGs i've played ethnicity/skin colour/national identity has never been acknowledged, only the fantasy race (i.e. elf, dwarf etc).

 

Could you imagine a game not including different skin colour options for a character, and the developers saying "sorry we didn't have time to cater to EVERY possible character option...just imagine you're black."

 

Of course not.

 

Differing gender identities and sexual preferences shouldn't be excluded from a game just because they're not yours, or part of your understanding of the world.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Overspawn

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I wouldn't have a problem with an androgynous race. Because let's face that's all they are asking for. Maybe Obs could make one of their 'strange' races androgynous. Like Water Elves or something.

 

I'd want a playable female character so I feel bad saying no in this case.

 

The Asari are non gender and no one has a problem with them.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Longknife]

What I think we need to actually discuss in these threads isn't whether or not LGBT/whatever should be included in the game, but rather how they should be included in the game.

 

Realistically, while lesbians and gay men can be included without their sexuality being their central theme, much like it was done in New Vegas, this is a fantasy setting. I somehow doubt there's operations to change one's hormones and appearance to make them more feminine or masculine.

 

I mean let's get real here. Transgender operations haven't been around that long. Asking for transgender representation in a fantasy setting where guns are -just- beginning to be discovered? Very out of place.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Longknife

[Moonlight Butterfly]

What I think we need to actually discuss in these threads isn't whether or not LGBT/whatever should be included in the game, but rather how they should be included in the game.

 

Realistically, while lesbians and gay men can be included without their sexuality being their central theme, much like it was done in New Vegas, this is a fantasy setting. I somehow doubt there's operations to change one's hormones and appearance to make them more feminine or masculine.

 

I mean let's get real here. Transgender operations haven't been around that long. Asking for transgender representation in a fantasy setting where guns are -just- beginning to be discovered? Very out of place.

 

If you actually read the Op they ask for a non gender race specifically to make them feel more comfortable, I think that's fine.

 

My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe.

 

Since Shale from DA:O is actually one of my favourite characters I would be very cool with this idea.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[The Sharmat]

Could you imagine a game not including different skin colour options for a character, and the developers saying "sorry we didn't have time to cater to EVERY possible character option...just imagine you're black."

If it's within a geographic area in the setting that makes it very unlikely that you're black...then yes, why not?

 

Differing gender identities and sexual preferences shouldn't be excluded from a game just because they're not yours, or part of your understanding of the world.

Even accepting the above, there are far more people of various races in the world than transgendered individuals. When you go to lengths to support such a vanishingly small percentage of the population it starts getting hard to justify choosing that one over many myriad other underrepresented rare demographics.

[Concerned Reader]

Realistically, I don't see why the game needs to cater to your lifestyle choice explicitly.

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.

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On another, slightly more negative, note. People still occasionally freak out at Sex or Homosexuallity in games. Transgenderism won't be appearing for a while.

Just wanted to first chime in to say that it isn't a lifestyle choice, but rather an identity that you're born with. Some people are born a specific race, some people are born with a different brain structure (such as autism or ADHD), some are born with same sex attraction, some with opposite sex attraction, some are born intersex, some are born male, some are born female, and some are born transgender (which can more or less be thought of as an intersex condition of the brain). These are all different aspects of a self identity, and they're all things that the relative people groups, no matter how small, identify with and would like to see acknowledged within the greater aspects of culture. Is this actually feasably possible? Not really. But that doesn't mean you should shut down the threads that discuss it.

 

Second of all, this game is crowd funded. The money will be in their hands immediately. They aren't going to have to pay back a publisher. They aren't going to have to chip in part of profits to the publisher (Though I'm sure that GOG and Steam will take a small percentage). I could be wrong in this, but at the end of development, if they budgeted correctly, they shouldn't be in as big of a monetary hole as they would if they worked through a publisher without crowdsourcing. So yes, they can take risks. They don't have a publisher hounding them to make a "marketable" product. They can tell the story that they want to and they can include any themes that they want to. It's the same way with independant movies such as Paranorman or District 9. They were able to tackle subjects that would probably have been shot down immediately by a producer as being "too big a risk" for the greater market.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Guys...STOP A MINUTE and read the OP they specifically suggested that a non gender race be used. Somebody like Shale from DA:O

 

How and Why is that some kind of massive problem?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Concerned Reader]

What I think we need to actually discuss in these threads isn't whether or not LGBT/whatever should be included in the game, but rather how they should be included in the game.

 

Realistically, while lesbians and gay men can be included without their sexuality being their central theme, much like it was done in New Vegas, this is a fantasy setting. I somehow doubt there's operations to change one's hormones and appearance to make them more feminine or masculine.

 

I mean let's get real here. Transgender operations haven't been around that long. Asking for transgender representation in a fantasy setting where guns are -just- beginning to be discovered? Very out of place.

Go back a few posts and check that link to the Native American concept of Two Spirited People. It is entirely possible for a culture to acknowledge that transgenderism exists without having the medicinal technology to perform sex alteration surgery. Transgenderism is not just about genitals, though that's what most people seem to get hung up on. It's a deeper rooted issue of self identity.

[Undecaf]

The more options in an RPG, the more playability and characters a player can have

 

If the game does not respond or react to these options in any particular way and thus enhance the gameplay, their inclusion is redundant and you might aswell just imagine these things. And I am quite sure this game will not be able to respond to every whim the players might have (nor should it).

 

In most CRPGs i've played ethnicity/skin colour/national identity has never been acknowledged, only the fantasy race (i.e. elf, dwarf etc).

 

Could you imagine a game not including different skin colour options for a character, and the developers saying "sorry we didn't have time to cater to EVERY possible character option...just imagine you're black."

 

Of course not.

 

Gender identity and sexual preference shouldn't be excluded from a game just because they're not yours, or part of your understanding of the world.

 

Gender, race and skincolor are visual traits, though. By that, they already project a consequence for choosing them. You can't witness a sexual orientation without having it visualized in some way. And whose sexual orientations should be visualized and in what way/magnitude? Or should they all be? Mix and match? I think not.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

The more options in an RPG, the more playability and characters a player can have

 

If the game does not respond or react to these options in any particular way and thus enhance the gameplay, their inclusion is redundant and you might aswell just imagine these things. And I am quite sure this game will not be able to respond to every whim the players might have (nor should it).

 

In most CRPGs i've played ethnicity/skin colour/national identity has never been acknowledged, only the fantasy race (i.e. elf, dwarf etc).

 

Could you imagine a game not including different skin colour options for a character, and the developers saying "sorry we didn't have time to cater to EVERY possible character option...just imagine you're black."

 

Of course not.

 

Gender identity and sexual preference shouldn't be excluded from a game just because they're not yours, or part of your understanding of the world.

 

Gender, race and skincolor are visual traits, though. By that, they already project a consequence for choosing them. You can't witness a sexual orientation without having it visualized in some way. And whose sexual orientations should be visualized and in what way/magnitude? Or should they all be? Mix and match? I think not.

 

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

[Longknife]

If you actually read the Op they ask for a non gender race specifically to make them feel more comfortable, I think that's fine.

 

 

I addressed this several pages back.

OP also suggests that perhaps elves be made asexual, yes?

 

I have a problem with this because a race having no gender would have implications on their culture and on how they function and on everything they do. I somehow doubt Obsidian already planned to make elves asexual, so OP is basically asking for the entire culture of a race to change drastically so that a rather small minority of players can feel at home, even though that same minority would have an easy time feeling at home simply be picking their preferred sexuality and preferred orientation and playing that way, writing up whatever backstory they choose for their transgenderedness (a wizard did it).

 

If Obsidian plans an asexual race, by all means. However, Obsidian often does a wonderful job of making logical cultures. For example the languages of Zion are based on existing languages rather than just completely made up. To switch an existing race to asexual, I would imagine, wouldn't be just that easy for Obsidian as they'd want the culture to fully reflect that, and thus I'd bet they want to rewrite cultural norms etc to suit that.

 

 

Go back a few posts and check that link to the Native American concept of Two Spirited People. It is entirely possible for a culture to acknowledge that transgenderism exists without having the medicinal technology to perform sex alteration surgery. Transgenderism is not just about genitals, though that's what most people seem to get hung up on. It's a deeper rooted issue of self identity.

 

 

Yes I see that, but again that ties into my above response. I think writing a cultural norm or belief AROUND transgenderism is asking a little much. It's very out of the way, and I'm pretty sure it'd be very out of place, as I doubt Obsidian intends much of the game to be about sexual identity.

 

Though hey, perhaps I'm wrong in this case. It was supposed to touch on the theme of souls, right? The Native American concept actually ties in here...

Edited September 20, 2012 by Longknife

[The Sharmat]

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

A nongender race, done well, could be interesting if it fit the setting. Including a nongendered race simply to have a nongendered race doesn't sound promising though.

 

And the Asari are not a nongendered race. The in universe sophistry aside, they're an all female race created specifically for titillation. A blue version of Star Trek's green Orion women. The developers even admitted as much. I really don't think that's what the OP is looking for.

[Concerned Reader]

I'm going to go ahead and make a new thread, since we seem to have gotten laregly off topic within this one. Furthur discussion within this thread should refer back to the OP and discuss the themes presented by that post.

[Grimlorn]

Not to metion that trying to create companions or romances to represent all the possible genders and preferences is the surest and safest way to ensure that every person that ever plays the game gets to feel disturbed....no thanks, I'll pass.

That's one of the reasons why there shouldn't be any romances. Because as soon as there are romances, then there is every type of sexuality asking for romances with every single companion. It then becomes like Dragon Age 2. Just leave all this crap at the door and focus on what matters. Building a RPG.

[Grimlorn]

I'm going to go ahead and make a new thread, since we seem to have gotten laregly off topic within this one. Furthur discussion within this thread should refer back to the OP and discuss the themes presented by that post.

We don't need 2 gay threads on the front page. You can't just keep creating threads on the same subject.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

A nongender race, done well, could be interesting if it fit the setting. Including a nongendered race simply to have a nongendered race doesn't sound promising though.

 

And the Asari are not a nongendered race. The in universe sophistry aside, they're an all female race created specifically for titillation. A blue version of Star Trek's green Orion women. The developers even admitted as much. I really don't think that's what the OP is looking for.

 

No but they are the first thing that came into my head I understand that they are designed to be sexy, but I'm a straight woman so I certainly don't get titillated by them

 

I think one of the strange races obsidian have spoken about could fit this, especially a water based tribe or something. It could be a different and interesting break from tolkien-esque norms.

 

 

snip

 

The dynamics in a non gender race could be interesting to explore, no?

Edited September 20, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Concerned Reader]

We don't need 2 gay threads on the front page. You can't just keep creating threads on the same subject.

Because I'm going to narrow down the discussion to a different topic. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to talk about with reguards to sexuality other than "should it be included."

[Lostbrain]

What the hell ?

When you can choose gender of your character, why you need transexual option ? You can roleplay your character with this idea in mind.

Do you need more ? Do you need that the NPC recognize your character as transexual ? I don't think it's the most important work to do right now...

[IEfan]

ahahah 10 pageeees, youuu guyyyys. wasn't there a article on nerds threatening to quit DA if they didn't remove homosexual elements? Hell yea. Hell yeah!!! Rock'n'roll baby. Do it Avellone. Your only and only chance. Don't let the icky sweaty ****ing nerds get in the way. yeehaaaawww. nerds, meet life, life meet nerds *looks astonished at nerds*

[Undecaf]

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

 

I had to google that because I have no recollection of these bioware races -- the pictures I got look like blue women with tentacles on their heads. Imagine looking at that from high above, from the isometric perspective. Would it look like a blue woman with tentacles on her head or a non-gender being? What does a non-gender being look like anyway?

 

That's not what I was talking about, though. I answered to a specific post. I did not comment on the op.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Undecaf

[Bos_hybrid]

Your sexual orientation/life style should have no baring on the game.

 

Mentor: " Hold the sword this way"

PC: "I'm straight"

Mentor:"................."

 

 

Tavern Keep: "10 gold for the night"

PC: "I'm gay"

Tavern Keep: ...................

 

Quest giver: " Please save my wife from the pack of wolves"

PC: "I'm a Lesbian"

Quest giver: ............... "That's a on saving my wife then?"

 

End Boss: "I'm going to rule the world"

PC:" I'm Transgendered"

End Boss "......................... Me too"

*PC and end boss runaway together and live happily ever after.

 

I don't see the point in having to clarify who you are to this degree in PE. Besides do you have to roleplay yourself? Or whats wrong with using your imagination? Have are imaginations become so dead we need the devs to write out for us every single thing?

 

Or is this all just about a political statement?

[Ieo]

I'm going to go ahead and make a new thread, since we seem to have gotten laregly off topic within this one. Furthur discussion within this thread should refer back to the OP and discuss the themes presented by that post.

We don't need 2 gay threads on the front page. You can't just keep creating threads on the same subject.

 

|

v

 

Also, and I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere in this thread already, but I thought I'd reiterate that transgender is different from LGB in the LGBT grouping.

 

It is possible to be transgender and straight, transgender and gay/lesbian, etc. The identity and sexuality are in fact different things.

(snip)

 

Otherwise.... Given the direction everyone expects this to go along with help from trolls--

 

In before the lock.

[Grimlorn]

We don't need 2 gay threads on the front page. You can't just keep creating threads on the same subject.

Because I'm going to narrow down the discussion to a different topic. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to talk about with reguards to sexuality other than "should it be included."

Yeah lets make a LGBT thread for every little discussion about Eternity.

 

How should we implement sexuality in the game?

How should my sexuality affect combat?

How should my sexuality affect my companions?

How should my sexuality affect how people view me?

How should my sexuality affect the story?

etc.

[Monkcrab]

They specifically ask for a non gender race in the OP you know, like the Asari?

 

Why is everyone ignoring that and having a massive knee jerk reaction.

 

I had to google that because I have no recollection of these bioware races -- the pictures I got look like blue women with tentacles on their heads. Imagine looking at that from high above, from the isometric perspective. Would it look like a blue woman with tentacles on her head or a non-gender being? What does a non-gender being look like anyway?

 

 

Modrons are asexual/non-gendered, I believe! And Nordom was cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute.

 

You'd need a design which specifically avoids things that invokes the Bipedal Sentient Species With Sexual Dimorphism image, but it can be done. There's a lot of non-sexually dimorphic animals IRL to look for inspiration, too, if necessary.

 

The downside of this is that it'd make said species a little, er, exotic.

[Entropious]

I would recommend placing an option of changing gender at any one point in the game, so as not to imprison a character within a single gender.